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Posted: 1/20/2023 6:25:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a good conversation with IWI about the Carmel today to clear things up. They clarified a lot about the rifle. 1st it’s made completely in the US with the Israeli technical specs because the ABC agency will not allow imports of parts in the scale they needed. 2 the bbl’s original QD mount didn’t return to zero so they modified the mechanism allow a good return to zero and it unintentionally improved accuracy so they went with it. 3 the adverse gas setting on the Israeli gun pretty much turned it into a single shot so was not included with the normal & suppressor settings. They couldn’t import the Israeli handguard and they don’t have the capability to make it. The 2x4 is already set in stone for now so the only hope to get rid of the 2x4 is the aftermarket. The barrel installation "mechanism" is a factory press fit into the receiver. Scroll up to the most recent posted video(s) above. It is not QD. |
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Posted: 1/20/2023 6:56:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The barrel installation "mechanism" is a factory press fit into the receiver. Scroll up to the most recent posted video(s) above. It is not QD. “You will have the ability to remove the barrel. Just remove the hand guard, push the rear detent pin open, hinge off the lower and you will gain access to both of the screws necessary to remove the barrel. It’s that easy. “ That’s directly from Austin Smith at IWI. It’s definitely not AUG QD, it’s more inline with the VHS bbl removal. |
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Posted: 1/20/2023 7:32:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they have the capability to make this rifle and turn them out, they have the capability to make the handguard. Even if they have to buy or pay for the capability. They have the money. They’d make the money back 10x. I’m as disappointed as I was with the Gen2 ACE. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I had a good conversation with IWI about the Carmel today to clear things up. They clarified a lot about the rifle. 1st it’s made completely in the US with the Israeli technical specs because the ABC agency will not allow imports of parts in the scale they needed. 2 the bbl’s original QD mount didn’t return to zero so they modified the mechanism allow a good return to zero and it unintentionally improved accuracy so they went with it. 3 the adverse gas setting on the Israeli gun pretty much turned it into a single shot so was not included with the normal & suppressor settings. They couldn’t import the Israeli handguard and they don’t have the capability to make it. The 2x4 is already set in stone for now so the only hope to get rid of the 2x4 is the aftermarket. If they have the capability to make this rifle and turn them out, they have the capability to make the handguard. Even if they have to buy or pay for the capability. They have the money. They’d make the money back 10x. I’m as disappointed as I was with the Gen2 ACE. |
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Posted: 1/20/2023 9:22:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “You will have the ability to remove the barrel. Just remove the hand guard, push the rear detent pin open, hinge off the lower and you will gain access to both of the screws necessary to remove the barrel. It’s that easy. “ That’s directly from Austin Smith at IWI. It’s definitely not AUG QD, it’s more inline with the VHS bbl removal. Sounds analogous to an mrp and mcx. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 10:04:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds analogous to an mrp and mcx. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: “You will have the ability to remove the barrel. Just remove the hand guard, push the rear detent pin open, hinge off the lower and you will gain access to both of the screws necessary to remove the barrel. It’s that easy. “ That’s directly from Austin Smith at IWI. It’s definitely not AUG QD, it’s more inline with the VHS bbl removal. Sounds analogous to an mrp and mcx. It does. Would like to see pics. Surprised it wasn't mentioned at all at any time during SHOT. Also would like to see the possible lighter versions the rep alluded to coming out later. That HG on this is too long & too much. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 10:16:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It does. Would like to see pics. Surprised it wasn't mentioned at all at any time during SHOT. Agreed. It's nice you can still remove it, but now it is just like every other AR-180 type system where you need tools to do it. The QD would have been a nice feature. That was one of the things I liked about my ARX and love about my AUG. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 11:50:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a good conversation with IWI about the Carmel today to clear things up. They clarified a lot about the rifle. 1st it’s made completely in the US with the Israeli technical specs because the ABC agency will not allow imports of parts in the scale they needed. 2 the bbl’s original QD mount didn’t return to zero so they modified the mechanism allow a good return to zero and it unintentionally improved accuracy so they went with it. 3 the adverse gas setting on the Israeli gun pretty much turned it into a single shot so was not included with the normal & suppressor settings. They couldn’t import the Israeli handguard and they don’t have the capability to make it. The 2x4 is already set in stone for now so the only hope to get rid of the 2x4 is the aftermarket. I wish IWI luck with their decisions. Seem likes a big waste of time, money, and energy on IWI's part to bring this rifle to market in the way they did as I don't think it's going to sell well. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 1:17:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Whoever is making these decisions at IWI to swap out military handguards for MLOK needs to be fired.
