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Posted: 7/17/2018 12:50:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, I suppose some company could ask you to tattoo their logo onto your body for a discount, but that would be way stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My opinion of Q's childish marketing is starting to overwhelm my respect for their otherwise useful niche products. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 10:26:17 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, I suppose some company could ask you to tattoo their logo onto your body for a discount, but that would be way stupid. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 10:35:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Thankfully KB's working with the engineers at Sig has refined his designs more than his marketing trolling. I actually have no problem with asking somebody to trade their body as a billboard.
Asking people to launch a heavy metal object uncontrollably down range is irresponsible. With close to 50,000 ASR mounts in the wild I'm sure there is someone who will deliberately rifle grenade a demoed, beat-out Specwar just for a few moments of IG fame. I take this ploy as admission that video of mount failures is rare, perhaps because the failure mode is mostly user error and not as proudly displayed as a tat. I'm glad the industry is moving towards idiot proof mounts, as that feature is sorely needed as airsoft sprouts turn green. Anyway, the mount and brake are great products and will be a boon to those buying Energetics VOX, Form 1 builds, or anyone already invested in SiCo mount-adaptive suppressors. Their 1.375-24 mount thread spec is becoming a standard, mostly for the better. I'm looking forward to Howard making a Ti Cherry Bomb mount at half the price and 2/3 the weight. Q and Dead Air clearly see a market in selling these items for upgrade able suppressors and getting their robust mounts into more hands than just their suppressor base. All that and free entertainment. Waiting for Q-branded popcorn coated in scientific, oleophobe lube. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 11:58:47 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
50% off for the Plan B is tempting but I'm not a fan of muzzle brakes. I'd jump on this if there was a flash hider muzzle device. Has Q ever considered or hinted at making a flash hider mount with their taper system? ETA: just realized that if this is serious I'd have to do something deliberately stupid with a suppressor and document it. I wonder if they'd honor that with a Form 1 build. 
My opinion of Q's childish marketing is starting to overwhelm my respect for their otherwise useful niche products. It looks like some great products. And tapers have been used in most industries to give a good reliable hold/seal for long before ‘the original idea’. It’s always good to improve on a product, or on the shoulders of others ideas. And Its always good to idiot-proof stuff. I just find it funny how ‘their product is so terrible and poorly engineered, all marketing’ but I, being merciful, will make you an adapter to fit ‘Zeus's mount, an actual marvel to all mankind (even the animals tremble in all its glory) it really is that good, and its really, really, really, yes three times, light weight) back to what I was saying, all this to go on your stupid can that you were stupid enough to buy, from their stupid product line’. And because you will absolutely shoot your can off. First because I’m offering you to do so. Second because they didn’t engineer the stupid out of people. And Third because I didn’t make it. #metobutdidigetthejob, #noreallynotagain, #hombregetwellsoon, #buymystuffnowsoicanpayformyhelicopter, #hahatheyhavetotradetheirLamboin, #youknowimbetterthenyou, #anygoodmoviescomingoutsoon But who are we talking about again??? No but seriously they make some really cool stuff, and have vastly improved and gone steps further in this industry. But, just forgot to grow up... oh and #iwantadiscountifyoumakeaZeusproductline |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 1:35:46 PM EDT
[#5]
I believe that just as there are Never Trumpers, there are Never Silencerco grazers. In fairness SilencerCo brought it upon themselves somewhat with their hipster lifestyle marketing.
Q is trying to play the other side of that coin. Rebellion artifice. KB has stated he likes the culture of adolescent pursuits and smack down talk: wrestling, motocross, skateboarding. So he is marketing successfully to a particular demographic while they actually build thoughtful refined hardware. The short attention span, sound bite responsive get all they need from that, having the latest put-down product is important when you can only afford one and your ego is wrapped around your choices. These are the people who say bolt actions are obsolete, trade in a perfectly functional .40 they shoot well because the new hotness makes them feel inadequate, and put titanium pins in their AR to make it lighter while it sports an M4 barrel cut for an M203 they will never own. Once you own a bunch of tools you can appreciate their characteristics and appropriateness for any given use. There's a lot of misinformation and tribal, cargo cult knowledge out there. Unless I heard Mike Pappas wrong in the Q podcast, he was largely criticizing the older Trifecta mount for its failings over the current ASR mount. I look forward to buying appropriately functional and cheap SiCo muzzle devices and mounts in the EE as the Q herd dogs nip at the ankles on the bleeding edge of the herd. In a couple of years I'll snap up some barely used Cheery Bombz. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 2:28:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
50% off for the Plan B is tempting but I'm not a fan of muzzle brakes. I'd jump on this if there was a flash hider muzzle device. Has Q ever considered or hinted at making a flash hider mount with their taper system? 
