I have a 22 TCM rifle with one of those crappy bores.  I've read all the threads on 22TCM.net, but I have not gotten any response while trying to register.... waiting on a moderator to approve for a couple weeks.

I bought a 1/9 0.224" stainless blank from Green Mountain to profile it to match a 22LR Winchester 52 sporter profile.

I want to install it and short chamber it with a 223 Improved reamer I already have, instead of renting a 22 TCM reamer and GO gage, and be able to shoot standard 22 TCM rounds in it.  I can make resizing dies, so no problem there.

Does anyone have any experience with something like this?

I haven't used a .223 Improved reamer for .22TCM or any variant, but I have taken the barrels off the bolt action .22TCM rifles. They all had the most blue LocTite I've seen used on a barrel, period. You'll want to really heat that barrel up with a heat gun quite thoroughly, and then the barrel comes off easily. The first one I did, I didn't heat enough and had a bear of a time removing the barrel. I ended up making a relief cut in the shoulder and using brute force, and that's when I saw the overwhelming amount of LocTite on the threads.

I hope that helps out, at least a bit.

I know a guy who did this with a wildcat round which is just a hair longer than the tcm (1.15" case) he also had to use a chucking reamer to open the neck a hair. the tcm is according to that drawing is .002" thicker than .223 brass which could lead to some dangerous pressures if the bullet can't release.

with the improved cartridge there's less case taper so you might get lucky, it could also end up to snug at the base so you'll have to see what happens. maybe chamber a piece of scrap first? you could always thread that piece and use it as a forming die then maybe a cut down .223ai die as the final FL sizer?

Thanks, guys, that is a lot to think about and verify.

First things first, that barrel had to come off.  After 125 rounds, wasting ammo was not going to help this rifle.

I don't think there was more than 50 ft-lbs of torque, and there was no hard start here.  Just started twisting on my wrench and torque got less and less until the barrel was off.  No threadlocker here, just a gummy rubber cement goo on the barrel threads.

As the barrel came off, goo and all.  What the first pic does not show is scarring on the breech end where the bolt nose jammed against the barrel.  This likely accounts for the hard as hades bolt lift with factory loads.  You can see the raised goo on the breech end at the end of the bolt rotation.  No polished radius on the chamber entrance as is critical when making an AR barrel - just sharp edge steel without burrs.

The 'scarring' on the barrel exterior is just aluminum smearing from my barrel wrench inserts that comes off with WD-40 and fine steel wool.



A bit of WD-40 and a wire brush.  This is some of the worst machine work I've seen that I have not done myself.

The thread relief measured 0.260", the torque shoulder is as horrible as it looks, and the thread relief shank is 0.669" towards the breech end at the threads, and 0.638" diameter at the torque shoulder.  I guess the huge "thread relief" is relief area for a threading die.  That would explain the extra long receiver ring.  Lowered machine operator hours per unit helps reduce costs per unit, but that silly scallop on the receiver looks to be more machine work than by not single threading this...  Huh...

The reduced diameter area is 1.275" long, with 0.745" OD threads at what looks like 20 tpi (thread pitch gage missing somewhere).  Believe it or not, but the barrel threads were a close fit to the receiver.



The bare receiver, ~1.205" OD IIRC, cleaned up with WD-40.  There is a long barrel thread.  Too bad the first 1/4" is wasted by the huge thread relief. The receiver looks to be of a higher machining standard than the barrel.

I am thinking of machining off that scallop on the front of the receiver face.  It will help balance the length of the receiver ring and look better with my 1.050" round blank.  I need to think that one through and make a mock up first.

yikes that is pretty rough! should be night and day difference. i'll attach a photo of the .223 short improved for visual reference.


now you've got me thinking too....a 22 tcm improved would give me roughly the same capacity as the .223 short i'm running yet would allow me more room for longer bullets in the ppsh mags...hmm doesn't help that between my 17 super jet reamer and the .223 short I could make it work if I got a larger pilot for the jet. it has the same .371 30' shoulder i'm after.

Barrel came in the mail.  Instead of stainless, it is chrome-moly.  I paid the chrome-moly price, so oh well.  It will work well all the same.

Found my thread pitch gage set. Instead of a 3/4" x 20,  it looks like an M19x1.5 thread.  Pretty uncommon.  Fortunately a guy down the street has an EMCO 11x36 metric lathe.  After he gets done making some Cat parts, I can thread this barrel on his lathe.

I am thinking of cutting back the factory barrel and experimenting with that in the meantime.  Given how wretched the bore is on that barrel, it may be a wasted effort.

The reason I went with the 1/9 224 cal barrel is to play around with heavier and more streamlined bullets, up to, say, 60 grains.  I like the 20 cal wildcat idea.  I did not consider a smaller bore rifle, which would be a better match to this small case.

