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Posted: 9/27/2022 4:05:28 PM EDT
[#1]
I've already got lots of phantom devices for my T2, making me lean R2 instead of dual lok for 308. Without that history the dual lok looks hot. SS and the free stamp is a cock tease.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 4:17:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Never used a griffin but I do have a sandman and I love it. Keymo is definitely the best mounting solution I’ve used so far
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Posted: 9/27/2022 4:50:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Sandman no doubt
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Posted: 9/27/2022 4:51:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Hard to beat the Nomad with Xeno mounts.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 5:49:59 PM EDT
[#5]
A heavier can won't ever be lighter.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 6:04:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A heavier can won't ever be lighter. Some people like curves. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 6:16:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Do you have a full auto or bumpfire d60s in rapid succession? If you don't there really is no compelling reason to get a sandman. It's heavy and doesn't perform impressively in sound or flash.
I would get the Griffen of the two. If you want deadair the nomad is a much better can as long as you don't add keymo to it and make it heavy. If this is your first can I promise you you should prioritize weight. Heavy cans take the fun out of them. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 6:17:24 PM EDT
[#8]
I'd go with the Griffin can just because of the weight. The DL7 is 5 ounces lighter than the Sandman S, that's a dramatic difference. SS also has a free tax stamp on the DL7 until the end of the month.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 6:25:54 PM EDT
[#9]
I’d also look at the Griffin Explorr line, taper mount version if you’re ok with being wedded to a mounting system or the utility mount version if you want future-proof mount modularity. Both are lighter than the dual lok.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:00:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A heavier can won't ever be lighter. A lighter can won't ever be more durable. 
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Posted: 9/27/2022 8:18:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lighter can won't ever be more durable. Obviously you guys also sell the Nomad which is lighter duty than our Dual Lok, and we also sell a Recce 7, and a 30SDK. There won't be any compatibility issues with our cans caused by parts made by different vendors, because we make all of our silencer products and silencer accessories here. I kind of like lighter cans for their practicality in the field. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:34:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Keymo is one of the longest, heaviest, and most expensive mounting systems out there. I wouldn’t want to be wedded to that system based on my first can purchase. The Dual-Lok looks nifty, but I like the weight and simplicity of Griffin’s Plan A taper mount system. I’d look at the Explorr line with either the built-in Plan A or the utility mount for future flexibility. For DA, I’d look at the Nomad and skip the Keymo pig.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:45:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a "do it most" suppressor, and I've gotten mostly settled on a Griffin Dual-Lok 7 or Dead Air Sandman S. Griffin is winning in the weight category, but I don't know much about the Dual-Lok attachment system. The Sandman S was the most appealing to me until I took a look at the newer Griffin offerings. Any insight or advice? They're pretty close in price when accounting for current promos. Based on my three Griffin rifle cans with eco-flow baffles that cleared over the last six months, I'm completely sold on them. I've not heard their new dual-lok cans, but that mounting system does not interest me over their standard taper system. My Dead Air Nomad is fantastic but is louder than my new Recce 7 (poor comparison, Recce 7 is quite a bit longer). I bring this up because I have heard many state that the Nomad is quieter than the Sandman S (never heard one). Sound performance is certainly not the sole determinant when it comes to picking a can, but with eco-flow cans like the gen 2 Explorr 300, Paladin 300, and Dual-lok 7 (if the new mount is attractive to you) that are also lightweight, I don't think I would bother looking at anything else if I was in the market for yet another 30 cal can for gas guns. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:53:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Nomad over Sandman.
