After being bitten by the MG-bug a few years ago, I am finding it increasingly tough to not see the majority of my semis as would-be funds for another. I have a few SMGs, but nothing in a rifle caliber yet (save Lage's impending M11/15 release).

I purged the collection twice before and am not adverse to doing so again to fund another auto. This time, the Scar 16, Tavor, Noveske Crusader, and Zev Dragonfly would have to go, and possibly one of the M11/9s. Yes, the parts availability issue scares me and although I've read enough to know these rifles were fairly well built, the cracked bolt horror-story over on Uzi has me a touch timid. I found one locally that might be an option for just over 12.

Experts say... fo or no-fo?

ETA: no-fo

Last I check FNCs were running $15k +/-, you can easily pick up a RLL for that price.

Would have no parts availability issues and you can scratch that belt fed itch with a Shrike upper.

Not sure if its mechanically possible (also a legal grey area) but might be able to use a RLL in a AR10/SR25 308 caliber rifle as well.

If possible that's a whole lot of bang for your buck!

I went down the same road about 2 years ago and decided to pass because of parts availability.

Just do the rll. Its holding around 14k when they pop up. You can use a shrike with it....?
Havemt u always wanfed a belt fed? Or how about a mk18 full autl suppressed?

I really like FNC's but If you don't have an m16, def go that route instead. Parts availability and the fact that a lower end m16 RR or RLL can be had for not much more. I just don't think FNC's are worth the money people are asking. If on the other hand you already have an m16 and just want an FNC because it's a really cool gun, then by all means have at it.

It really comes down to how much you want to shoot it.

If you want something different than an M16 and plan on taking the FNC out once or twice a year and putting a handful of mags through it, leave it in factory config, etc......you will probably be very happy with it and will have minimal risk of part wear and/or breakage for many....many years.

However, if you plan on putting multiple cases of ammo (or more) a year through the FNC, want to do back to back mag dumps (or beta dumps), want to modify it into a short barrel config, put a suppressor it, etc. you need to be OK with the idea that you run a not insignificant risk of having to spend $3000 to $4000 to buy a semi host when a critical component breaks.

Given that the parts situation has not budged in over a decade (and in my estimation has become even more thin),  I wouldnt place a bet that a bunch of surplus FNC parts are going to show up or some enterprising folks will start making hammers, carriers, and bolts domestically anytime in the near future.

The FNC is a great 70s era machinegun and is a nice add to anyone's collection.  Just understand its limitations that all the US based hosts (and associated parts) are around 30 years old and its just short of a dead platform from a domestic development standpoint (and on life support in the rest of the world).

OP here. Appreciate all the perspectives and insights so far. All valid points. I have some time to think while I try to move the Title 1 stuff. Decisions, decisions.

I just purchased an FNC from Ruben Mendiola a few months ago as my first MG.  It's a beautiful gun and I got it from him right before he raised his prices on his FNCs and I paid right at $14.5K  for it.

I haven't had a chance to shoot the gun yet as its been sitting at my dealer until the Form 4 clears.  In retrospect I probably should've bought an M16 so I would have a belt fed ability with the Shrike, but I've always liked the FNC and ended up buying one for nearly $5k less than an M16.

I'm now thinking about trying to get in the belt fed game, and may eventually buy an M16 in order to have all the different options.  

If you can get an FNC for the $12K price or so you mentioned, I think it would be worth it.

I think I saw and read part of your thread on it. Congrats, nice pickup. That said, I think Ruben and other dealers are trying to, and succeeding in, setting the market instead of working within it.

Case in point: Sear that sold tonight: $8k

They are worth whatever people are willing to pay I suppose.

Another thing to consider is how and where a MG is registered. People might be willing to pay extra for a MG that is in state or on a Form 3 to avoid a long wait. Someone buying a out of state MG on a Form 4 could be looking at close to a TWO YEAR wait given the current backlog at the ATF. I just bought a M11/9 out of state on a form 4, I got a sweet deal on it but it is very possible that I may not take possession of it until summer of 2019...WTF!

I'm in the same boat with one of my M11s... double F4s suck. I think I'm officially off the FNC train... decided on a RLL or RDIAS. Thanks all.

I wouldn't worry about a 2 yr wait.

I sold a gun that went on a form 4 individual to dealer which took a month to be approved(actually more like 3 weeksish).  Now it's in the buyers state and will probably take 6 monthsish.  So within ~8 months a double form 4 currently.

Good plan slappy!  Personally I'd rather have a rr over an rll.  A dias would be nice, although the prices they're going for is crazy!

Move 2 of your m11/9s, and your pretty much there at a RR!
That's the point of the entry subguns

There are pros and cons to the RLL vs DIAS.

