User Panel
Posted: 8/9/2018 10:34:46 PM EDT
2 years ago I applied for 2 suppressors as an individual, each application requiring 2 finger print cards and 2 photos.
I go into my lgs with my newly acquired trust ready to apply for some more and he tells me I need 4 photos for each suppressor! He told me where each one was going but i wasn’t listening cause I was pissed I had to buy more. This man has been wrong before, is he sending my pic off to somewhere it isn’t needed or is he correct? |
|
[#2]
Download ATF E-Form 4 (5320.4) Revised September 2017 and read the instructions. Specifically, 2.d.(5). Then, download ATF E-Form 5320.23 Revised May 2016 and read the instructions. Specifically, items 1 & 9.
ETA: damnit @FMKeith something about a horse and water |
|
[#4]
For a Trust, yes, one photo, two cards.
The OP may be getting mixed information about an individual vs. a Trust application. But, 4 photos? No way. |
|
[#5]
Why are you paying for passport style photos? That's a huge waste of money- no need to do that. Take a picture with a cell phone and print them out. Or just have your dealer jump into the modern era and print them directly on the forms.
|
|
[#6]
Quoted:
Why are you paying for passport style photos? That's a huge waste of money- no need to do that. Take a picture with a cell phone and print them out. Or just have your dealer jump into the modern era and print them directly on the forms. View Quote They are never the exact size of a passport photo and often protrude off the edges. It doesn’t cover any info and I’ve never had a denial the five times I’ve done it. |
|
[#8]
I took a picture of myself with my cellphone against a plain colored wall, cropped it and printed it out on paper, then taped the pictures to my Form 4s. Has worked on my last three cans
|
|
[#9]
I just got my SBR stamp and the other photos were for the sheriffs dept. You no longer have to get the sheriff's approval but you have to send them the information.
|
|
[#10]
|
|
[#11]
Quoted:
Why are you paying for passport style photos? That's a huge waste of money- no need to do that. Take a picture with a cell phone and print them out. Or just have your dealer jump into the modern era and print them directly on the forms. View Quote |
|
[#12]
Quoted:
You, or somebody you know, has a smart phone or tablet. Download Passport Booth...it's free. Easy peasy. Line up the camera (DIY w/ front facing camera, or have an accomplice use the rear camera and take it for you). It lines up what you need: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/IMG_1406_PNG-636126.png Then you can email them, print them, etc. It even gives you the option to do six on a single 4x6 print. Send that to your local drug store, etc...or print them off on plain paper at home. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/IMG_1408_PNG-636132.png And yes...for an individual, you need two pics. One on each copy of the forms to the ATF (CLEO copy doesn't get one). But for an entity, one pic per person, and it goes on the ATF copy of the RPQ. View Quote |
|
[#13]
Quoted:
Thank you so much for the info on the app. However, I have 6 individual stamps and I have only ever attached a single photo the the ATF copy of the form. Never been an issue so far. View Quote The current forms are labeled ATF Copy, ATF Copy 2 - To Be Returned to Registrant, and CLEO Copy. I know my local dealer ignores all that and just does the first one and makes two copies to use. Are you putting a pic on just a single F1/F4 and not the other one that goes to the ATF? If so, do they send back the one with the pic? Curious if they make heir own copy of that one to keep (without letting you know). |
|
[#14]
Quoted:
I took a picture of myself with my cellphone against a plain colored wall, cropped it and printed it out on paper, then taped the pictures to my Form 4s. Has worked on my last three cans View Quote |
|
[#15]
Quoted:
I'm asking out of curiosity...not wanting it to come off as sarcastic or anything else. The current forms are labeled ATF Copy, ATF Copy 2 - To Be Returned to Registrant, and CLEO Copy. I know my local dealer ignores all that and just does the first one and makes two copies to use. Are you putting a pic on just a single F1/F4 and not the other one that goes to the ATF? If so, do they send back the one with the pic? Curious if they make heir own copy of that one to keep (without letting you know). View Quote |
|
[#16]
Well my lgs is persistent on it being 4 photos and won't take no for an answer. It was hard enough just talking to him without him interrupting me and telling me I'm wrong so I guess I'll just print out some more so he's happy.
|
|
[#17]
Quoted:
1 passport photo, two finger print cards, per suppressor. View Quote Edit to add; One photo per application/can. |
|
[#18]
Quoted:
Well my lgs is persistent on it being 4 photos and won't take no for an answer. It was hard enough just talking to him without him interrupting me and telling me I'm wrong so I guess I'll just print out some more so he's happy. View Quote Or tell him to fill out his info and sign the forms, and you'll take them, fill out your part, sign them, and mail them. |
|
[#19]
Quoted:
I'm asking out of curiosity...not wanting it to come off as sarcastic or anything else. The current forms are labeled ATF Copy, ATF Copy 2 - To Be Returned to Registrant, and CLEO Copy. I know my local dealer ignores all that and just does the first one and makes two copies to use. Are you putting a pic on just a single F1/F4 and not the other one that goes to the ATF? If so, do they send back the one with the pic? Curious if they make heir own copy of that one to keep (without letting you know). View Quote |
|
[#20]
Quoted:
Where is he putting them? That would be my next question...because there's a specific blank on the form for the pics. They're not just paperclipped like FP cards. Or tell him to fill out his info and sign the forms, and you'll take them, fill out your part, sign them, and mail them. View Quote |
|
[#21]
Quoted:
Good idea. He said he need the pictures for atf copy 1, atf copy 2, Cleo, and trust paperwork. “Wherever a space for a picture asked for, I place one” View Quote None of the ATF Copy 1 or 2 or CLEO of the F4 get one. It's a single pic on the ATF Copy of the RPQ. Take one pic per SN to him. Tape it on the form yourself. That's all he needs...so that's all you should give him. |
|
[#22]
It definitely used to require two passport photos for the Form 4. Now even passports just require one photo so I’m not surprised to here people saying it only takes one photo.