I have the Sandman-K, Sandman-S, Sandman-L, Nomad, Nomad-L and Nomad-LT. Most shooters are well served by a Nomad TI or Nomad-LT if shooting semi auto. If you want more durability and are willing to trade weight the Nomad and Nomad-L are excellent. If you shoot full auto a decent amount, then the Sandman line makes sense. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:04:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lighter can won't ever be more durable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A heavier can won't ever be lighter. A lighter can won't ever be more durable. Just to throw gas on this fire, I submit the Vox S. Lighter than a Sandman S and arguably as (if not more) durable. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 10:09:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you have a full auto or bumpfire d60s in raid succession? If you don't there really is no compelling reason to get a sandman. It's heavy and doesn't perform impressively in sound or flash. I would get the Griffen of the two. If you want deadair the nomad is a much better can as long as you don't add keymo to it and make it heavy. If this is your first can I promise you you should prioritize weight. Heavy cans take the fun out of them. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 2:17:11 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just to throw gas on this fire, I submit the Vox S. Lighter than a Sandman S and arguably as (if not more) durable. I hate to be the guy to have say this but C300 steel will never be more durable than Stellite. And thin-walled C300 vs thick Stellite makes it case closed. It's a really cool material, but it's not magical. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 2:35:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Obviously you guys also sell the Nomad which is lighter... And you make my point by responding to that. You reduced the OPs question to negative response about your competitor with no meaningful message. For the OP, I really recommend our Nomad line. You'll find a suppressor that is as durable as you'll probably ever need while being extremely flexible across mounts, multiple calibers, and different pressures (subs to magnum pressures). If you really shoot A LOT then the Sandman will take whatever you throw at it. Mounting options for the Nomad include the Xeno and KeyMo systems. --Xeno will give you all the benefits of a super precise thread-to-taper system and keep it really light. --KeyMo is recognized as arguably the best fast-attach and robust system out there. It comes with added weight, although it's about 25% lighter at this point that it was back when it left Peachy with scars. Plus there are some much lighter muzzle devices out now than the chonky full size brake that comes with the Sandman. My favorite setup right now is the Nomad-Ti with Xeno. It's well into the extremely lightweight side of things and the can is still robust to handle some rapid fire if needed. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 8:42:42 AM EDT
[#19]
A few thoughts on this discussion from someone who owns both the Sandman S and the Griffin Dual Lok (556 version).
First of all… my dual lok is backordered from SilencerShop. I haven’t shot it yet. I’ve only played with someone else’s a little bit, so my perspective on it is limited. Sandman S was my first can, about 4 years ago. I’ve since bought two more. It is one of my favorite cans. I’ve run them a ton, and true to their reputation, no issues. They are as durable as it gets. I know it doesn’t have a reputation for being exceptionally quiet, but I love the way it sounds. Great tone, and I think suppression is pretty good. Keymo is a fantastic mounting system, if you like that sort of mounting system. The compatible muzzle device options are great, and the system functions extremely well. The Sandman S is heavy. There’s no getting around that. It’s not so heavy that it’s just horrible to shoot or anything, but sometimes, a lighter weight option is nice. That’s why I bought the Griffin. It feels extremely well-built and saves a lot of weight. I don’t expect it to be as durable as the Sandman, but I don’t expect it to explode during an intensive carbine class or anything either. I’m really excited to try it. I played with my friend’s and then went and ordered one a few minutes later. My early thoughts are that the mounting system is pretty cool and functions well. It seems like it locks up nicely. I don’t think it’s as easy to operate as keymo though. I think Keymo is probably a superior system, but I reserve the right to change my mind once I get a little more experience with dual lok. As for the Nomad… that’s also a great can. The options for mounting make it attractive. It performs extremely well on a variety of hosts. I have a couple and could not be happier. Really versatile and great suppression across a variety of platforms. And it is time-tested. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 10:34:51 AM EDT
[#20]
My vote is Sandman S. I have one and love it!
