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Posted: 10/22/2001 12:36:08 PM EDT
[#1]
I can go along with that.  FWIW, I own (2) service grade M1's, a match M1, a match M1A, a match AR, and a DSA STG58A FAL (and have shot one of DSA's top-o-the-line FAL's I still prefer the M1. No other rifle has what it it has. Ever. Its a preference item. Comparing the FAL to teh M1 head-to-head is like comparing apples and mack trucks. |
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Posted: 10/22/2001 1:01:51 PM EDT
[#2]
I've yet to see a CMP garand that wasn't worth the $ 500 ,Yes some are well used but most are really nice. Youre chances of getting an M1 from the CMP that is worth more than $ 500 is very good ! As for Miltech, they overcharge for what you get if you ever do get it. Orion 7 has a good reputation but charges yu for it ! $ 1200 is to much for a refinished service grade that you would have a hard time reselling for $ 700.
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Posted: 10/22/2001 1:10:50 PM EDT
[#3]
I've heard that SteyrAUG sells M1 Garands for $400.
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Posted: 10/22/2001 1:33:22 PM EDT
[#4]
If a rifle can be dead-sexy it would be the FAL. Plus there is a very good reason something like 90 western countries adopted it as a service rifle. I have always wanted one.
But if I could only get one it would be the M1. It is after all part of our American heritage. I bought mine several years ago and love it. Buy one rebarreled to .308 and you can shoot the cheap surplus stuff. More cheaper ammo means more cheaper shootn'. And that is always a good thing. If you plan on shooting a lot this might be the better way to go. The Danish M1's are rifles that were rebuilt by the Danes after the war using Danish and some Italian parts. These are good servicable rifles that will have plenty of life and use left in them. Their cheaper, not because they aren't any good, but because EVERYONE wants a USGI M1. Supply and Demand. |
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Posted: 10/22/2001 3:41:25 PM EDT
[#5]
CMP M1 GARAND
Every one we get is one saved from the US Govt. cutting torch and scrapyard. My CMP Garand is the best money I've ever spent. It's easy for Orion7 to re-barrel it for 7.62NATO if you wish. Flash suppressors are legal. 8round en-bloc clips can be left loaded for 50years+ without going bad. Here's mine, that's grease, not rust. 
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Posted: 10/22/2001 8:10:52 PM EDT
[#6]
I own both FALS and an M1 Garand and a BM59..my opinion is that you should get the Garand first.
Here is why: (1.) The sheer history of the rifle. Some GI could very well have used it in Combat. (2.) The rifle has a proven history of being reliable, and shooting in a variety of field conditions. Every thing from the hot volcanic Sands of Iwo Jima, to the Muddy Jungles of Burma to the Frozen Hell of the Battle of the Bulge and the Chosin Reservoir. To shooting it like crazy all night during full scale frontal assaults on Pork Chop Hill against hordes of Chicoms. (3.) This is for Christmas, right ? During Christmas we want to get something "Special". And the Garand is very "Special". Its history, its caliber (30-06) which is more powerful than 7.62 NATO, its potential for accuracy, its Sights (which are superior to the FAL). Yes it is a funky rifle that has some serious drawbacks..but it is very reliable, very powerful, and very accurate. Right now there is a bill in congress which is threatening to destroy the remaining stocks of M1 Garands. These rifles helped fight the Nazis and Japanese and helped free Europe and Asia. Get the Garand. It isn't as "modern" as the FAL. But it is a very special rifle more so than the FAL. |
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Posted: 10/22/2001 8:25:54 PM EDT
[#7]
One you ALL didn't think of. Waverunner lives in NY so he does get snow in the winter. With a M1 Garand he can run around outside playing "Battle of the Bulge."
I can hear him now.... "NUTS!" "That's right, I said NUTS!" "Take that ya kraut bastards....NUTS!" "HE HE....hey you over there.....NUTS!" It's ok he's a cop, he won't be in jail very long. |
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Posted: 10/22/2001 8:43:22 PM EDT
[#8]
As to the Danish garands. Ugly as hell and got it cheap as the guys I trade with didn't like it after it came in. When it shot circles around a customized Springfield with national match sites they wanted it back. Less than 2" @ 100 with open sights. With $1,000 get both a $400 Danish and a CMP $500 service grade. Shoot the hell out of the Danish and keep the CMP for the history. Buy that $500 FAL next year. Bush is in the big house to stay for awhile.