The guy probably misspoke because he was thinking two photos for each suppressor. |
|
[#23]
Quoted:
It definitely used to require two passport photos for the Form 4. Now even passports just require one photo so I’m not surprised to here people saying it only takes one photo. The guy probably misspoke because he was thinking two photos for each suppressor. View Quote Like Waylon said I should just send em in myself I guess. I guarantee he’ll probably refuse and tell me, he needs to send them in. I’ll let you guys know tomorrow. |
|
[#24]
Quoted: He definitely did NOT miss speak. I’ve asked him twice now, and he’s demanding 4 photos per suppressor (20 pictures total..) Like Waylon said I should just send em in myself I guess. I guarantee he’ll probably refuse and tell me, he needs to send them in. I’ll let you guys know tomorrow. View Quote In all seriousness, I'd walk in his door with five photos. Either bring forms already filled in (you should be able to handle the RPQs yourself) or ask him to have them ready. Put one photo on the ATF Copy of the RPQ for each one...and ask him to mail them off. |
|
[#25]
Pretty much what BW said. Bring a blank Form 4 and RPQ and walk him through each of the sections.
"See, here on the back of ATF Copy it says "Complete Only When Transferee is An Individual"" "See, here on the back of ATF Copy 2 it says "Complete Only When Transferee is An Individual"" "See, here on the back of CLEO Copy it says "Complete Only When Transferee is An Individual" and the place where a photo goes is grayed out" Try your best to lead the horse using baby steps... and good luck! |
|
[#26]
...and then for good measure, have one extra photo with double-side tape already on the back...and attach it to his forehead.
Hopefully he's open-minded enough to listen. I've taught a couple FFLs how to do paperwork by simply pointing out the instructions like Engineer suggests. |
|
[#28]
Wow OP. Is he the only FFL in your immediate area setup for NFA purchases? I realize your already stuck with dealing with this guy but sounds like it's time to find a new one for any future NFA purchases. Good luck getting this guy to realize you don't need all those extra photos.
|
|
[#29]
Quoted:
Why are you paying for passport style photos? That's a huge waste of money- no need to do that. Take a picture with a cell phone and print them out. Or just have your dealer jump into the modern era and print them directly on the forms. View Quote When I was a dealer 10 years ago, I snapped cellphone pics against a white wall and inserted them onto the PDF myself before printing. Never had a form rejected. |
|
[#30]
|
|
[#31]
So this is how it went down, mind you the whole conversation he is progressively getting louder and more angry while I was talking in a calm voice not trying to cause a scene.
Me- did you happen to finish my paperwork yet? (He said he’d have it done by last Friday) Mr. M - no, do you have my photos? Me- about that, there a bunch of people online telling me that I only need one. Mr M - No no no, I need 4 photos. That’s what they ask for and that’s what they get. Me - if you read the instructions, it says you only need one. Can I get them and mail them myself? Mr M - No you can’t, Mr. C has to sign off on them. Here! (scrambles to get paperwork)(throws papers on counter) see this box here, here, and here, all want pictures. [slamming his finger down on each box] Mr M - we’ll you know I’ll just have him sign them so you can just take them but we’ve never had one rejected so far. (I turn papers over to see instructions but there weren’t any) Me - do you have the instructions? Mr M - (gets angrier) Me - (I have my phone ready and start to read this off) Attached File Mr M - (silence) ........ well you know I have a lot of things going on and this is how I was taught. How about i call Mr C to make sure. Why is this even a big deal to you? Me - on principal, I don’t want to send my pictures off to someone who doesn’t need them, and the hassle of getting more. [at this point I’m walking away cause he said he’d call and find out and nothing more I could do and plenty of other customers were eating popcorn] I get to work and 5 mins later, I see that he’s calling my phone. I answered and he just wanted my DL info. I told him I wasn’t trying to make him angry. He said it’s fine, he just has lots of thing going on and just wanted to wait for the answer from above. In other news, I’m super happy I got my boat running after not knowing what the issue was for a month. (fail safe was engaged) |
|
[#32]
He just called again and was really sorry about the whole thing and said I (you guys) were right and legal but they can request photos if they please. He just likes to send them just in case. He said he’s busy tomorrow and I can finish everything up Friday.
|
|
[#33]
Quoted:
He just called again and was really sorry about the whole thing and said I (you guys) were right and legal but they can request photos if they please. He just likes to send them just in case. He said he’s busy tomorrow and I can finish everything up Friday. View Quote Hopefully your forms get mailed off Fri/Sat. |
|
[#34]
Quoted:
Where is he putting them? That would be my next question...because there's a specific blank on the form for the pics. They're not just paperclipped like FP cards. Or tell him to fill out his info and sign the forms, and you'll take them, fill out your part, sign them, and mail them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Well my lgs is persistent on it being 4 photos and won't take no for an answer. It was hard enough just talking to him without him interrupting me and telling me I'm wrong so I guess I'll just print out some more so he's happy. Or tell him to fill out his info and sign the forms, and you'll take them, fill out your part, sign them, and mail them. I'll also say that I've only had 1 problem with the 16 transfers I've done. I'll let people guess as to which transfer had the problem, and it's not a trick question. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.