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Posted: 5/31/2023 2:31:40 PM EDT
I've heard from a few people that 223 Wylde barrels are significantly more accurate than a 556/NATO barrel. I have shot a friend's AR with the Wylde barrel, and I agree it is more accurate.

However, I am wondering if that is a result of the twist rate or the chambering itself?

Is there any point in getting a Wylde barrel that is 1/7? I can easily get one at my LGS. Is it better to order a 1/8 or 1/9?

Rifle is expected to be a general purpose, up to 300 yards.

Thank you to everyone who can help me with this decision.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 2:47:21 PM EDT
[#1]
There’s no magic chamber or twist. Wylde is just a compromise for both 223 and 556. People worry about specs when the quality of work is more important.

What bullets are you going to be shooting? That’s what you need to worry about with twist. A good 1/8 or 1/7 will shoot just about everything you’d have loaded in an ar.


Link Posted: 5/31/2023 2:59:11 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm mostly shooting just regular 55 or 62 grain.

I have a PSA 16" 1/7 556 barrel currently. It's not very accurate past 150 yards.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 3:11:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Broad strokes. Never 100%.

Projectiles over 60..ish grains tend to be more stable for longer distances from more twist.

Plenty of people have 1:9 barrels that shoot 62-64 grain out to 300-400 yards just fine. Others bitch they have keyholes at 250.
Nearly everyone that uses 223/556 projectile 65..ish grains and up says they benifit from a 1:8 or 1-7.

All bullets become unstable at some point along the trajectory curve. They have to. The ass end weighs more than the pointy end. Spin slows to a point a yaw is induced. Once that happens.  
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 3:45:41 PM EDT
[#4]
The NATO 5.56 chamber is very roomy. Makes for great cycling reliability, but has very poor accuracy potential.

The Wylde chamber is a great compromise. It’s tight enough for good accuracy, but it isn’t as temperamental as a .223 match chamber.

Would I give Wylde chambers to the infantry? No.
Would I give Wylde chambers to the DMs? Yes. Keep it clean and it will run fine.

I want a Wylde chamber and 1:7 on any AR I plan to use beyond 300.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 3:54:10 PM EDT
[#5]
JMHO, but the ultimate general purpose BBL 16 specification of optimized settings, is the FAXON Gunner 16" Match version
 

SS which cuts easier for match use, Malonite to harden it up, Wylde chamber, because there is no reason to use any other chamber, 1/8 twist, which Is the optimal general purpose twist rate, and common High Power competitor speed, (if faster is better, why are we not running 1/5?).  BBL Contour cut is strong where it needs to be, and thin and light where it doesn't matter.  5R offset rifling, for better controlled non-opposing rifling engraving.  And cryo treated for stress relief, giving some POI hot or cold, and quite good accuracy.  Why this barrel spec is not the standard Default spec, is beyond me.  It's not like 1/8, wylde, rifling profile, or the countour costs any different to do.   Most people run M4 profile 5.56 chambered 1/7 twist with opposed rifleing, which works - but is sub-optimal in every spec on the page.

So to answer your question - yes, Wylde 1/8 is my own personal recommendation.

Others opinions vary - that one is mine, and in field and on paper, pleases me the most in handling and performance.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 3:59:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Supposedly use less twist for heavy bullets and longer barrels.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 4:31:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 5:57:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
JMHO, but the ultimate general purpose BBL 16 specification of optimized settings, is the FAXON Gunner 16" Match version
 

SS which cuts easier for match use, Malonite to harden it up, Wylde chamber, because there is no reason to use any other chamber, 1/8 twist, which Is the optimal general purpose twist rate, and common High Power competitor speed, (if faster is better, why are we not running 1/5?).  BBL Contour cut is strong where it needs to be, and thin and light where it doesn't matter.  5R offset rifling, for better controlled non-opposing rifling engraving.  And cryo treated for stress relief, giving some POI hot or cold, and quite good accuracy.  Why this barrel spec is not the standard Default spec, is beyond me.  It's not like 1/8, wylde, rifling profile, or the countour costs any different to do.   Most people run M4 profile 5.56 chambered 1/7 twist with opposed rifleing, which works - but is sub-optimal in every spec on the page.

So to answer your question - yes, Wylde 1/8 is my own personal recommendation.

Others opinions vary - that one is mine, and in field and on paper, pleases me the most in handling and performance.
View Quote



Agreed but I prefer the 18 and 20 inch versions myself. I would like to pick up one their 14.5's pencil barrels with the Slim FH soon.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 9:26:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm mostly shooting just regular 55 or 62 grain.

I have a PSA 16" 1/7 556 barrel currently. It's not very accurate past 150 yards.
View Quote

It's not accurate or the ammo you're shooting in it isn't accurate? Most of the 55 and 62 is crap for accuracy.
Link Posted: 5/31/2023 10:50:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It's not accurate or the ammo you're shooting in it isn't accurate? Most of the 55 and 62 is crap for accuracy.
View Quote


If shooting at an 8" plate at 250 yards...would you expect to be able to hit it using 55 grain "cheap stuff?
Honest question. I don't quite know what is an appropriate standard.
Hence, my question about if I'm wasting my time in ordering a Wylde 1/8 barrel.
Link Posted: 6/1/2023 12:01:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If shooting at an 8" plate at 250 yards...would you expect to be able to hit it using 55 grain "cheap stuff?
Honest question. I don't quite know what is an appropriate standard.
Hence, my question about if I'm wasting my time in ordering a Wylde 1/8 barrel.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:

It's not accurate or the ammo you're shooting in it isn't accurate? Most of the 55 and 62 is crap for accuracy.