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Posted: 10/22/2001 9:09:24 PM EDT
[#9]
If your gonna get an M1 you should get one through CMP. Then if you want to "accurrize" it send it to www.fulton-armory.com
A DSA FAL is really nice too! |
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Posted: 10/22/2001 10:08:49 PM EDT
[#10]
You can use the M1 as a service rifle in Highpower competition. Highpower is one of the best routes to first rate rifle shooting. You can't legally put a folding stock or flashhider on a FAL. You could put either one on a Garand. The obsolete .30-06 can legally use AP ammo, and it has more horsepower than .308 in any case. And the Garand has a longer sight radious and better sights. The pistol grip is a disadvantage in hand to hand fighting, and is only used on "modern" rifles because in-line stocks pretty much require pistol grips. I like the FAL and the AR, but I don't consider their pistol grips an advantage. |
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Posted: 10/22/2001 10:13:44 PM EDT
[#11]
The FAL has problems with dirt and sand, which is one of the reasons Israel dropped it as a combat arm. So yes, you have to worry about getting it dirty. |
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Posted: 10/22/2001 10:21:53 PM EDT
[#12]
M1 has history and collector value. But the FAL (I presume it's a post ban rifle) at least you can fun blasting away at the targets. I perfer the balsting value.
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Posted: 10/23/2001 6:04:59 AM EDT
[#13]
 I got my Danish M1 from CMP last march. These were loaned to Denmark after ww2, which means before that they were in the hands of americans fighting the germans in europe. You pretty much know theres a big chance these saw combat in europe, whereas the history of a service grade is much more uncertain. The stocks are different than regular u.s. garands, and theres a few parts that are baretta instead of springfield armory, but they're same dang parts - who cares. Also the VAR barrels used on many danes are considered better than standard u.s. barrels. The danes kept these rifles in good mechanical condition. My M1 - like the rest - will shoot poorly or accurately depending on the quality of ammo used. |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 6:31:18 AM EDT
[#14]
All True. But I wonder how a M1 Garand with similar tolerances would perform in a harsh desert environment. US forces didn't factor heavily into the North Africa campaign in WW2 and the two principal countries England and Germany both used bolt action rifles. |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 7:56:09 AM EDT
[#15]
Aside from the fact that the Brits and the Axis forces used LOTS of types of small arms that were not bolt-action rifles, one could only answer this question by a direct side-by-side comparison.
In his book "Ordnance Went Up Front", Roy F Dunlap comments in extreme detail on virtually all small arms he encountered in world-wide US Army service during WWII. His only complaints specific to the Garand are that is is too heavy, and its 8-rd clip system is awkward and slow. His comments on the Garand in Africa and on over-beach use indicate that the M1 needed to be kept reasonably clean of sand, but no more so than any other rifle, regardless of action design. See pgs. 293-296. BTW, the book is a treasure, and I recommend it highly. |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 9:59:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Looks like I'll be getting the M1 Garand. Question now is Service Grade for $500 or Danish for $400?
Hey SteyerAUG wanna play in the snow??? "NUTS" If I can work it out somehow maybe I'll pick up the FAL from you ALSO! |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 10:09:03 AM EDT
[#17]
I heard that the furniture on the Danish ones weren't as good as the US ones. BUT if the Danish barrels are better, maybe I can slap on one of those new Boyds stocks and presto! Awesome shooter WITH good looks! Man am I excited now... 
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Posted: 10/23/2001 10:14:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Good luck Waverunner. Don't forget the Synth Ram-Line stock @ Natchez Shooters Supply for $50, and don't forget that you can still shoot in sanctioned service rifle matches if you convert your M1 to 7.62. Btw, thank you for your efforts in NYC.
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Posted: 10/23/2001 10:24:19 AM EDT
[#19]
I would recommend the service grade , I've gotten 5 danes ( and looked over probably 20 others) and they can be hit and miss. Three were excellent with new barrels but the other 2 were dogs. All the service grades have been really good, afew really nice ones" unissued rebuilds" like the one in the photo's above.