This is the big issue I'm having with transitioning over-some of my rifles that aren't full time suppressed I just don't want a brake on. The weight is no contest, the qd reliability seems like a wash, and someone said cherry bombs torque on to non taper barrels fine. Ugh, keeping up with cool guy stuff is exhausting 
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Posted: 7/17/2018 2:43:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:My opinion of Q's childish marketing is starting to overwhelm my respect for their otherwise useful niche products. Quote HistoryQuoted:My opinion of Q's childish marketing is starting to overwhelm my respect for their otherwise useful niche products. Quoted:
In fairness SilencerCo brought it upon themselves somewhat with their hipster lifestyle marketing. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 2:46:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Valid through July 31st https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/334296/0D1589CA-B5F4-47A7-B337-144076BBA921-610115.JPG There are a couple more under that hashtag but they're older posts. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 3:13:00 PM EDT
[#9]
So much butthurt.
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Posted: 7/17/2018 3:21:51 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm way too invested in asr having two omegas and a hybrid. Mounts on probably 15-20 guns
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Posted: 7/17/2018 3:28:19 PM EDT
[#11]
You’d think SiCo would have fixed this given the KeyMo release which is arguably a “fuck you” as well.
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Posted: 7/17/2018 3:31:59 PM EDT
[#12]
The weld failure is a little disconcerting.
Memes are cute but it would be nice if those impacted would post the pedigree and flight history of the hardware. Other than Look-at-me-IG are there any forums where these incidents are discussed in detail? Maybe we can start a thread with links that can be pinned? In any other field where potential life support hardware has issues (climbing, diving, flying) the participants aren't so circumspect. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 4:45:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: #LaunchOneGetOne has its first contender. There are a couple more under that hashtag but they're older posts. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 6:41:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: #LaunchOneGetOne has its first contender. There are a couple more under that hashtag but they're older posts. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 6:48:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That guy is actually pretty smart using a Surefire suppressor. IIRC, that's the way Surefire recommends removing a stuck can. He just got half off from Q without damaging his can at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: #LaunchOneGetOne has its first contender. There are a couple more under that hashtag but they're older posts. If I was into that sort of thing. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 7:19:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really don't see how I couldn't just place my Saker 762 on the rifle without tightening it down, then launching it from the rifle. Seems like a pretty easy way to get free shit. If I was into that sort of thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: #LaunchOneGetOne has its first contender. There are a couple more under that hashtag but they're older posts. If I was into that sort of thing. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 7:36:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Use blanks if your worried about a baffle strike
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Posted: 7/17/2018 9:39:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Use blanks if your worried about a baffle strike |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 10:00:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really don't see how I couldn't just place my Saker 762 on the rifle without tightening it down, then launching it from the rifle. Seems like a pretty easy way to get free shit. If I was into that sort of thing. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 10:00:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Use blanks if your worried about a baffle strike 
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Posted: 7/17/2018 10:43:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really don't see how I couldn't just place my Saker 762 on the rifle without tightening it down, then launching it from the rifle. Seems like a pretty easy way to get free shit. I do find it amusing that he's asking you to post videos of QD suppressors being launched and then offering a discount on a direct thread suppressor as the reward. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 11:50:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, I suppose some company could ask you to tattoo their logo onto your body for a discount, but that would be way stupid.
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Posted: 7/18/2018 7:48:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Use blanks if your worried about a baffle strike lol |
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Posted: 7/18/2018 8:14:09 AM EDT
[#24]
My first can is an Omega and it should be out of jail in Nov/Dec so be gentle.
 Do I have this right? A cherry bomb would fit into the existing direct thread mount of the Omega perfectly. But that mount is much heavier than the Plan-B one that is not available yet? And the reason that I can't just unscrew the can from rifle A to rifle B with the direct thread mount is because without the taper that the c bomb provides, the threads on rifle A could become carbon locked and that is a bitch to deal with. Am I close? 
