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Posted: 1/14/2021 9:54:30 PM EDT
[#1]
LC varies lot to lot. In my experience almost ALL are longer than the trim-to length of 1.750". However, most of my lots have been less than the max length of 1.760"
The reality is in the AR, most chambers allow for pretty long brass. I was shocked when I found out that Black Hills blue box (remanufactured) does not trim their brass, most of the ones I got were over 1.760" in length, some of them substantially more. And they are still incredibly accurate. I trim mine, just to be consistent on my neck tension and crimps, but I don't obsess over it. If I was making blasting ammo and didn't already own a Giraud, I would not bother. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 9:57:25 PM EDT
[#2]
LC usually needs trimming
Federal is often under size and doesn't need to be trimmed. If you are using a roll type crimp you will need to trim all the brass to a uniform length. A Lee factory crimp will allow for case length variation. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 12:10:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Starting to reload 223 have a question on case trimming. Any ballpark on what % of once fired brass need trimming. Mostly LC. I resized and measured using a cheap pair of dial calipers and about 1 out of 5 looked like they needed trimming. Anything that measured 1.755ish or above I threw in the trimming pile But taking a few random cases from the no trim pile and comparing to new LC ammo a lot are still long compared to new cases. I'm think my calipers might be off. Waste of time to measure before sizing, as cases will grow when sized. LC once fired? 100% will need trimming, after they are sized. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 12:18:22 AM EDT
[#4]
In my experience, at least 90% of LC once-fired brass needs to be trimmed.
1.760" is the spec'd max length, but every manual I've ever seen specs a trim length of 1.750". |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 12:27:36 AM EDT
[#5]
All of it.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 12:29:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Folks DO load it without trimming.
Depending on your loads and your throat-dimension, you run the risk of pinching the bullet in the throat if you don't trim. Pinching the bullet that way can send pressures WAY up. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 1:33:40 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you measuring before or after sizing? Waste of time to measure before sizing, as cases will grow when sized. LC once fired? 100% will need trimming, after they are sized. Thinking I'm going to need a new set of calipers and probably a case gauge while I'm at it. ugh, thought of manually trimming 3k+ cases 
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:19:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hamel ugh, thought of manually trimming 3k+ cases http://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-tri-way-trimmer.html |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 4:57:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Trim all of it always.
Dillon RT1200/1500 ftw. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 7:45:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $105 buys a trimmer you mount in a drill/drill press that speeds up trimming. Unlike the competition, it also deburrs and chamfers. http://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-tri-way-trimmer.html That looks like a great tool. Trim chamfer and debur all in one on a cordless drill. Are there better ways in that price range? |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 10:11:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That looks like a great tool. Trim chamfer and debur all in one on a cordless drill. Are there better ways in that price range? Giraud is the better way! Three way trimmer under power is the only way to fly. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 11:28:30 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Giraud is the better way! Three way trimmer under power is the only way to fly. if I go Giraud, would eventually need at least 2 (308 and 223) and maybe even a 3rd (30-06) at $300+ Frankford would be <$200 for most any shouldered case trimming. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 12:07:35 PM EDT
[#13]
I trim all my 223 brass back to 1.745 with a Dillon RT-1500. By the time it needs trimming again I have lost it or the primer pocket is smoked.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 1:28:58 PM EDT
[#14]
If you're doing bulk, trim them all.
It either trims or it doesn't. No calipers needed, no questions asked, no problems. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:01:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're doing bulk, trim them all. It either trims or it doesn't. No calipers needed, no questions asked, no problems. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:25:31 PM EDT
[#16]
30% is over SAAMI max on first firing in my experience. I set my trimmer to min and trim them all.
With a nice trimmer, it doesn't take long. Probably one in 20 doesn't reach the trimmer blades, maybe less. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:40:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was looking at the Frankford Arsenal trim center. if I go Giraud, would eventually need at least 2 (308 and 223) and maybe even a 3rd (30-06) at $300+ Frankford would be <$200 for most any shouldered case trimming. Like anything else, with trimmers you pay for speed. That FA, what is the speed of the motor? I guessing it will be very slow as it has exposed tools. It probably works, but the speed of trimming will be very slow. Giraud it takes 10 seconds. |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 11:13:23 AM EDT
[#18]
I ran some numbers on case-length / overall-length / case-capacity through Quickload.