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Posted: 10/23/2001 10:30:23 AM EDT
[#20]
I have both .... but I can say that Garanditis is a lot more dangerous than being a FALoholic ..... even worse if you got both of them ....
Save the Garand, give it a good home ... they are part of our history !!! |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 12:21:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Go service grade for $500.00, unless you wanna get one of them affordable Winchesters? NUTS! |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 12:31:28 PM EDT
[#22]
I believe the Israelis added sand cuts to the bolt carrier to solve the sand problem. AFAIK, they are still using the HBs over there. |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 12:42:38 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 10/23/2001 12:45:13 PM EDT
[#24]
I agree with raf. If you want a good FAL (flash supressor, all the goodies), and not put together with shit parts, then you will spend 1000+.
You gotta love the M1 garand. American, for one. Powerful, for two. Historical, three. If it is to be used for deer hunting...even better. Get the M1. (Yes, and eventually get a FAL). |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 12:51:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Did I mention you should get the Garand??
 Get the Garand first. You'll be buying another rifle within a year - you KNOW you will. Get the FAL then. |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 12:59:26 PM EDT
[#26]
I believe the CMP now allows you to purchase up to 5 Garands per year. Any confirmation of this?
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Posted: 10/23/2001 1:07:15 PM EDT
[#27]
A local sporting goods store is advertising M1 Garands for $449. What should I be looking for when I go to take a look? What markings, dates, parts, etc.?
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Posted: 10/23/2001 2:00:29 PM EDT
[#28]
You should note the lack of the markings "US Rifle" and manufacturer markings such as:
Springfield Armory Winchester International Harvestor Harrington & Richardson It will be a blank receiver because even Century Arms won't stamp that name on their guns anymore. |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 3:32:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Ask and ye shall recieve: www.smithenterprise.com www.natchezss.com The T-37 is good, but the vortex is much better. Trust me. Ignore the price, and shop around. IIRC, best price is about $60, BEWARE of fakes. |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 3:40:30 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/23/2001 4:19:16 PM EDT
[#31]
OK, OK don't "cheap out" and get the Danish. Placing one order for US service grade!
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Posted: 10/23/2001 4:30:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Vortex attaches as does the original gas cyl lock. Ram-Line stock is a near copy of the original, except it needs less metal, an is paintable, if desired. No BS grooves, etc. It's a class act.
Genuine USGI T37s are WAY more than you quoted. Shoot yours and see if the ends splay out. They will if it's a gunshow fake. Go Smith, and search for better prices. Delta Press has 'em. ADDITION: I've been told by Informed individuals whom I have come to trust that the only way to be sure that a flash suppressor is genuine USGI is to buy the thing still in the original sealed paper-like bag. Thus the high price for one NIW. That was my original meaning. The fakes ARE very convincing, but there is also another way to tell. The originals are cast, forged, and then machined, while the fakes omit the forging step, and so are prone to splaying open under use. If you bang the tines lightly, like a tuning fork, the forged ones have a sort of "ring" that the cast fakes don't have. The fakes are sort of dull. Similar thing is dropping a silver quarter, and a modern composition coin. Hope this helps, and I sincerely hope your suppressor is genuine. |
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Posted: 10/23/2001 7:10:57 PM EDT
[#33]
I have CMP 1943 SA Garand. Came with a NEW military barrel that did need touch up crowning. Disadvantge is difficult to find cheap 30-06 compared to 308. CMP is running out.I dont want to give more than $5 a 20 round box. All $500 FAL I have seen appeared to be poor quality but the $800-$1000 new ones are excellent. For the price the Garand wins.
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Posted: 10/23/2001 7:24:07 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 10/23/2001 8:57:17 PM EDT
[#35]
raf, look at these pictures and see if you can tell. It looks GI to me, but who knows.
  
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Posted: 10/23/2001 10:50:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Been reading the posts on Garands. Is there a site address for CMP? If not, how do you contact CMP? Thanks.
