I hear it is the pressure curve of the round more than the bullet weight which makes an ammo option safe to fire in an M1 or not.  I know that in 223, the fusion is a pretty mild load (Box velocity claims 3000fps but it only achieves ~2,850 from a 20" barrel).  The box for the 308 180 grain states 2600 fps, no barrel length mentioned.  What say you?  Good to go in an M1?  Anyone ever use this stuff in any self loading rifles?  If so, how far off was the POI from NATO ball?    

Found it on sale for $20 a box, which is basically the same price as ball ammo.  Might as well get the ballistically better bonded fusion bullet over plain fmj at the same price!  

We need an expert opinion.

@FluffyTheCat

I don't know.

But at $20 a box, buy all you can find. And also invest in a Schuster adjustable gas plug.

Does that gas plug reduce reliability with nato power loads under adverse conditions?

It’s adjustable, you might have to find a sweet spot for both loads.

More importantly, where are you finding that ammo?  
It has worked well for me on elk.

Would you fire it out of a garand without the special gas plug?

Not me. Probably won’t break anything right away.  

Where are you finding that ammo?

This is a CMP 308,  I have only run mil surp 308 thru it.  Obviously works fine with that, good for me cause I have a pallet of it.

Attached File


Fluffy is on point, these were built for M80 ball spec ammo.
Deviate at your discretion.  I would get the adjustable plug if I wasn’t using up all my surplus.

The CMP warns that you don't use loads greater than 50,000 CUP AND heavier than 172 grains. The warning has to meet both conditions to be dangerous.

For .30-06, the pressure is unlikely to be higher than that threshold even with heavier weight commercial hunting ammo. I've used 180 grain Federal Soft Point with no problem in my .30-06 M1. A few guntubers have tested out different commercial ammunition to see if its unsafe.

It seems like .308 has a higher standard of max pressure however. Maybe since it's different pressures for .308, it's more likely to result in a failure with higher bullet weights? It wouldn't hurt anything to use the adjustable ported gas plug. Its only going to set you back about $50

Some Ahole already bought it all...  That's what I get for posting the question on this forum...

Lol

You did it?

eh, I rather seriously doubt that's a Garand Safe load anyway.  Heavy bullet loaded with gunpowder made after 1952, is probably going to have a way higher port pressure than you want.

I’m far from hurting for cheap ammo son.

Attached File


I would’ve gotten 5 or 6 boxes to test, if you had told me where.
I like the fusion 165 in my 308 AR.  You would have needed an adjustable plug in the garand.

I might be wrong, but after playing with dozens of Garands over the years, here's what I think.

When an operating rod gets bent it is usually a combination of things.

Some people think that the use of heavy bullets will damage the operating rod. Some people think that slow burning powders cause damage to operating rods.

But the main causes are a weak operating rod spring and poor lubrication.

When you have a weak operating rod spring, the bolt will slam backwards and batter the receiver heel. And at the same time, the operating rod will flex and in time it will bend.

Now if you use a slow burning powder and at the same time you have a weak operating rod spring, you now have a higher port pressure which means more bolt velocity. So with a weak operating rod spring, the receiver heel takes an even harder battering and the operating rod is subject to much greater flexing.

Now if you have an poorly lubricated M1 with a weak operating rod spring then all the parts are even more stressed. If the operating rod is not lubricated it becomes even more likely to flex.

The most important two things you can do to maintain your Garand is to keep the gun properly greased and to install a fresh operating rod spring every 1000 to 2000 rounds.

The Schuster adjustable gas plug simply changes the gas volume in the system. It regulates the volume of gas and allows you to use just enough gas to ensure reliable function. You are keeping the bolt velocity to a minimum and in so doing you are protecting your receiver and your operating rod.

The Schuster gas plug is a great way to minimize wear and tear on a Garand especially when you are using a non standard caliber such as 9.3x62.

A properly lubricated M1 with a fresh operating rod spring can probably safely digest more than a few rounds loaded with heavy bullets and slow burning powder.

But if you want to use non standard ammo in your M1 and you want to be sure, just keep the gun properly greased, install a fresh operating rod spring and use the Schuster gas plug.