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Posted: 9/28/2022 11:32:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And you make my point by responding to that. You reduced the OPs question to negative response about your competitor with no meaningful message. For the OP, I really recommend our Nomad line. You'll find a suppressor that is as durable as you'll probably ever need while being extremely flexible across mounts, multiple calibers, and different pressures (subs to magnum pressures). If you really shoot A LOT then the Sandman will take whatever you throw at it. Mounting options for the Nomad include the Xeno and KeyMo systems. --Xeno will give you all the benefits of a super precise thread-to-taper system and keep it really light. --KeyMo is recognized as arguably the best fast-attach and robust system out there. It comes with added weight, although it's about 25% lighter at this point that it was back when it left Peachy with scars. Plus there are some much lighter muzzle devices out now than the chonky full size brake that comes with the Sandman. My favorite setup right now is the Nomad-Ti with Xeno. It's well into the extremely lightweight side of things and the can is still robust to handle some rapid fire if needed. If the nomad is as durable as a person will probably ever need, then you have made my point that the sandman s is carrying some extra weight. I know the dual lok 7 can take 100 rd 240 belt in 9 seconds without any damage. I also know majority people don’t have 240’s and don’t run semi auto 308’s that hard due to many reasons including the price of ammo and the inability to change magazines or manipulate triggers at that speed. The 240 is obviously a gun that should get a very specific suppressor designed for it, if the end user is a 240 specific military or heavy recreational customer. There is a reason the 240 weighs 3 times as much as a AR10. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 11:46:21 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It comes with added weight, although it's about 25% lighter at this point that it was back when it left Peachy with scars. I suppose an ad hominem shot is a predictable response when facts aren’t on your side. Even with weight reductions, Keymo is still longer, heavier, and more expensive than most other options in an application where being long, heavy, and expensive aren’t desirable (well maybe expensive is desirable to some folks for the ‘Gram; I’ll give you that). |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 12:35:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suppose an ad hominem shot is a predictable response when facts aren’t on your side. Even with weight reductions, Keymo is still longer, heavier, and more expensive than most other options in an application where being long, heavy, and expensive aren’t desirable (well maybe expensive is desirable to some folks for the ‘Gram; I’ll give you that). Heavy weight is one of the major drawbacks of QD systems in general. That's part of the reason it took us 11 years to introduce Dual Lok. We identified that some customers wanted the rigidity of the taper mount, with a locking mechanism in 2011 (most of these issues are simple mental doubt issues). Most of the ideas we ever had were quite heavy. I think Sig's clutch lock system is really neat, but I'm fairly certain it is even heavier than the Keymo system. That's kind of an issue with the Sig design. You want to put as much of the suppressor weight as possible into the suppressor itself to assist the suppressor in being durable. Designing a mechanically redundant locking mount was sort of there in the background all the time, but if the solution was going to make a suppressor substantially heavier, it was garbage and we threw it out. Useless muzzle device length is another design issue with QD mounts. Ideally a QD muzzle device should have as little useless length as possible. Useless length will make all the mounts heavier, and will also make designing good performing muzzle devices more challenging in a unit of length. Also randomly seen is the characteristic of some QD systems to add system length in the mounted configuration to the attached sound suppressor. That's an issue that somewhat impacts practicality. I believe the clutch lock system adds ~.350" of length there. Dual lok suppressors mount .03" rear of the thread shoulder. We also have bayonet mounts that reduce mounted length by a further .760" beyond that. At that point the cans are typically lighter and shorter than some marketed mini or K models. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 12:51:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suppose an ad hominem shot is a predictable response when facts aren’t on your side. Even with weight reductions, Keymo is still longer, heavier, and more expensive than most other options in an application where being long, heavy, and expensive aren’t desirable (well maybe expensive is desirable to some folks for the ‘Gram; I’ll give you that). It's not an ad hominem shot when I only know your name on this forum for posting the same thing all the time. I get it. You're a weight weenie (to use a bicyclist term). Ironically, I am too. Hence the work to make the system lighter. It's going to continually evolve that way, but you'd be surprised at the resistance of how many people like it the way it is. I suppose that's the force you're really opposing. As far as length, don't get caught up on spreadsheet tables. The system is long, but it also fully encapsulates the muzzle device. If you care about the length of the suppressor off the gun, then you've got a point. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 12:56:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not an ad hominem shot when I only know your name on this forum for posting the same thing all the time. I get it. You're a weight weenie (to use a bicyclist term). Ironically, I am too. Hence the work to make the system lighter. It's going to continually evolve that way, but you'd be surprised at the resistance of how many people like it the way it is. I suppose that's the force you're really opposing. As far as length, don't get caught up on spreadsheet tables. The system is long, but it also fully encapsulates the muzzle device. If you care about the length of the suppressor off the gun, then you've got a point. Even if you want to call yourself a weenie, it probably is a faux pas to call other people a weenie. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 1:13:32 PM EDT
[#26]
 Everyone here is wrong. The correct choice is the Socom762-Mini2, which happens to be what I picked. 