5.56 cases. 69-grain Sierra MatchKing bullet. Each of the three metrics causes an interesting coincidence of numbers: Each change affects pressure by just a RCH more than 450 PSI. •Changing H2O capacity by 0.100 grains •Changing seating-depth by 0.010” •Changing case-length by 0.010” |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 1:53:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I trim all my 223 brass back to 1.745 with a Dillon |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 3:22:28 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All after decapping and sizing. Thinking I'm going to need a new set of calipers and probably a case gauge while I'm at it. ugh, thought of manually trimming 3k+ cases A Dillon RT 1500 does come in handy |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 5:13:19 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Folks DO load it without trimming.... (Snip) Yes....yes... they do.  If you are going to case gauge every round as a QC/QA step, then you should catch the too long ones.  Single Pass Rifle Reloading (SPaRR for short) If it is just going to be whammo blammo, plinking ammo, in my opinion that kinda accuracy is good enough. EDIT: In my one SPaRR toolhead, I use a Redding S sizing die with a neck bushing. IIRC, the bushing is a .243 size. |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 5:17:43 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Dillon RT 1500 does come in handy I call the RT1500 a “force multiplier” Coupled with a casefeeder equipped 650/750/1050, trimming goes really fast and convenient... with a dedicated prep toolhead and a vacuum. |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 1:14:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like anything else, with trimmers you pay for speed. That FA, what is the speed of the motor? I guessing it will be very slow as it has exposed tools. It probably works, but the speed of trimming will be very slow. Giraud it takes 10 seconds. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Was looking at the Frankford Arsenal trim center. if I go Giraud, would eventually need at least 2 (308 and 223) and maybe even a 3rd (30-06) at $300+ Frankford would be <$200 for most any shouldered case trimming. Like anything else, with trimmers you pay for speed. That FA, what is the speed of the motor? I guessing it will be very slow as it has exposed tools. It probably works, but the speed of trimming will be very slow. Giraud it takes 10 seconds. I have the Frankford. It's not slow, but it isn't as fast as a Giraud on an HVAC motor  . However, the RCBS carbide cutting head speeds up the trimming on the Frankford quite a bit. The Giraud I used was lent to me by a friend. I contemplated selling my Frankford, but I do intend to start reloading .308, 30-30, and 25-20, so the Frankford is staying and I need to order an RCBS cutting head.
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Posted: 2/4/2021 9:33:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Consistency leads to positive results. I trim all of my brass on a giraud after resizing.
YMMV |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 10:23:03 PM EDT
[#25]
easier to just go ahead and trim with a Giraud, if it doesn't need trimming you broke even in measuring the case to see if needs trimming.
If it needs trimming it gets trimmed and you avoided having to measure the case to see if it needs trimming |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 10:28:30 PM EDT
[#26]
I had to go look for a video.
Pretty cool setup. Only downside I see is costs $100 for every caliber you load for.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 11:45:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had to go look for a video. Pretty cool setup. Only downside I see is costs $100 for every caliber you load for.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6o8qVN0uHAIf you already have a drill, you could also go with the Possum Hollow Qwick Case Trimmer and its toolholder (which has a hex shank so it chucks up nicely even in cordless drills or keyless chucks). The toolholder will also hold onto your typical hand held chamfering/deburring tool: Back when I was trimming brass with the Possum Hollow Trimmer, I used a Milwaukee or Porter-Cable drill. Each drill has a trigger lock. And each drill has enough metal in the front that I could clamp it in a vise with the trigger lock depressed, and “just let ‘er eat!" Put ear buds in, but my old skool ear muffs on over that... put my .mp3 player in my front breast pocket..., Had a 5 gallon bucket on the floor.... Grabbed a case off the bench top, shoved it into the PHT like putting a wooden pencil in an electronic pencil sharpener... when I heard/felt the brass was no longer being cut, dropped the case into the bucket at my feet. Rinse. Repeat. I wore latex or nitrile gloves. EDIT: because the cases still had lube on them. I would tumble the lube off...back then with crushed walnut shells in a vibratory tumbler. The nice side effect to that is it also knocked off any burrs, so I never bothered with running the cases through the chamfering tool, and then another trip through the deburring tool. I always figured the less actual hands on time I had with each piece of brass = more better. |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 11:53:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trim all of it always. Dillon RT1200/1500 ftw. I'm building a Honeybadger. Just ordered all of the parts. |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 11:54:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like anything else, with trimmers you pay for speed. That FA, what is the speed of the motor? I guessing it will be very slow as it has exposed tools. It probably works, but the speed of trimming will be very slow. Giraud it takes 10 seconds. The Giraud is great but it is hard on fingers. Especially if doing 300BLK. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 12:35:16 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had to go look for a video. Pretty cool setup. Only downside I see is costs $100 for every caliber you load for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6o8qVN0uHA
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Posted: 2/5/2021 10:57:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you measuring before or after sizing? Waste of time to measure before sizing, as cases will grow when sized. LC once fired? 100% will need trimming, after they are sized. Exactly my thoughts. LC is my favorite brass for basic AR stuff but it takes a fair bit of work between crimp removal and lots of trimming. If you sort thoroughly and do some other things it can produce good pesudo-match grade brass. ETA: i use a FA case prep center and tirm to 1.750 for bulk. For match i`ll use a lathe type trimmer as I want it to be a tad more precise than trimming off the neck. Fair warning: I don't actually shoot matches, just load certain loads to what I consider a worthwhile match spec. Often that may be more consistent than what actual competitors bother with; I am extremely picky when loading top shelf stuff to the point where finished loads weigh out to a very tight spec YMMV. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 11:44:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Anyone have experience with the wft 2 ? Caliber specific collets.
 WFT2 WORLD'S FINEST TRIMMER 2 ! TRIM BRASS! |
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Posted: 2/6/2021 8:34:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Giraud is great but it is hard on fingers. Especially if doing 300BLK. That’s the main reason I went to a Henderson. |
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Posted: 2/6/2021 9:58:31 PM EDT
[#34]
Nevermind...it was used.
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Posted: 2/6/2021 9:59:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s the main reason I went to a Henderson. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Giraud is great but it is hard on fingers. Especially if doing 300BLK. That’s the main reason I went to a Henderson. Yeah even with the Harbor Freight chop saw and jig to get close it's still hard on your fingers with the Giraud. |
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