I took a short look at chamber neck dimensions between the TCM and the 223 improved.  The TCM case necks are an honest 0.015" thick on the half dozen TCM cases I measured compared to ~0.0115 - 0.013" on standard 223 brass, leaving only 0.002" room if I used the 223 improved reamer as is.  That is not a very statistically valid sample, and down into the prepped case/match chamber territory.  This may be fixed with a simple chucking reamer if I need to - only need to open up the neck by ~0.002-3".

If this little experiment does not work, I can cut 1 1/4" off the breech and start over.

In the meantime, I cut down that receiver.  This looks much better.  I'll put a larger radius on the face later.

The threads are different between different production runs... along with better/worse machining. No wonder they didn't make that many.

Yes, a proper recoil lug could make a difference.  The recoil surface in the factory rifle, in theory, is a cylindrical surface on the magazine housing/trigger assembly block just ahead of the rear guard screw.  As generous as the inletting is, there is no contact with the stock here.  I'm going to be busy this next week and may not have much shop/range time.

The improved reamer is much tighter than the factory TCM chambering.  This is thick brass at the case shoulder and does not fill out very well.

First three rounds fired:

did you open up the neck with a chucking reamer yet? I would error on the side of caution with that before you end up with some out of spec brass that has too thick of a neck and doesn't want to release the bullet. I think you know the outcome of that.

looks like some annealing would be good but with the case so short I'd be afraid of the web softening. worried about the same with my 17 Mamba wildcat that I have in the works. its still off the 1.15" case but 30' shoulder, .371 @ shoulder. these tiny cases are fun and the performance with so little powder is amazing. the 223 short is getting 3260ft/sec with 13.5gr of lil gun with a 40gr v-max and only an 18" barrel. best part is the report is on par with a 22 mag.

Been busy this last month, turned down that job offer....  This thread is getting longer than I intended, but 22tcm.net won't activate my account.  Contact an Administrator, somehow.

The action and barrel was 3/4"x 16 tpi after all.  It turns out my thread pitch gage 16 tpi leaf is WRONG.  It is between 15 and 16 tpi, but it is not a 1.5mm thread pitch either.  WTF?  I thought these gage leaves were punched from sheet stock.  I've used this gage set for 15 years now and did not suspect any errors.  I cut a practice plug on my lathe at 16 tpi and it fit perfectly.  My neighbor confirmed my plug was a true 16 tpi, too, with his tools.

Anyways, there is about 0.003" clearance between my case neck and loaded ammo.  A bullet is a hard push fit into a fired case. I'll make a "plunk gage" for the case neck  and check each reload until I ream out the case neck.  This is about the clearance limit I am comfortable with.  Still in the experimental mode.

I started off making a recoil lug out of 3/32" A2 steel.  While the thickness is more than sufficient for this dinky cartridge, it did not look right.  I ordered 1/4" A2 instead and made this with my favorite Armstrong mill, a 14" lathe file.  I started off by drilling and boring out the barrel hole, then making a filing guide to round off the top round of the recoil lug.  The sides have about 2 degrees of draft to prevent locking the lug into bedding compound.  I used lots of layout fluid to watch where I was going.  I may or may not finish this project before getting around to hardening and tempering it.



I cleaned up the front of the reciever and installed it to the receiver, but not torqued yet.  Looks good.  I'll finish ream the chamber after torqueing.



Still need to profile and slightly shorten the barrel, 24 1/2" long.  Surprisingly, it does not feel excessively muzzle heavy to me.  It balances on the forearm well enough, but I was thinking of a 1903 barrel profile look.  Still thinking it over before profiling and inletting.



I'll add some more odds and ends to this rifle over time.

The last major part of this project is to trial using a Korean M1 Carbine magazine from Gunbroker in place of that shortened doublestack 1911 magazine to allow longer seated bullets as well as using factory 22 tcm.  I'll see how well it feeds or not feeds with standard 22 tcm and improved before replacing the trigger/magazine well.

nice looking good

@Elwood_Blues

(Late to the party as usual)

Had a few questions: You mentioned going with longer, heavier bullets. Are you intending on sticking with the OEM magazine?

I am modding a early Savage Axis 223. Going to chop and set back the light weight barrel which is a 1-12 IIRC. For feeding with longer bullets my plan was to make a magblock to use Tokarov 7.62x25 mags.

If thinks don't work out I will fit a heavy bbl in 223 to the action. I have all ready tuned the trigger to where I really like it.

Also if you get a chance could you post a few pics of the OEM bolt assy.

Hope the project finished up nicely.