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Posted: 9/28/2022 2:56:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if you want to call yourself a weenie, it probably is a faux pas to call other people a weenie. Dude. Using "faux pas" in the same sentence when mentioning weenie twice is a total faux pas.  Lol. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 3:07:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if you want to call yourself a weenie, it probably is a faux pas to call other people a weenie. Yes. Follow green oh for all your social etiquette needs 
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Posted: 9/28/2022 4:02:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Why is it every time the Griffin guy shows up in a thread it ends up purse swinging?
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Posted: 9/28/2022 4:13:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is it every time the Griffin guy shows up in a thread it ends up purse swinging? EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 4:23:41 PM EDT
[#31]
For what it’s worth, I didn’t take offense to being labelled a “weight weenie.” I’m not a cyclist, but I’ve done a lot of backpacking and knew what Todd meant.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 4:37:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Follow green oh for all your social etiquette needs Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Even if you want to call yourself a weenie, it probably is a faux pas to call other people a weenie. Yes. Follow green oh for all your social etiquette needs I laughed I love this place |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 5:10:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I laughed I love this place Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Even if you want to call yourself a weenie, it probably is a faux pas to call other people a weenie. Yes. Follow green oh for all your social etiquette needs I laughed I love this place +1 |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 5:53:49 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For what it's worth, I didn't take offense to being labelled a "weight weenie." I'm not a cyclist, but I've done a lot of backpacking and knew what Todd meant. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:00:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's where I'm at. Surefire durability sounds cool until you hump up a mountain with a rifle once or twice. I don't do consecutive mag dumps with a giggle switch and something like a explorr can more than handle the rate of fire someone with a s/a carbine will put it through at about half the weight. But calling it “belt fed rated” seems disingenuous to me. Some people do have FA and need the durability. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:15:09 PM EDT
[#36]
No experience with Griffen but my sandman S is awesome.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:19:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But calling it "belt fed rated" seems disingenuous to me. Some people do have FA and need the durability. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:30:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone with a beltfed mg is going to understand what kind of fire schedule you can put something through before it fails. A lot of belt feds have quick change barrels because life is not like video games and you can't just hold down the trigger as long as you want. The Sandman is a machine gun can the Explorr isn’t. It’s disingenuous for anyone to claim otherwise. Limited testing on a belt fed does not make it a machine gun can. I’m glad it suits your use case but that’s not everyone’s case. Durability is the issue. It’s the same issue with Q/KB claiming the same. (In titanium) |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 7:48:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Sandman S all the way.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 7:49:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is it every time the Griffin guy shows up in a thread it ends up purse swinging? Yep....and it is kind of sad. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 7:51:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sandman S all the way. Nomad |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 7:58:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nomad Nomad is awesome also, but I didn't think it was in his final two. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 8:08:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Not enough info from OP to make any recommendations. Other cans already owned? Use cases or firing schedules? Budget? Pretty much every major suppressor line has something that can be a good fit.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:10:02 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not enough info from OP to make any recommendations. Other cans already owned? Use cases or firing schedules? Budget? Pretty much every major suppressor line has something that can be a good fit.  Agreed. Couldn't have said it any better. OP, I tend to tell the folks that ask about what is the best rimfire can I say the same about the 30 caliber ones. The market is so full of win its hard to pick a complete turd. YHM and Rex Silentium make some awesome value options. Rugged, Silencer Co, Energetic etc... all have some fantastic mid tier options and then on the high end, Surefire have durable battlefield proven units where Thunderbeast have precision oriented ones. As Kalman has suggested a little more intended use case information will help in making suggestions. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:13:51 PM EDT
[#45]
When I started business in 2005, a lot of cans for .308 weighed 25 ounces or more- most often 10" long. Those cans were built to ride a rifle on a bench. They had no practical purpose in reality.