I personally prefer the quick drop in nature of the RLL.  Its actually much easier to move a RLL from host to host vs. a DIAS which has to migrate all of the fire control parts.

If you plan to set up one lower and leave it, than the DIAS probably has the better advantage being a more factory style arrangement.

However,  if you want to move the sear around to a bunch of different lowers like dedicated pistol caliber 9mm or 45acp, AR47, LE901, Shrike belt box lower, etc.  Having to more all of the fire control parts each time you want to change lowers would be a pain and isnt something you probably want to do a bunch of at the range.  For the DIAS you have to remove and migrate not only the hammer, trigger, disco, but you also have to remove the pistol grip (at least partially) in order to get the selector out.  

With a RLL you just pop the upper off, pull the lighting link out and drop it into the other lower/host and rock and roll.  Both the DIAS and RLL similar timing setup requirements, so each lower/host has to be prepped properly.   However, once set up the RLL is literally a 30 second full host swap scenario from host to host.

Good explanation^
I didn't take any of that into consideration.
I was just basing my opinion on what it is your actually spending a whole lot of money on( the part itself).

I'm seriously wondering why a RDIAS is in the ballpark of double the cost of an RLL?

how much are the semiauto FNC selling for? asking for a friend 

There are some clear pros to the RDIAS over the RLL (in certain use cases) and other than may be more perceived internet lore vs. reality.

- The RDIAS is more of a factory style arrangement and that provides some perceived advantage to many folks.
- The RDIAS has always been considered more "durable".  However if you properly set up a lower and use a link protector, its been my experience that links are pretty durable.  I have two of them, one of which has seen untold thousands of rounds of 9MM without showing any adverse affect.   Long term, who knows as the population sets of both RDIASs and RLL is so small.   Both can easily be damaged if you dont set them up properly.  Links may be more easily or quickly damaged if not set up properly.
- RDIASs are probably more easily repaired if damaged.
- RDIAS can be used with 22lr kits.
- RDIASs can be used with Geissele style triggers.
- RDIAS uses off the shelf full auto bolts (vs. harder to find SP1 spec semi bolts)
- RLL require specific modified FCG parts to obtain a safe-semi-auto fire control arrangement.  (Default is Safe-Auto)
- Technically the RLL cant be set up for burst or a 4-way kit.

All of these new modern / dedicated style lowers didnt really exist 10 years ago.  So most folks set up a DIAS in a mil-spec style lower and then never moved it.  (just swapped uppers).

In my mind if you want to set up a RDIAS in a mil-spec lower, run a Geissele trigger, and just swap uppers around (plus dont mind the $20K uplift in cost) than the RDIAS has a clear mechanical advantage.  

Whether that advantage is worth $35K vs. $15K I am not sure.   If you like to tinker and foray into the world of custom lowers than the RLL in my estimation holds an advantage.

Personally if somebody gave me $35K to spend on an M16 variant(s) I would rather have a nice Oly PAWS registered receiver for $20K and a RLL for $15K vs. one DIAS for $35K.  It gives you two M16s, one in a true factory arrangement you can set up as an M4 with a Geissele trigger and a 22LR kit, etc. and RLL to move around to all your more non-standard hosts to satisfy your inner tinkerer.


I have two registered receivers so am plenty covered when it comes to the mil-spec M16.    So for me having two RLLs that I can swap around into different custom lowers easily is a nice advantage.   I can take a link out of a 9MM lower and drop it into my Shrike lower or into a host set up for an FM9, etc.

RDIAS have a lot of Pros but moving them around from host to host in my opinion isnt one of them.

This.

Get a couple S/A first, then buy the MG.

Lowest I've seen in the last month was 2.5, highest was 4.5.

ETA: OP not adding an FNC.

I had FNC... probably took it out for a few times since the purchase.
To me it was boring and can't justify the part availability or insane price.
Brought it for $6.5K then sold it for $10K... I don't miss it at all.

Well, one good thing about all this is that you'll be able to sell it for a profit one day.  You can hardly make a mistake buying any MG.

These guns were selling for like $6500 five years ago, now it looks like $15k or so.

That's a bigger price increase than just about any other gun I can think of.

UZIs and MACs more or less doubled in price over that period, M16s went up about 45%.  WWII Thompsons went up about the same as M16s.


I think the dramatic price increase in FNCs can be attributed to two things:

1. Lower priced stuff has an easier time increasing in price, there are more potential buyers at the low end.

2. There was a mass delusion floating around that "there are more FNC sears than hosts" which turned out to be a load of crap.  Basically, there was a huge shortage of FNC sears that was thought to be a huge over-supply.


