Originally Posted By AK-12:
Were you shooting 8 pellet and they were shooting 9?

Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat:

https://jfeusa.com/magpul-m-lok-rail-panels-coating-options-available/

Joint Force is a hidden gem in my opinion. I don't throw their name out all the time because GD.

Here is the deal, straight up. They're awesome, but they take forever to ship. Like legit a month.

They have an awesome catalog, full of cool shit.... that you'll get in a month. If you have any issues, they probably won't return your email, they will just fix the issue.

Originally Posted By Gullskjegg:


Thanks, brother!  I’ll check them out.  Assuming they probably do coating to order.

Originally Posted By AK-12:


FFC 9 pellet is generally understood to pattern more loosely than FFC 8 pellet and Hornady Versatite. I buy FFC because it is typically significantly less expensive than Hornady, but haven't had a chance to compare the Hornady and FFC 8 pellet loads in my 1301.

I wouldn't expect any of the three to have cycling issues.

Originally Posted By cyphertext71:

A little late on response, but I don't think anyone answered your question... This gun is not at all optimum for dove hunting or clay shooting. Hand thrown pasture clays for fun with friends? Sure! But your local clay games field will more than likely not allow you to shoot a tactical gun on the courses. If you showed up with one of these to a dove hunt with the guys I hunt with, you would be handed somebodies back up gun or asked to leave.

Originally Posted By cyphertext71:

A little late on response, but I don't think anyone answered your question... This gun is not at all optimum for dove hunting or clay shooting. Hand thrown pasture clays for fun with friends? Sure! But your local clay games field will more than likely not allow you to shoot a tactical gun on the courses. If you showed up with one of these to a dove hunt with the guys I hunt with, you would be handed somebodies back up gun or asked to leave.

Originally Posted By MK318:


Sounds like some lame ass guys to hunt with. Also, me and some friends bust clays literally all the time with our 1301Ts and A300UP. The club we belong to has an indoor field, my wife used my older Gen 1 1301T in a novice league and did just fine last year. Sometimes it's fun to just go and have a good time without being stuck up about equipment. Seems that some of the trap and skeet shooters are just as snobby as some golfers.

Originally Posted By ispeed:



I’m not going to argue on the internet, but I will say that I used to have that same thinking.  The more I researched, the more I want a tight pattern for self defense (and even hunting).  I would say that a wide spread of buckshot is more of a liability and could even be more survivable given distances.  Certainly entitled to your opinion, but for me Federal Flight Control is the absolute best option for self defense.  You can get your loadouts the way you want and I know some guys that have 5 rounds of FFC, then two rounds of slugs at the end (or some variation) but in this gun (1301 thread) I would feel fine with 7 rounds of FFC myself.  Personally, in my 870 I have 3 rounds of FFC #1 buck, 2 FFC 00 Buck and then finish off with slugs.  

Ammo Selection Guide … I read this probably 15+ years ago when I started my research journey.
https://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=176

Originally Posted By mij:

Looks to have the new 2 peice mag cover with groves cut in it, to keep clamp from sliding.

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/product/2-piece-shotgun-magazine-tube-cover-JKA300AGSMTC7

Originally Posted By 03RN:


I agree. I've used shitty patterning buck, even at close range I want ffc. There is no good argument for using shitty buckshot beyond practice.

Originally Posted By MK318:


There was someone on here who recently tested that Winchester military 00 buck and it patterned very well for him. Far better than I recall it ever performing for me. As to the idea that a wide spread is better, that is just silly. Not only do you end up with a potential liability issue, it completely negates the performance of 00 buck. Hitting a bad guy with a single or maybe a few .32 lead balls isn’t going to be even close as effective has hitting him with 8-9 of them in a tight cluster. I can’t even justify using garbage 00 for practice. What are you really getting out of a practice session using low performing, inaccurate rounds.

Originally Posted By 03RN:


I agree. I've used shitty patterning buck, even at close range I want ffc. There is no good argument for using shitty buckshot beyond practice.

Originally Posted By Tyrantresister:


What is "shitty" buckshot???  

"Shitty" buckshot is subjective.  How about a brand that advertizes 00 buckshot, but actually only load 0 size / weight pellets?  Federal's pellets are WAAAAY undersized at 31.5 caliber and only 47 grains each.  You're get 15% less energy per pellet compared to actual 00 buckshot.  I prefer having full size / power 00 buckshot, esp if that is what's advertised.  They should advertise their load as 0 buckshot, 9 of them don't even equal one ounce of lead.