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Posted: 10/23/2001 11:14:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Looks OK, but then, don't they all? Shoot and see if it lasts. ADDY for ODCMP is : www.odcmp.com
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Posted: 10/24/2001 9:01:09 AM EDT
[#38]
Kali is not all of the west. It is bordered on all sides by free states without the headaches that our friends have to deal with. No problemos with FALs in Idaho.
BTW, the FAL is a FAR superior battle rifle than the Garand, and I have both to compare. My opinions of course. Talyn |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:32:04 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 3/24/2002 11:09:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Where can I get the Garand flash hider for $27.50?
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Posted: 3/25/2002 2:26:21 AM EDT
[#41]
I would go with the FAL. It's a more modern gun and has alot going for it for general use as well.
The FAL gives you: 1)20rd detatchable mag 2)A variety of different parts from different countries to customize it yourself at home. 3).308 is FAR cheaper than .30-06, and despite what three people have claimed, it's a better performing cartridge. M80 ball HAS longer range than the M2 ball (800m vs 600m) when tested on the NATO steel test plate during the 5.56mm trials. The 7.62mm 147gr bullet is a better design than the .30-06 150gr, so it retains energy longer. Since there's only 3 grains difference and 5 fps velocity difference between the two (2800 vs 2805 fps), the claimed power advantage of the .30cal just doesn't exist in reality. 4)Adjustable gas system. Reference above. The M1 also needs to use ammo that's very close to GI performance. Too little power and it doesn't run. Too much and it stands a great chance of bending an oprod (again, so much for the vaunted advantage of .30-06). The FAL will CYCLE on everything from .55gr accellerators to 180 gr soft-points by just adjusting the gas to work with that round. 5)Easier way to mount optics. There is NO good way to mount a scope on an M1. With the FAL, you can mount a scope and have back-up iron sights. I'm not going to knock the M1. I own three. They are great rifles and still will hold their own, but the FAL is a bit more of an updated design. I'd say if you're buying a rifle for use, get the FAL. If you're buying one for sentimental value, get the M1. Ross |
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Posted: 3/25/2002 8:07:06 AM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 3/25/2002 8:13:04 AM EDT
[#43]
A Garand is a must for any gun collection, I agree, CMP is the only way to go.
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Posted: 3/25/2002 8:59:20 AM EDT
[#44]
This is my first post here, and I have never shot a FAL, but between me, my dad, and my brother we have 5 M1 Garands and are happy with every one.
4 of these were from the CMP. The first 2 had beautiful stocks and little to no headspace wear. One of these was a low SN Winchester that was traded for a NM Springfield. The next 2 were service grades and one of them had a stock that looked like it had run the bayonet course for years, but it shoots well. Last winter I put a new walnut stock on it and now it looks nicer than all of the others. My brother wound up with a nice looking and even better shooting H&R service grade. All the CMP rifles get shot at high power matches during the summer. Last year the three of us shot together in the Garand match at Camp Perry. I also shot on a rattle battle M1 team with the NM Springfield. This may be treason to say here, but I enjoy shooting the M1 in matches more than the AR15. No, it is not nearly as accurate, especially in rapid fire, but IMHO it is more fun. Glad to hear you are ordering a US service grade. If you shoot any CMP high power matches you will enjoy having an M1. Even if you don't, it will still be a joy to shoot. The 5th M1 is my deer rifle. |
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Posted: 3/25/2002 10:14:09 AM EDT
[#45]
Or two! 
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Posted: 3/25/2002 1:51:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Garand.
Obsolete? Ask the guy who you shot with it. Oh wait, he's dead now, nevermind. The FAL is great, love them, but Americans just make better guns. |
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Posted: 3/25/2002 1:56:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Wave,for some nice M1's go to www.scott-duff.com and drool.
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Posted: 3/25/2002 2:47:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Accept no imitations and grab an M1. The fal may be the rifle of the free world BUT The garand is the greatest battle implement ever devised.hout |
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Posted: 3/25/2002 3:10:42 PM EDT
[#49]
I wonder if the guys that ran that test were the same bunch that tried to sabotage the M16 Arctic tests. At any rate, for me, I'd like one each: M1, M14 and FAL! Going to go for a CMP Garand this year, hopefully. |
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Posted: 3/25/2002 9:11:19 PM EDT
[#50]
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