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Posted: 7/18/2018 9:19:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My first can is an Omega and it should be out of jail in Nov/Dec so be gentle. Do I have this right? A cherry bomb would fit into the existing direct thread mount of the Omega perfectly. But that mount is much heavier than the Plan-B one that is not available yet? And the reason that I can't just unscrew the can from rifle A to rifle B with the direct thread mount is because without the taper that the c bomb provides, the threads on rifle A could become carbon locked and that is a bitch to deal with. Am I close? The CB benefit over native Omega direct thread mounds is the taper. Tapers are more secure because of a larger area for friction and the taper binds differently than two square surfaces thrust together. A taper in front of the threads helps to seal out carbon on the exterior threads of the CB brake. ETA: A taper direct thread interface is theoretically no more precise than mating square shoulders. Two perfectly 90 degree surfaces mate as well as two perfectly 12-25 degree angled surfaces. The taper is somewhat more tolerant of fine contaminants as the circumferential motion wipes, grinds, and spreads the interference into a thinner film whereas two flat 90 degree surfaces will cock against the slop in the threads and set at a greater angle of interference. In summary, it's a fancy direct thread mount for a particular light radial brake limited to 2 thread pitches and 2 bores. The taper and thread order is the opposite of TBAC and Griffin so the seal feature isn't really needed but is thoughtful. The Plan B mount would work great on the tapered barrel of some Sig and the Fix rifles. |
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Posted: 7/18/2018 9:43:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Cherry Bomb is a Muzzle Brake that is only available in two thread pitch/bores. The 556 brake is threaded for 1/2-28 threaded muzzles. The 762 brake fits 5/8-24 threaded muzzles. Plan B is a Q mount that interfaces with the external taper and fine large OD threads of either Cherry Bomb. The Plan B mount OD is threaded 1.375-24 to fit in the rear of any ASR mount thread tube compatible with Omega 30, Hybrid, Big Bore Harvester. Plan B is a form of direct thread mount with taper with no moving parts. Thus even though it is steel, it is lighter than the native ASR mount. The CB brake is lighter than the ASR brakes or FH. The CB benefit over native Omega direct thread mounds is the taper. Tapers are more secure because of a larger area for friction and the taper binds differently than two square surfaces thrust together. A taper in front of the threads helps to seal out carbon on the exterior threads of the CB brake. In summary, it's a fancy direct thread mount for a particular light radial brake limited to 2 thread pitches and 2 bores. The taper and thread order is the opposite of TBAC and Griffin so the seal feature isn't really needed but is thoughtful. The Plan B mount would work great on the tapered barrel of some Sig and the Fix rifles.
I really like my Sig direct thread can and the tapered barrel interface. It stays very secure and there is no weight penalty for a QD mount on either the can or a muzzle device. KB can rub people the wrong way (me included sometimes) but you can't deny the beautiful simplicity and thought that goes into Q products. |
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Posted: 7/18/2018 10:14:35 AM EDT
[#27]
Agreed. It's elegant, robust, light and simple. I added comments above on the benefits of a taper.
But it may not solve people's problems with thread in ASR mounts. The 1.375-24 interface can still loosen. Q cans mounts are welded to the tube, as are TBAC and Griffin. The price of the versatility and adaptability of the Omega 30 and its cousins is you have to understand and pay attention. It's no different than any other direct thread mount you can change. The other benefit of detachable mounts is if your muzzle device unlocks and sticks in the mount you can unthread the mount from the can and access the front of the muzzle device to release it. Carbon on a direct thread can that you leave mounted fixes direct threads loosening off the muzzle threads. DT loosening is only an issue for people with one or a few cans they swap around frequently. A taper integral to the barrel is the lightest, simplest solution. Note that taper doesn't seal the threads, so that's a non issue. No can is quick disconnect once you heat it up. The fine threads of the Cherry Bomb aren't as fast attach as some others, but the real trade there is torque and robustness of the threads. Q deals with that with the taper location and angle. Course threads are fast, but need a locking feature. KB has forgotten more than most of us know about suppressor design and market, but he has little patience for engineering details and benefits from conflating competitor's versions, failure modes, and root cause. If his advertising said 'you are not to be trusted with a manual transmission, here's an idiot proof automatic that limits your choices but does exactly what I say it does' people would see his approach as the Apple of suppressors. Ultimately we benefit from the competition and get more choices. I just want people to understand the characteristics and trade-offs the different approaches present. |
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Posted: 7/18/2018 11:26:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, I suppose some company could ask you to tattoo their logo onto your body for a discount, but that would be way stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My opinion of Q's childish marketing is starting to overwhelm my respect for their otherwise useful niche products. |
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Posted: 7/19/2018 6:37:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its the Same Owner that did that. |
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Posted: 7/20/2018 12:45:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Anyone using the cherry bomb on a scar 17 yet? I'm wondering about how it works without a shoulder and if the kb ring is enough?