Tight patterning buckshot is ideal for COMBAT.  IE, you want to the farthest effective range with buckshot that you can have.  IE, if a tango engages from 50 yards, you ideally want a tight enough patterning gun that can hit and down him.  FC excels in that situation, espessially for non choked shotguns.  However, it is inconsistent, I've had some Federal FC loads that literally patterned twice as good as others..  It also seems to fall off faster after 30 yards.  

For this reason I prefer other buckshot loads that are more consistent performing through a specific choke.  I get much more consistent results, even with different lot numbers, than hoping the lot of FC I just bought is good.  Also, I actually get full size / power 00 and not fake 0 buck masquerading as 00.  Since most tactical shotguns have the ability to accept chokes today, one doesn't have to be restricted to FC like they did with older fixed cylinder bore barrel tactical shotguns.

****NOW FOR HOME DEFENSE****    

I think people wanting FC for home defense to be stupid, except for some very special / unique circumstances.  The entire shot column is still in the wad at 10 yards and under.  The majority of engagements in a home defense scenario will be under 10 yards, you might as well just use a slug at that point.  The advantage of buckshot at close range is multiple wound channels / multiple vitals hit, and a greater margin of error for faster shots / making up for less than perfect shot placement.  There is a trauma multiplier from multiple wound channels impacting simultaneously.

At 5 yards, a 5" spread is pretty ideal, much more so than just a single .70 caliber slug impact.  Same with 7 yards, etc.  Also, by hitting as a slug at those ranges, your going to have more more over penetration (if that is a concern or not, if up to you).  

Again, people need to know to separate home DEFENSE from COMBAT and WHY, and in what situations, a tight pattern is better.  People have wrongly been lead to believe that they want the tightest pattern in EVERY situation, which is stupid and plainly untrue.  But 99% of people just parrot what they are told (which is not just a problem in the gun community, but everywhere), so...

Originally Posted By 03RN:


To me shitty buckshot is buckshot that can't stay inside the size pattern I want at the distance wanted.

All your claims of tight patterns at close range are wrong. They don't penetrate deeper.

The whole point of buckshot over a rifle is increased terminal performance. You get that performance by keeping the pellets tight which will overcome the skins elastic properties and do much more damage. A larger pattern does not have the same mechanism of action and is not a "trauma multiplier ".

Have you ever stated you want a home defense carbine shooting 10" patterns at 10 yards? No. I doubt it. Wanting your pattern larger to increase your hit probably is lazy. And in reality just increases your miss probability.

Originally Posted By Tyrantresister:

My claims are actually correct, and I'll demonstrate it.

Have you ever heard of cut shells?  Old timers in the great depression would cut the hull of a shotshell around the shot 90% of the way.  When they then fired it, the shell would project out from the barrel encompasing the shot in it so it didn't spread.  This made a defacto poor man's slug.  All the pellets kept together in the shell impacting a deer at the same time gave penetration magnitudes greater than if they had just fired the birdshot shell at the deer.  They were able to harvest deer in this fashion.  So yes, keeping all the shot together in one solid mass increases penetration.  It's enough to turn a harmless birdshot shell into a deer killer at range.  Inside the FC wad, all the buckshot pellets are kept together until they exit the wad (between 10 and 15 yards), at which point they begin to slowly spread.  

Here is another example, this fellow did buckshot penetration tests into plywood.  He found that at the distances he tested at (inside of 10 yards) the FC buckshot penetrated substantially more than any other buckshot he tested, even the 3" 000 copper plated buck!  For the same reason as I explained above, the FC wad kept all the pellets as one solid mass at impact.  The pellets were so tightly together that some even fused upon impact, further increasing penetration.  Observe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_es-UsHK6Fw

Your analogy about 10" groups with a rifle is also faulty as well.  For one, a rifle is only firing one projectile where as with the shotgun you have between 8 to 27 projectiles in that 10 inches.  Now, if you had a FULL AUTO carbine, and did a 10 round burst, you are very likely to get around a 10" spread.  So it is very much like a shotgun at that distance.  What do you think is a more effective stopper?  A single semi auto shot or a 10 round full auto burst, even though the 10 round burst will have a 10" spread?