Excellent thread. I'm about to start the same but I'm converting it to 9mm instead. The newer versions of the rifle that are being imported are supposed to be using "match grade" barrels and now they also come with a DIP rail clone from the factory. Not sure if the factory barrel threading have improved, but I'm considered picking a new one up just because they're so handy.

Hi Professor,

It's been July since I last updated!  I passed on that job back up north due to taxes, housing prices, politics, and gun control.  an Authorization to Transport, really?

Anyways, as the rifle is now with the barrel trimmed to 24", but with relocated scope mounts:



It is capable of shooting well, but get a high flier about 25% of the time.  Bedding problems for sure as the barreled action is a tight push into the a slightly tweaked stock.  I bought some Marine-Tex to properly bed this rifle.  I'll tackle that some time.  I am loading Hornaday 55 gr. FMJ's with 10.8 gr. 4227 and 7 1/2 primers.  1" high at 100 yards and 2" low at 200 yards with double size groups.  I want to try out 50 gr. Speer TNT bullets - seems like the right bullet for this rifle.  I've shot my batch of 100 TCM brass a few times and am starting to lose them to case neck splits.  Not sure why as I made a sizing die to not excessively size case necks.  Yes, one of those case necks is getting a bit long.



I will make a trigger housing at some point to use a 15 round M1 carbine mag.  I need a real mill, not an Armstrong to do this.  Those short base bodies make the cartridge dive when stripping a cartridge out of the magazine.  Those guides at the back of the mag help catch the cartridge rim and push the nose down.  I'll make a swage from A2 like a 1911 front sight staking tool and swage the top 1/4" of those guides flat.

I don't use the factory mag as it is too short and single loading doesn't bug me while shooting at the range.  It also seemed to bind a bit with a strong spring and the new straight wall case, so I never bothered to even try it in the magwell.



Pics of bolt as requested.  It is pretty simple, a lot like a Winchester 52 bolt.  I stoned the sear surface just a little to remove that gritty feeling.

Is that the end of the striker sticking out the back?

Yes. It's kind of like a cocked indicator.

Now that there's a 1911 magblock, wonder if we could put together a .22 TCM semi-auto carbine.

RE: split necks - It could just be a less than optimal brass composition. Since the cartridge is not SAAMI we have a single import source. OTOH there is some Federal 223 brass that has a bad rap for being soft which might be a good selection for rolling your own.  Another point I thought of was either after fire forming or the first sizing maybe a neck/shoulder anneal might extend useful life.

RE: Semi build - a 1911 mag is fine for those who will stick with the factory spec ammo. I think the 2 OEM cartridge offering are fine for there intended pistol market. BUT many of us see this round as the bridge between 22 Hornet and 22LR with even better potential.

For an AR build you have the option of the 1911 mag block, a PPsH mag block, or a 30 Carbine mag block. How well a 30 Carb mag would feed the OEM ammo has yet to be determined.

I have a nagging desire to build a single action revolver in 22TCM.

I would love to try some 50-54gr hollow point swagged from RF brass, I also think 22 short brass might make some good 9R projectile options, both as soft point or round nose open base FMJ.

Cool deal. those little cases look alot like a wildcat i've been working on as well. Just got the reamers (die and chamber) in last week. Mine has a .100" longer case and is based off .223 brass so they have thicker necks. The .223 short which is the non improved variant has been holding up decently even with the thick necks.

how's the velocity with the 55's? I know with the short (which has a 16.3gr capacity) does best with the 40-50gr bullets. velocity dropped off quickly with 55's (100's of ft/sec) with a 40gr v-max I'm getting 3264ft/sec avg. from an 18.5" barrel.

With a 40gr jhp I got 2700+ from my 6" SBR AR I built however I went a little short on the gas system which has forced me to dial it back to 2550 as it's trying to unlock before pressures have dropped enough. My gas system is 2.5" so next barrel with the improved cartridge will be 3.2" like the Micro barrels on the market.

My favorite part of these little pipsqueeks is how mild the report is and how efficient they are. I'm getting almost 90% the performance of a .223 with 40gr bullets with the report of a 22 magnum and almost half the powder used (13.5gr)

@ProfGAB101 here's some advice. you'll never get a savage to work as a repeater (cases will fall off before clearing the ejection port) just nature of the beast with a front lug bolt. My 18.5 was done in the same manner as you mentioned by setting back the barrel and rechambering. you will need to thread the rest of the tenon that way you can put the barrel nut on from the front or you will not have enough threads to even get the barrel nut on. My .223 short started life as a 1:9 take off sporter barrel in .223

As for AR use 22boomer has proven both ppsh43 and 30 carbine mags will work on the ar platform. I sent MEAN ARMS a message to see if they can modify their endomag(which uses Pmags) to have groves in the block to allow spitzer bullets for cartridges like mine and the 22tcm.