ETA: This whole thing just smells like senseless engineers "designing" to made-up requirements in their head rather than truly understanding where the Carmel fits in the US market. Did you guys even speak with one consumer? Uniqueness and military heritage is what will sell, with options for MLOK if the user wants to swap it down the line. They ruined the Carmel just like they ruined the Galils. Look at this "brick" of a handguard.   Attached File |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 2:21:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whoever is making these decisions at IWI to swap out military handguards for MLOK needs to be fired. ETA: This whole thing just smells like senseless engineers "designing" to made-up requirements in their head rather than truly understanding where the Carmel fits in the US market. Did you guys even speak with one consumer? Uniqueness and military heritage is what will sell, with options for MLOK if the user wants to swap it down the line. They ruined the Carmel just like they ruined the Galils. Look at this "brick" of a handguard. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/274532/1231231_JPG-2680262.JPG The only hope for this rifle is an aggressive street price and the aftermarket to step in and save it. Please Mantacore or someone step up and produce something close to the original HG and put this pig on a diet. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 2:50:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's baffling. The only hope for this rifle is an aggressive street price and the aftermarket to step in and save it. Please Mantacore or someone step up and produce something close to the original HG and put this pig on a diet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Whoever is making these decisions at IWI to swap out military handguards for MLOK needs to be fired. ETA: This whole thing just smells like senseless engineers "designing" to made-up requirements in their head rather than truly understanding where the Carmel fits in the US market. Did you guys even speak with one consumer? Uniqueness and military heritage is what will sell, with options for MLOK if the user wants to swap it down the line. They ruined the Carmel just like they ruined the Galils. Look at this "brick" of a handguard. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/274532/1231231_JPG-2680262.JPG The only hope for this rifle is an aggressive street price and the aftermarket to step in and save it. Please Mantacore or someone step up and produce something close to the original HG and put this pig on a diet. I figured after the backlash they got on the galil and the implosion of the Bren 2 they would have realized what a terrible decision it is to drastically change the design especially when people are literally telling them “this is what we want”. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 6:50:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a good conversation with IWI about the Carmel today to clear things up. They clarified a lot about the rifle. 1st it’s made completely in the US with the Israeli technical specs because the ABC agency will not allow imports of parts in the scale they needed. 2 the bbl’s original QD mount didn’t return to zero so they modified the mechanism allow a good return to zero and it unintentionally improved accuracy so they went with it. 3 the adverse gas setting on the Israeli gun pretty much turned it into a single shot so was not included with the normal & suppressor settings. They couldn’t import the Israeli handguard and they don’t have the capability to make it. The 2x4 is already set in stone for now so the only hope to get rid of the 2x4 is the aftermarket. Wow. This thing isn’t even an import, just another aspect of me liking it less. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 8:15:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow. This thing isn’t even an import, just another aspect of me liking it less. It’s completely built in the US, they said they tried multiple times to get it imported and were denied , if they wanted to offer it this was their only way. I hate it when guns are imported then they switched production here. They are almost always different (in a bad way) for the original offering and it the appeal away for me but it looks like it wouldn’t have ever been imported regardless. In this case I’ll give it the ARX100 pass for that but that also makes that much more important they don’t change it. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 8:23:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s completely built in the US, they said they tried multiple times to get it imported and were denied and if they wanted to offer it this was their only way. I hate it when guns are imported then they switched production here. They are almost always different (in a bad way) for the original offering and it the appeal away for me but it looks like it wouldn’t have ever been imported regardless. In this case I’ll give it the ARX100 pass for that but that also makes that much more important they don’t change it. That stupid "sporting purpose" import ban needs to be done away with. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 8:51:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That stupid "sporting purpose" import ban needs to be done away with. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 9:03:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That stupid "sporting purpose" import ban needs to be done away with. 34 NFA, 68 GCA, 922(o), 925(d)(3), 922(r) all must go. It should be straight forward to get rid of the sporting purposes clause. A court case where someone is denied import of say an mr223a3 rifle could be brought forth showing how an mr556a1 is available in the US but the nearly identical rifle cannot be imported. Furthermore, these are in common use. |
