I picked p a 388K serial number sporterized RIA 1903 at my LGS last week.  It is my intention to restore it to military configuration and convert it to a USMC sniper so that I can shoot Vintage Sniper without altering a collectible rifle since this one is alread D&T for a Williams sight and has been rebarreled with a sporter barrel.

It has a Brown and Sharp marked bolt, and there was just a tiny bit of surface rust under the Williams peep along with what appears to be a thin film of some kind of glue, perhaps as a filler between the receiver and the sight?

My first question is that the barrel (unmarked as far as I can tell - a little rust under the wood of the nice sporter stock) does not appear to be 30/06.  The muzzle - with decent rifling visible at the bore- SWALLOWS a 30/06 bullet AND case neck easily.  I took a rough measurement with a set of calipers and I get about .35 ~ 9mm.  The bolt still appears to be unmodified and fits the 30/06.  Any ideas what it might have been rebarreled to?  Was there something common?  I'm not looking to shoot it with the existing barrel, I'm straight into the restoration. Just curious.

I've been looking at the Italian walnut C stocks, but I've been told that their quality has slipped alot.  I looked at the Murray (Murry?) military reproduction stocks - about $430 with a handguard.  Or I can try to hunt up an original C stock in decent shape.

Building an accurate rifle and not worrying about it being "correct" just within the CMP VS class rules, what's your experience with these options?

Finally, there's little finish on the bolt or receiver.  I've seen from reading that while the original NM bolts were polished, the USMC sniper bolts were given a deep blue to reduce glare.  I gather that the receivers for these rifles were parkerized (that kinda greenish USMC park) or were they blued?
What about the rest of the metal?

Any help would be appreciated.

John

if you're interested in '03's find yourself a copy of Campbells '03 Springfields fascinating book, will probably answer every question you have about that particular weapon. I've read my copy cover to cover numerous times.

Current caliber may be .35 Whelen (Whelan??). I believe its parent case is .30'06.

that's what it sounds like,



as far as the finish,
once you get it done, metal wise, just have it parked, and all will look good,


if you want specifics  on the USMC rifles,  head over to Jouster or Gunboards and look for some posts by CplNorton,  he is doing a schload of research on 1903's,  and posts some good stuff,

You have a long and expensive journey ahead of you.

LOL, true, but I do love to have something to tinker with.

Thanks for the help folks.  I have to go order a book!    Holy crap, the RIFLE is cheaper than the book!


John

Be patient looking for a stock. NOS USGI replacements can be found for $400ish. I have seen a few recently for sale.

Reproductions are usually not right in the inletting and require shimming to correct. So far the only reproduction I have got to work, keeping with CMP rules, is a Minnelli. The Italian walnut is not that great though. I have not tried a Keystone stock or Murray yet.  

Damn, I've had my copy for 40 years, didn't know they'd be worth that much......bought mine new for $30.00. I've had it on my shelf for all that time. Maybe I'll put it in the safety deposit box at that price.

Yeah, too expensive, try to get a copy of one of Canfield's, Brophy's, or Crossman's books. They can still be had for a reasonable price. Haunt the used book shelves and estate sales to say nothing about the gunshows, for the Campbell book.

Try this one, it's a bit more expensive than whatever the price I paid for it at a gunshow but still not bad.



Here's a much better price on the Campbell book.

9.3x62 Mauser is another possibility.

I agree.  

OP, you can restore it if you want to, but its not going to come cheap.

Just my opinion, but the time for restoring sporterized milsurps has passed.  I've done it before, the last time in the early 2000s when replacement parts were still cheap.  Now, the prices for some parts have gone into ridiculous territory.

Edit:  You can find electronic copies of Crossman's book online.  I've got a copy around here somewhere....

Another suggestion, medium bores are coming back into vogue now.  I bet if it is a .35 whelen with a peep sight, you'd find a buyer.  Then find another one with the original barrel which has been drilled.  That shouldn't be too hard to do

double tap

Very expensive to build but fun rifle to shoot

Hello, I'm looking at the serial # range on your post.  Is it 388 K ?  Or did you mean 3 Mil range ?
IIRC anything under 800 K was considered unsafe to shoot.  The receivers were brittle, and could explode.