A magazine of .308 weighs quite a bit if you're actually wearing it with kit, going on a mission on foot (which isn't terrifically dissimilar to hunting or even running around on a flat range). I was issued an M14 and I carried 5 magazines (I was issued 6 but I carried 5. That's 100 rounds- it weighs 8 lbs in the M14 steel magazines, in addition to 20lbs of armor, and water. The 12.5 ounce can that can take the 100 rounds in 9 seconds, is as durable as anything a .308 rifleman will ever need. I saw SF soldiers do dismounted missions with an SR25 and 4, 20 round magazines. That's probably because they knew that was all the ammo they would ever need on a mission. In WWII a M1 Garand basic load was 88 rounds. They didn't have 18lbs of extra armor, but it was still around the same number of rounds they carried. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:47:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I started business in 2005, a lot of cans for .308 weighed 25 ounces or more- most often 10" long. Those cans were built to ride a rifle on a bench. They had no practical purpose in reality. A magazine of .308 weighs quite a bit if you're actually wearing it with kit, going on a mission on foot (which isn't terrifically dissimilar to hunting or even running around on a flat range). I was issued an M14 and I carried 5 magazines (I was issued 6 but I carried 5. That's 100 rounds- it weighs 8 lbs in the M14 steel magazines, in addition to 20lbs of armor, and water. The 12.5 ounce can that can take the 100 rounds in 9 seconds, is as durable as anything a .308 rifleman will ever need. I saw SF soldiers do dismounted missions with an SR25 and 4, 20 round magazines. That's probably because they knew that was all the ammo they would ever need on a mission. In WWII a M1 Garand basic load was 88 rounds. They didn't have 18lbs of extra armor, but it was still around the same number of rounds they carried. Didn’t you build 1911s, or collect them or something too?? maybe that’s relevant as well… Op, I’d try to shoot both, heft both, don’t limit yourself unless that’s the only one you can find locally and see which one you prefer. I still run my saker 5.56 without feeling like it’s too heavy and that’s a beast of a can. Choose one based on what you need/want and with any reputable mfg, you won’t go wrong. Of those choices, I’d go sandman, but the nomad is my favorite. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 11:25:44 PM EDT
[#47]
That was related to conversation/posts about a machine gun can.
I guess a better question would be whether a person had a .308 machine gun they wanted to suppress. Its a really small market segment. We run a recce 7 on our 240L as more of a 240 companion can. It is durable enough for us. If we wanted to joy ride the piss out of the $17,000 gun, (running it more than 200-300 rounds before a substantial break for complete cooling), we would make a more 240 specific model. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 5:08:23 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not enough info from OP to make any recommendations. Other cans already owned? Use cases or firing schedules? Budget? Pretty much every major suppressor line has something that can be a good fit. Honestly, I assumed the thread was bait. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 7:38:05 AM EDT
[#49]
skip dual lok, go with taper mount and the explorr 30.
I shoot my explorr 224 on my MG. I think durability is an over rated characteristic for most people, and they end up with an unnecessarily heavy silencer. Never in my life have I desired to mag dump 6 mags back to back to warrant an 18 0z can. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 1:31:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Sandman is a machine gun can the Explorr isn’t. It’s disingenuous for anyone to claim otherwise. Limited testing on a belt fed does not make it a machine gun can. I’m glad it suits your use case but that’s not everyone’s case. Durability is the issue. It’s the same issue with Q/KB claiming the same. (In titanium) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Someone with a beltfed mg is going to understand what kind of fire schedule you can put something through before it fails. A lot of belt feds have quick change barrels because life is not like video games and you can't just hold down the trigger as long as you want. The Sandman is a machine gun can the Explorr isn’t. It’s disingenuous for anyone to claim otherwise. Limited testing on a belt fed does not make it a machine gun can. I’m glad it suits your use case but that’s not everyone’s case. Durability is the issue. It’s the same issue with Q/KB claiming the same. (In titanium) Would be interested to see the Explorr torture test |
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