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Posted: 1/22/2023 6:28:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It does. Would like to see pics. Surprised it wasn't mentioned at all at any time during SHOT. Also would like to see the possible lighter versions the rep alluded to coming out later. That HG on this is too long & too much. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: “You will have the ability to remove the barrel. Just remove the hand guard, push the rear detent pin open, hinge off the lower and you will gain access to both of the screws necessary to remove the barrel. It’s that easy. “ That’s directly from Austin Smith at IWI. It’s definitely not AUG QD, it’s more inline with the VHS bbl removal. Sounds analogous to an mrp and mcx. It does. Would like to see pics. Surprised it wasn't mentioned at all at any time during SHOT. Also would like to see the possible lighter versions the rep alluded to coming out later. That HG on this is too long & too much. In my experience the people they have at the booths at SHOT generally don't know much about the products. Some real examples I've had over the years: -Excel Arms Accelerator: "So how fast does this launch a 5.7 from that long barrel?" (the whole reason this gun exists) "Dunno, but it's fast!" (this was the owner of the company) -Booth displaying Japanese knives: "So what type of steel are these made of?" "Its stainless steel from Japan!" (no kidding) -At the Wolf Ammunition booth "Any plans for producing 5.7x28?" Confused look like I asked a math problem. "Whats that?" ... Generally the smaller the booth, the better the chances are that the guy knows his stuff. IWI being a large booth... |
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Posted: 1/22/2023 7:01:28 PM EDT
[#17]
I think still one of the best releases was the Hellion…please o please IWI change that dumb looking handguard…NO ONE LIKES IT!
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Posted: 1/22/2023 11:51:32 PM EDT
[#18]
I had mild interest in the carmel, but not in this configuration. Same for their galils
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Posted: 1/23/2023 1:47:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think still one of the best releases was the Hellion…please o please IWI change that dumb looking handguard…NO ONE LIKES IT! Quote HistoryQuoted: I think still one of the best releases was the Hellion…please o please IWI change that dumb looking handguard…NO ONE LIKES IT! Quoted: I had mild interest in the carmel, but not in this configuration. Same for their galils Email them [email protected] (717) 695-2081 and/or call them! Let ‘em know the 2x4 looks like shit and if they want you to buy it they need to fix it! |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 2:25:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I brought that up , they said they could have made it but the decision was to go with the 2x4 and that process is already set in motion. Lol they are aware people don’t like the shape of the HG on both the Carmel & Gen 2 ace. They mentioned trying to get more Gen 1 Ace rifles but apparently IWI sends what they want and the ABC agency is extremely hard to deal with right now. They hinted about the aftermarket making something closer to the OG rail. I told them I understand why they didn’t certain things the way that did now but the ugly 2x4 has to go. Didn’t production on Gen1 all but cease? Gen1 I believe is only being contractually made for government contracts. It’s marked as discontinued on both Israeli and US sites, and I called the Israeli headquarters and talked with them as well. But the lower level people seem to also not know much. I hope to see even small runs of Gen1 in the future. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 2:38:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Email them [email protected] (717) 695-2081 and/or call them! Let ‘em know the 2x4 looks like shit and if they want you to buy it they need to fix it! Already done. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 3:02:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Email them [email protected] (717) 695-2081 and/or call them! Let ‘em know the 2x4 looks like shit and if they want you to buy it they need to fix it! Done. Hopefully they listen |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 6:51:06 PM EDT
[#23]
I did too last week. Today, I followed up with another email with a link to this thread suggesting they read the recent posts.
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Posted: 1/23/2023 10:28:49 PM EDT
[#24]
I highly recommend both calling and emailing. The more people we have letting them know they fucked up, the better.
If anything, they can at least make a handguard that emulates the Israeli polymer version. That one change alone would make the rifle much more palatable. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:34:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I highly recommend both calling and emailing. The more people we have letting them know they fucked up, the better. If anything, they can at least make a handguard that emulates the Israeli polymer version. That one change alone would make the rifle much more palatable. It would make the difference in me buying one or not. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:11:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. It's nice you can still remove it, but now it is just like every other AR-180 type system where you need tools to do it. The QD would have been a nice feature. That was one of the things I liked about my ARX and love about my AUG. Same. I prefer no-tool takedown for as many components as possible. In the case of accuracy, I get there's a performance tradeoff, but the importance of it depends on the application. For precision level shooting, sure, go with fasteners. This rifle isn't intended for that. I'd like to know what the accuracy performance is for the original. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:07:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same. I prefer no-tool takedown for as many components as possible. In the case of accuracy, I get there's a performance tradeoff, but the importance of it depends on the application. For precision level shooting, sure, go with fasteners. This rifle isn't intended for that. I'd like to know what the accuracy performance is for the original. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:23:34 PM EDT
[#28]
I actually like the Mlok version.