If FNCs are selling at about 50% of the price of a Colt M16A1, that's probably about right.  

The M16 is a gun dynasty, probably the best known gun in the world, and it has an inexhaustible supply of spare parts and accessories.

Compared to an FNC, a far lesser known gun with no spare parts or accessories at all.

The FNC is an excellent gun though, it has a lot of really great features.

Well that's not true.

I bought my sear in 2013.  At that time, I had a WTB add up for a year.  No sears had popped up for a year.  I got a hit and paid around $4800 with the burst pack; it was a deal.  The semi-auto para FNC was $3800, the conversion was $1000.

The last days of 6500 FNCs were about 2009-2010 and that was a deal back then.



MY FNC RUNS BETTER THEN MY M16!!!

2017 minus 5 years is 2012

2012 is not the same as 2013, 2012 was a year of yuge price jumps in MGs

in early 2012 you could buy an FNC sear off gunbroker for $3300.

are people really spending $14-15k on FNCs?  I thought the real going price was more like $12-13k.  Which is why I didn't buy that sear for $8k.  Heck and I have two spare semi FNCs.

I purchased mine end of 2010 and with burst kit installed, was into it for about $6500.   Oly RR were around $9500-$10,000.  Colts that had M16A1 rollmarks were about $14k.

As far as the increased interest in FNCs?  Basically an all metal SCAR-16.  One of the few euro spec MGs you can buy.  The only FN in 5.56.  Buying a spare FNC for parts doesn't seem so bad now that the full auto version is five digits.  There are a bazillion M16s out there by comparison.  

If this truly become a rich man's hobby, every rich guy will have an M16 in their collection, but there are less than 4k FNC sears out there.  

And when did RLL get such a favorable reputation?  Back when they were $7k nobody wanted them which was around 2010.

I love my FNC.  However the parts issue is a real downer.  But then again I have only run 4k rounds through it since I owned it.  I guess my friends are cheap asses and I only need a couple hundred rounds per outing to get my fill of full auto fire.  I also have an M11/9 that I run hard if I feel the need to turn lots of money into noise.

I also only run .223 instead of 5.56 hoping its less hard on the gun.

Apparently so.  One just went this week at the RIA auction for $14,000 not including the 15% buyer premium....which brings it to $16,100 OTD.  

https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/FN-FNH-Rifle-w-S-H-Full-Transferrable-Auto-Sear-Class-III-NFA/37526270/LotDetail.asp?lid=37526270


Given the advent of all sort of dedicated pistol caliber lowers, saw box cut shrike lower, etc. the utility of being able to very easily move the sear around is a nice feature.  They also cost less than what a dedicated non-Colt RR costs, I think folks are willing to look the other way that its a bit outside the norm in terms of mechanical operation to get the flexibility of a sear for ~$20K less than a DIAS.

Throw in the fact that link protectors exist now, you can easily get lowers properly relieved by a couple reputable smiths, the wear/breakage issue isn't as much of a concern when folk just stuffed them into any AR15 they could find and promptly broke or tweaked them.

I hope this thread is not out of date, but I want to bring up the FNC parts availability issue.  There are substitute parts available to keep your FNC running.  Robert at RTG parts has been bringing in Swedish AK5 parts like extractors, handguards, cocking knobs, etc. that you can use in your FNC.  Over the last 12 years that I've owned my transferable FNC, the only part that broke was the firing pin.  This pin breakage issue is well-known because of the narrow shaft of the pin.  What I found out is that a M249 SAW firing pin has the same dimensions and is a perfect substitute.

Besides the aftermarket barrels that were made by Green Mountain barrel company, Mike Woodward at TSC machine had(has?) a source for FNC heavy barrels.  

Atlas Armament, a C2 out of Florida, had been advertising things like a 80% upper receiver flat and a replica AK5 stock on Sturmgewehr and FALFiles over the past few years.

The lower on a SCAR 16 is the exact same dimensions as a FNC.  When the SCAR came out, people were asking if you could drop a S&H FNC sear into a SCAR because of the dimensional similarities.

The FNC is a very robust gun that is partially based on the AK.  I wouldn't place too much stock into parts breakage and parts unavailability.

Had a semi FNC "para" with sidefolder in the young 80's. Cools as could be.

Back/back range trips with Colt SP1 - and the SP1 was the better shooter all the way around.

Stopped shooting the FNC entirely then eventually traded it plus $200.00 cash  for an NIB SWD M11A1/380 and Bowers CAC380 back when Bush-ban semis were worth more than low-end NFA.

Someone got a sear host and I got an SMG.

I say get an AR.