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I've been reloading since age 12, 38 years and counting.
What I have learned over the years reloading for rifles, pistols, revolvers, paper cartridge rifles and black powder cartridge rifles, including loading for bullseye, practical pistol, national match and BPCR competition is: 1. Don't believe everything you hear on the internet; 2. Don't be too quick to adopt the latest and greatest; a) reloading fad b) powder c) bullet, or d) reloading gadget 3. Stick to the basics and move forward in evolutionary rather than revolutionary steps; 4. Let others figure out whether the new stuff really works better than the old stuff before you switch; and 5. If it's sounds too good to be true, it probably is. ------ Personally, I tried wet cleaning about 35 years ago and found it lacking. I never bothered with it in it's more recent ultrasonic incarnation even though I have an ultrasonic cleaner already sitting on the work bench (for small parts cleaning). I'll stay with tumbling - it's fairly quick, easy, and has far fewer pitfalls than ultrasonic cleaning. |
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I don't wet tumble. I don't have anything for or against it. What are everyone's thoughts on the potential for dezincification while wet tumbling? I've never been big on metallurgy but I've not seen a clear consensus from people that seem to know what they are talking about. |
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I've been reloading since age 12, 38 years and counting. What I have learned over the years reloading for rifles, pistols, revolvers, paper cartridge rifles and black powder cartridge rifles, including loading for bullseye, practical pistol, national match and BPCR competition is: 1. Don't believe everything you hear on the internet; 2. Don't be too quick to adopt the latest and greatest; a) reloading fad b) powder c) bullet, or d) reloading gadget 3. Stick to the basics and move forward in evolutionary rather than revolutionary steps; 4. Let others figure out whether the new stuff really works better than the old stuff before you switch; and 5. If it's sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Personally, I tried wet cleaning about 35 years ago and found it lacking. I never bothered with it in it's more recent ultrasonic incarnation even though I have an ultrasonic cleaner already sitting on the work bench (for small parts cleaning). I'll stay with tumbling - it's fairly quick, easy, and has far fewer pitfalls than ultrasonic cleaning. Try wet tumbling with SS pins. I see no reason not to stay with it. |
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I don't wet tumble. I don't have anything for or against it. What are everyone's thoughts on the potential for dezincification while wet tumbling? You don't want "everyone's thoughts" because only a few people have even heard of dezincification. I first studied it in metallurgy class 50 years ago and because of my interest in yacht building I've been involved in carefully avoiding it. In short, if you use brass fittings below the waterline in a boat you're asking for trouble specifically because of selective leaching of zinc, usually associated with electrolysis. The other place where dezincification causes problems is in the plumbing industry. Fittings can fail because of this, but the plumbing guys are usually talking time spans like thirty years. Now I admit that I haven't done any testing about the dezincification associated with wet tumbling and I'm not saying that it doesn't exist. But I will say this: As long as I don't have any electrical wires entering my tumbling drum and as long as I don't leave my tumbler on continuously for 30 years and as long as my brass wears out, even after annealing, in a reasonable length of time I'm not going to worry about it. At least I won't worry about until someone does some real scientific testing to show that it's a genuine problem. At the moment I'm more worried about stress corrosion caused by touching my brass while eating a big greasy burrito slathered in hot sauce. |
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So I looked up dezincification, and found this blurb from here. -- Conditions favoring dezincification are: •Contact with slightly acid or alkaline water •Water with little aeration •Low flow rates of the circulating liquid •Relatively high tube-wall temperatures •Permeable deposits or coatings over the tube surface -- I don't think those conditions are found in the process we are using. Could the case head separation that the person on the Brian Enos forum encountered have been from overworked brass or a high load? We've had case head failures for years, and it is generally from rifle (and some high pressure handguns like 454 Casull) brass that has been through multiple reloadings. The other question I have is how even a catastrophic case failure could result in a firearm exploding into pieces itself without it being an overpressure load. I can see a rifle being damaged beyond being serviceable, but most catastrophic weapons failures tend to happen because a blocked bore or extremely overpressure round. |