I have a 3 Mil range '03.  Am debating having it re-barreled.  If I do it, I'd send it to the CMP.  $200 for a Criterion barrel, and $175 labor.
I think they do metal finishing too.
I found their labor rates on their website.

Some bad info here. He states its a Rock Island receiver. It is not only very safe to shoot, it's also a Nickel Steel receiver.

And no, the single heat treat receivers don't just explode if shot.

Edit-mod. Play nice.

I couldn't tell you the difference between Rock Island, Springfield, Remington, Smith Corona, or whomever else made them, as to the particulars.
I've read in many different places, that there were heat treating problems in the early ones.  After roughly serial # 800k the problems were fixed.  That' s why "some" receivers were brittle, and "could" break.  It's a safety concern.  Nothing more.

...

No worries.  I did my research.  388k is safe in a RI.  The interesting thing was that many sources I looked at didn't have Rock Island producing that many receivers, ending their production about 340K.

It actually wasn't that bad to order the parts.  I've got everything either in hand or being delivered this afternoon.

1903's in military trim seem to run anywhere from about $800 to $1200 (throwing out the ones that were insanely high), with no guarantee how well they'd shoot, and most don't have the C stock I need.

I paid $300 for the sporter.
        $200 for the new Criterion barrel (disappointed that it showed up from the CMP with a broad streak of rust down one side, but refinishing will take care of that)
        $200 for the new Italian stock (if it works out.)
        $460 for all the metal fiddly-bits. (OUCH!)

Works out to just under $1200 with a new barrel and stock, plus the cost of gunsmithing to swap out the barrel, finish ream for headspace, and refinish everything.  If I bought a complete rifle I could still have ended up (maybe likely ended up) with the cost of a barrel, instillation and refinishing to get the accuracy I want and might have had to replace the stock as well.  And since I'm going to be having it D&T for the Malcolm scope mounts I'd have damaged the value or a "correct" rifle.

John

Your many sources are mistaken, or they may have simply transposed some numbers... Should read about 430k, not 340k.  Rock Island's final serial number was 430742, struck on July 31st, 1919.  Your 388k RIA dates from very early 1919, about 6 months before they ended production.

Fun fact: There are also some rifles with RIA receivers out there with serials in the 1.29 million range.  These were a small quantity of RIA marked but unserialized/unfinished receivers leftover at the end of RIA production.  They were shipped off to Springfield Armory, who stuck them in storage until 1928, when they were used by Springfield to assemble some M1903s using SA serial numbers and parts.  (These 1.29 million serial numbered RIA rifles are very uncommon, due to the small quantity.)

I suspected some kind of error at one source, then quoted by others since I was holding in my hands the proof that the information was about as accurate as a firearms article in a modern newspaper.

Thanks for the manufacturing date information, too.  I love the history of these old rifles.  It's fun to hold one in your hands and wonder where it's been, who carried it, and what happened to them.

Thanks again,


John.



PS.  I just unpacked the box from Numrich.  There've been a number of posts in different places about problems with the aftermarket military stocks.  My initial impression of the stock is positive.  It is smoothly finished, cleanly inletted, and the receiver drops in snug, but without any undue pressure required.  If there are issues, they are more subtle than this cursory trial reveals.

The add-on handguard ($18) is rougher, not as nicely sanded and does not appear to even be completely shaped,  The wood is not really a match.  Even if it doesn't end up being usable (or I screw it up), military handguards for the rifle are not that expensive.

Thursday I'll take the barrel and receiver to the gunsmith for the barrel swap and finish reaming to get this project started.

re the receivers and bad heat treat,


if curious, check over on Gunboards, Jouster or CMP forums for posts by Cplnorton,

not sure if he post here,


some very good info has been found in the archives about receivers and why they break,


dispels a few myths