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Posted: 7/20/2018 1:45:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone using the cherry bomb on a scar 17 yet? I'm wondering about how it works without a shoulder and if the kb ring is enough? |
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Posted: 7/20/2018 5:50:31 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 7/20/2018 6:08:21 PM EDT
[#33]
~want intensifies~
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Posted: 7/20/2018 6:23:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
~want intensifies~ |
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Posted: 7/20/2018 7:03:00 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don’t want to speak out of turn but I believe a SCAR version is in the works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyone using the cherry bomb on a scar 17 yet? I'm wondering about how it works without a shoulder and if the kb ring is enough? |
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Posted: 7/20/2018 7:33:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote History |
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Posted: 7/20/2018 7:37:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, 3 Plan B's and a bunch of Cherry Bombs are in my future. |
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Posted: 7/20/2018 7:54:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks nice. But a muzzle brake with external threads for a can isn’t a new concept. What makes this special that I’m not seeing? |
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Posted: 7/20/2018 8:42:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, the Cherry Bomb can be accessed by a socket from the front of the mount. This is a failure mode if it happens to Griffins Ti minimalist brake inside a welded mount Griffin can. The other Griffin devices can be accessed from the rear with a pin spanner if they get stuck in the back of a welded can. With a threaded rear mount a punch can be inserted through the Ti brake gills to brake it loose. I have no doubt conventional 2-3 chamber brakes reduce recoil more, but radial port brakes have been around a long time. The MAS 49/56 muzzle device comes to mind. Precision Armament has some beautiful, intricately machined 360 degree low concussion brakes. Catalog page discussing taper mounts |
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Posted: 7/20/2018 9:36:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s nothing revolutionary but like most Q products it’s simple and smart. The big one is the taper in front of the threads to seal the carbon off from gunning the threads. It’s also a nice lightweight design. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Looks nice. But a muzzle brake with external threads for a can isn’t a new concept. What makes this special that I’m not seeing? |
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Posted: 7/20/2018 9:56:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are about 10,000 taper mount cans in end user hands. I personally do the warranty work on stuck muzzle devices, because there are so few it doesn't warrant training anyone here to do it. I've removed about 7 of them over the years. Most of the time, these involve mounts that weren't properly installed. Most of the stuck muzzle device stuff you hear is created by people who don't have the cans. We did answer that with a slot we mill in the back of all the muzzle devices now. There is a Recce Armorer's tool kit that consists of a piece of hardened steel you put in a vise, and a tool that interfaces the rear geometry on the can and accepts a 1/2" drive wrench and it removes the need for us to service the stuck mount. Catalog page discussing taper mounts Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well, the Cherry Bomb can be accessed by a socket from the front of the mount. This is a failure mode if it happens to Griffins Ti minimalist brake inside a welded mount Griffin can. The other Griffin devices can be accessed from the rear with a pin spanner if they get stuck in the back of a welded can. With a threaded rear mount a punch can be inserted through the Ti brake gills to brake it loose. I have no doubt conventional 2-3 chamber brakes reduce recoil more, but radial port brakes have been around a long time. The MAS 49/56 muzzle device comes to mind. Precision Armament has some beautiful, intricately machined 360 degree low concussion brakes. Catalog page discussing taper mounts @Green0 |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 1:41:23 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote History |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 1:44:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably dumb question, but these will still fit the original Saker correct? Like before Saker ASR, mine originally came with the Trifecta MAAD. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably dumb question, but these will still fit the original Saker correct? Like before Saker ASR, mine originally came with the Trifecta MAAD. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 1:49:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, all Sakers have the same thread size and pitch in the can, just came with a different mount module when they quit doing the MAAD. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:20:54 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That alone may get me to buy a Q Trash Panda for my 17s. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Anyone using the cherry bomb on a scar 17 yet? I'm wondering about how it works without a shoulder and if the kb ring is enough?  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 10:08:54 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 7/21/2018 11:52:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably dumb question, but these will still fit the original Saker correct? Like before Saker ASR, mine originally came with the Trifecta MAAD.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 6:05:17 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 7/21/2018 6:37:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote History Carbon fiber sleeved 300 black barrel" w/ adj. gas block?
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Posted: 7/21/2018 6:50:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote History |
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