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Quoted: You don't want "everyone's thoughts" because only a few people have even heard of dezincification. I first studied it in metallurgy class 50 years ago and because of my interest in yacht building I've been involved in carefully avoiding it. In short, if you use brass fittings below the waterline in a boat you're asking for trouble specifically because of selective leaching of zinc, usually associated with electrolysis. The other place where dezincification causes problems is in the plumbing industry. Fittings can fail because of this, but the plumbing guys are usually talking time spans like thirty years. Now I admit that I haven't done any testing about the dezincification associated with wet tumbling and I'm not saying that it doesn't exist. But I will say this: As long as I don't have any electrical wires entering my tumbling drum and as long as I don't leave my tumbler on continuously for 30 years and as long as my brass wears out, even after annealing, in a reasonable length of time I'm not going to worry about it. At least I won't worry about until someone does some real scientific testing to show that it's a genuine problem. At the moment I'm more worried about stress corrosion caused by touching my brass while eating a big greasy burrito slathered in hot sauce. Quoted: Quoted: I don't wet tumble. I don't have anything for or against it. What are everyone's thoughts on the potential for dezincification while wet tumbling? You don't want "everyone's thoughts" because only a few people have even heard of dezincification. I first studied it in metallurgy class 50 years ago and because of my interest in yacht building I've been involved in carefully avoiding it. In short, if you use brass fittings below the waterline in a boat you're asking for trouble specifically because of selective leaching of zinc, usually associated with electrolysis. The other place where dezincification causes problems is in the plumbing industry. Fittings can fail because of this, but the plumbing guys are usually talking time spans like thirty years. Now I admit that I haven't done any testing about the dezincification associated with wet tumbling and I'm not saying that it doesn't exist. But I will say this: As long as I don't have any electrical wires entering my tumbling drum and as long as I don't leave my tumbler on continuously for 30 years and as long as my brass wears out, even after annealing, in a reasonable length of time I'm not going to worry about it. At least I won't worry about until someone does some real scientific testing to show that it's a genuine problem. At the moment I'm more worried about stress corrosion caused by touching my brass while eating a big greasy burrito slathered in hot sauce. Great post. Thanks. |
I will continue to wet tumble and ultra sonic clean brass even if there was "scientific studies" Here is a target I shot on a competition bench rifle recently, the brass gets 30-40 firings on a compressed load that is over published data by a little bit. Targets speak for themselves. 5 shots @ 100 yards .064
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Gee I thought we used handloads to out shot factory loads  Quoted:
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The arguments I've heard have nothing to do with the bullet being damaged, but rather that the neck tension/bullet release upon firing is more consistent with the carbon fouling present inside the necks. Supposedly having sizing lube present inside the necks is also detrimental in this regard. Interesting argument.....how much carbon fouling is in factory new case necks? We'd better quit buying new ammo. 
I have to admit that ultra squeaky clean necks are harder to push an expander button through, and only the ultra slick RCBS lube pad sized my ultra-blinged LC 762 brass without deformation.......HOWEVER.....I found that running it for a while in some clean corn cob before sizing helped a lot. The corn leaves a white film that's quite slick.....or is that another wives tale. Again, do factorys add carbon fouling to new brass so that when loaded it will shoot accurately? If you believe that, then maybe you'd buy my New Mexico ocean front property......it's cheap! 
Dryflash 3, I'll not be slowing down soon either....you just have to adjust a little to live with bling. It's great medicine for tired old eyes as long as you don't stare to long and burn the retinas. Gee I thought we used handloads to out shot factory loads We do....and it does, no matter wet or dry tumbled. Me, I like the smell of bling in the morning! Once crusty, dirty LC 7.62 brass from Wideners blinged. Next picture, a little 9mm range pickup: 
Thanks Dryflash3....adds new interest to a 44 year hobby, lifts tired eyes, and makes me smile more.....you need another reason?
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Really clean brass is much easier to inspect for flaws. It will gall on things like expanders - a little - but this can be dealt with by just keeping the die parts clean. And since I dry tumble after sizing to remove lube, the little bit of corn dust left on the brass also helps expanders slide easily.