If shooting at an 8" plate at 250 yards...would you expect to be able to hit it using 55 grain "cheap stuff?
Honest question. I don't quite know what is an appropriate standard.
Hence, my question about if I'm wasting my time in ordering a Wylde 1/8 barrel.

3 MOA is pretty close to what I'd expect but I might not bet my life on it if a guarantee is what you are after. If you want better than that you need to use better ammo to start with.

As I mentioned twist and chamber is just a spec and not an indicator of quality. A crappy barrel could have a Wylde chamber and 1/8 twist.
Link Posted: 6/1/2023 8:51:13 AM EDT
[#12]
anecdote.. when we started shooting the Ft Benning 3 gun matches, the sniper range targets ranged out to 420m or so, and for other than the first year were MGM 10" flash targets...my upper was a RRA 16" mid with 1/8 , topped with a Gulf War vet TA01 4x32 ACOG, RRA NM trigger, A1 stock and Enidine hydraulic buffer....I had obtained a 1000 rd lot of S&B M193 55g NATO cross and circle head stamp... in practice it would often shoot under 5" at 400m off a bag... when that 1000 rd lot was gone, a second 1000 lot of S&B 55 grain, without the NATO head stamp, would shoot closer to 10" at 400m.... Australian Outback loaded 69 Sierra Match Kings were used after that for anything longer than 200m
Link Posted: 6/1/2023 10:46:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Thanks for the replies!
Link Posted: 6/3/2023 8:19:13 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 6/3/2023 12:35:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 6/3/2023 2:23:06 PM EDT
[#16]
.223 wylde 1:8 is my preferred setup. That being said if your not going to shoot quality ammo it's all a moot point. (I didn't read the other responses so this is likely echo'd many times over lol)
Link Posted: 6/3/2023 2:55:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The cost of a great barrel is less than the cost of ammunition over its life.


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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's no magic chamber or twist. Wylde is just a compromise for both 223 and 556. People worry about specs when the quality of work is more important.

What bullets are you going to be shooting? That's what you need to worry about with twist. A good 1/8 or 1/7 will shoot just about everything you'd have loaded in an ar.




This... I have plenty of 1n7 5.56 chambered barrels that shoot known to be good ( accurate ) ammo.

And the quality ( consistently ) of the barrel manufacturer matters much more then what the  "spec sheet" says.

If TRIARC would ever produce more 14.5" and 16" barrels, I would suggest one of those... or a Criterion CORE.  

IMHO, spending more for a quality barrel, is a far better investment then spending that same money on ammo, trying to get a lesser barrel brand shoot to your expectations.


The cost of a great barrel is less than the cost of ammunition over its life.



Hugely. I always bring that up when people start talking about burning up barrels even though they probably never will
Link Posted: 6/3/2023 3:20:21 PM EDT
[#18]
1:8 has done great shooting ball ammo.
Link Posted: 6/4/2023 3:39:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Ok.  Its going to be all about ammo quality if you want to shoot tight groups.

Example:  Here are two of my 16" barrels.

1.  16" 5.56 NATO chamber, 1:9 twist, nitride treated 4140 steel.  This is a common rack grade barrel.

2.  Genuine SEAL Recce Lilja 16" (closer to 17), Wylde chamber, 1:8 twist, stainless.  This is a match/benchrest quality barrel,

The first barrel cost about $80-$90 if I recall

The second about $500 straight from Lilja.

With bulk 55gr or 62gr 5.56 ammo most people stock pile (M193 or M855) there is little difference in accuracy.  Both shot about 2.5-3 MOA.  The 1:8 Lilja will stabilize and shoot any bullet weight that will cycle through the magazine.  The 1:9 twist NATO 16" cannot stabilize ling bullets.  Bullets like the 77gr or heavier will turn sideways and keyhole with groups that sometimes miss the target altogether.  If you plan to shoot 55gr or 62gr no problem with 1:9 twist, but heavier bullets over about 67-69 grains may have terrible accuracy.  Get 1:8 or 1:7 twist.

Now, lets put match grade ammo in those two barrels.  I have handloaded 52gr and 77grain Berger match bullets in Lapua match cases, benchrest prepped, match primers and carefully worked up loads using partucular powders suited for each bullet weight.

1.  The first rifle with the NATO chamber, rack grade shoots much tighter groups, right at about 1.1 to 1.3 MOA with the 52gr bullet.  It cannot shoot the 77gr because the bullet destabilizes.  I can shoot Berger 69 grain bullets in it with similar results-about 1.2 MOA.

2.  Now, the Wylde chambered 1:8 twist match Lilja:  the groups are typically .5 MOA, sometimes as small as .3 MOA with both the Berger bullets, especially the flat base 53gr.

Conclusion:  Bulk ammo will only get you, at best 2.5 MOA regardless of barrel chamber or twist.

Match grade ammo is needed to approach MOA.  Even most inexpensive NATO barrels with loose chambers can shoot very well, approaching MOA with good match ammo.  Match barrels with match grade ammo can get deeply sub MOA.
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