Wet tumbling with stainless steel pins is actually "burnishing" the brass. It peens the surface of the brass, which dislodges gunk and makes the brass smooth. I use the same process as dryflash3; a Thumler's barrel about 1/3 full of brass, filled to within an inch of the top, then with "a 2 second squeeze" of Dawn, and a .45 case full of Lemishine, run for 4 hours. The Dawn dissolves and emulsifies crap, and the Lemishine helps with the gunk, while passivating the brass to keep it shiny for a long time - and proof against finger print stains from handling. There is nothing chemical within this process that can selectively attack the zinc content of the brass, since the citric acid in Lemishine actively protects the brass. Until an actual metallurgist describes in detail how wet tumbling of brass is bad for the brass, I'm just not buying any doom and gloom about it. |
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Below is a post of my opinion from 19 Mar 13:
Let me dust off my ole Metals Handbook, 9th Edition, Volume 13- Corrosion. (my emphasis added) Dealloying is a corrosion process in which the more active metal is selectively removed from an alloy, leaving behind a weak deposit of the more noble metal. Copper-zinc alloys containing more than 15% Zn [cartridge brass is 70% Cu & 30% Zn] are susceptible to a dealloying process called dezincification. In the dezincification of brass, selective removal of zinc leaves a relatively porous and weak layer of copper and copper oxide. Corrosion of a similar nature continues beneath the primary corrosion layer, resulting in gradual replacement of sound brass by weak, porous copper. Unless arrested, dealloying eventually penetrates the metal, weakening it structurally and allowing liquids or gasses to leak through the porous mass in the remaining structure. Dezincification is the usual form of corrosion for brasses in prolonged contact with waters high in oxygen and carbon dioxide. It is frequently encountered with slowly moving solutions. So, I would say no to dezincification of cartridge brass because: 1. Someone would have figured out this was an issue due to their blown cases. 
2. I don't think wet tumbling is either 'prolonged' or a 'slowly moving solution' 3. If you look a picture of brass that suffers from dezincification, it does not look shiny and new. Just my $0.02 |
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Whoever started this stupid rumour is butthurt and has brass envy Why you jealous bro? Bling! https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1412x1059q90/538/B5bZC0.jpg Corncob undeniably polishes better. 
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Corncob undeniably polishes better. <a href="http://s48.photobucket.com/user/11724/media/stuff/DSCN2766_zps4jwgkk1d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/11724/stuff/DSCN2766_zps4jwgkk1d.jpg</a> Quoted:
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Whoever started this stupid rumour is butthurt and has brass envy Why you jealous bro? Bling! https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1412x1059q90/538/B5bZC0.jpg Corncob undeniably polishes better. <a href="http://s48.photobucket.com/user/11724/media/stuff/DSCN2766_zps4jwgkk1d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/11724/stuff/DSCN2766_zps4jwgkk1d.jpg</a> How many hours did it take to get that shiney? |
Many hours. 5 hours in walnut, you can see the necks are still brown from the annealing after that. Then I clean the primer pockets and send it through the corncob for another 5 hours.
I'm not saying it's faster. I'm saying that between the 2 methods, wet tumbling cannot approach the polish of vibratory tumbling with corncob, if that is the goal. |
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So take it out of the wet tumblr, put it in a dry tumbler with a cap of nu-finish for an hour and it will won't tarnish, and will be slick so it won't gall. Problem solved? Exactly. I haven't bought a wet tumbler yet, but here's what I'll be doing once I get one: 1. Decap brass. 2. Wet tumble. 3. Air dry. 4. Dry tumble for 1/2 hr. in clean corn cob with some Flitz Media Additive. 5. Enjoy the bling. |
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How many hours did it take to get that shiney? Quoted:
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Whoever started this stupid rumour is butthurt and has brass envy Why you jealous bro? Bling! https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1412x1059q90/538/B5bZC0.jpg Corncob undeniably polishes better. <a href="http://s48.photobucket.com/user/11724/media/stuff/DSCN2766_zps4jwgkk1d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/11724/stuff/DSCN2766_zps4jwgkk1d.jpg</a> How many hours did it take to get that shiney? 90 minutes in "BiggDawg" style PVC pipe wet tumber I built. Described here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/344986_How_i_built_my_own_rotary_tumbler.html&page=59 
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I don't wet tumble, yet. I will eventually go to wet tumbling just to get cases cleaner. it is not on my list of high priority projects. It is one project ahead of the case annealer I plan to build, someday.
I can't really see how wet tumbling is worse that dry but if it is on the internet it must be true. I really am not too worried about the "bling" part of wet tumbling. I just like the cleanliness of it. |
I will never wet tumble but doubt the small amount of galling the article talks about would cause notable accuracy issues for 99.999% of those who use this method. Now I have seen some nasty burrs dug up on bullets seated into cases that were not deburred which will cause runout if bad enough. Like I made in the pic below, I grabbed an undeburred case for a test seating and it gouged the hell out of this 230gr Hyb.(I stoned the burrs off and will use it for PSI testing). Those shown in the article are nothing like this though.
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