Hmm. This rifle might end up on my short list. When is it supposed to hit the streets? |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:35:37 PM EDT
[#29]
April-June
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Posted: 1/24/2023 11:51:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I actually like the Mlok version. Hmm. This rifle might end up on my short list. When is it supposed to hit the streets? Late Q2 from what they said at Shot. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 5:25:58 AM EDT
[#31]
I thought the original handguard is
 I don't mind a modern MLOK handguard, but IWI went the MCX route with it  which after owning a Virtus is disappointing. I think the worst part of the rifle is the weight. According to the IWI USA website comes in at 8.2 lbs unloaded. I'm assuming this is due to the barrel profile they chose and not so much the handguard. For comparison:Sig Virtus: 7.9 lbs Original IWI Carmel: 7.27 lbs FN SCAR16S: 7.25 lbs FN M4: 6.43 lbs It would be nice if IWI switched up the barrel profile to pencil weight and experimented with 1/8 twist, 5R, and a Wylde chamber to see how much more accurate the rifle can get. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 8:24:33 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the original handguard is I don't mind a modern MLOK handguard, but IWI went the MCX route with it which after owning a Virtus is disappointing. I think the worst part of the rifle is the weight. According to the IWI USA website comes in at 8.2 lbs unloaded. I'm assuming this is due to the barrel profile they chose and not so much the handguard. For comparison:Sig Virtus: 7.9 lbs Original IWI Carmel: 7.27 lbs FN SCAR16S: 7.25 lbs FN M4: 6.43 lbs It would be nice if IWI switched up the barrel profile to pencil weight and experimented with 1/8 twist, 5R, and a Wylde chamber to see how much more accurate the rifle can get. The funny thing is the rep in the vid calls it a pencil profile & claimed the package weighs 7.5#, so go figure. Personally, I think the HG would've been fine if it ended just behind the gas block. IWI apparently has a thing for extra long HG setups with a hole machined on the sides for adjustment access. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 8:54:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The funny thing is the rep in the vid calls it a pencil profile & claimed the package weighs 7.5#, so go figure. Personally, I think the HG would've been fine if it ended just behind the gas block. IWI apparently has a thing for extra long HG setups with a hole machined on the sides for adjustment access. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I thought the original handguard is I don't mind a modern MLOK handguard, but IWI went the MCX route with it which after owning a Virtus is disappointing. I think the worst part of the rifle is the weight. According to the IWI USA website comes in at 8.2 lbs unloaded. I'm assuming this is due to the barrel profile they chose and not so much the handguard. For comparison:Sig Virtus: 7.9 lbs Original IWI Carmel: 7.27 lbs FN SCAR16S: 7.25 lbs FN M4: 6.43 lbs It would be nice if IWI switched up the barrel profile to pencil weight and experimented with 1/8 twist, 5R, and a Wylde chamber to see how much more accurate the rifle can get. The funny thing is the rep in the vid calls it a pencil profile & claimed the package weighs 7.5#, so go figure. Personally, I think the HG would've been fine if it ended just behind the gas block. IWI apparently has a thing for extra long HG setups with a hole machined on the sides for adjustment access. They told me the bbl was slightly thicker than the Israeli version. I asked about the weight and they told me 8.2lbs was correct, the. 16” Israeli version is 7.6lbs. I personally hate mlok but would have probably been able to stomach it if they kept the original lines. 
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Posted: 1/27/2023 9:06:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They told me the bbl was slightly thicker than the Israeli version. I asked about the weight and they told me 8.2lbs was correct, the. 16” Israeli version is 7.6lbs. I personally hate mlok but would have probably been able to stomach it if they kept the original lines. https://i.imgur.com/9XHX7z1.jpg They increased the weight while removing some features. Not looking good. But unfortunately we are in the minority here. Look at their Facebook page. Everyone that comments loves it. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 9:17:33 PM EDT
[#35]
I have no desire for this. Wouldn’t mind a 20” barrel 308 galil
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Posted: 1/27/2023 9:18:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They told me the bbl was slightly thicker than the Israeli version. I asked about the weight and they told me 8.2lbs was correct, the. 16" Israeli version is 7.6lbs. I personally hate mlok but would have probably been able to stomach it if they kept the original lines. https://i.imgur.com/9XHX7z1.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought the original handguard is I don't mind a modern MLOK handguard, but IWI went the MCX route with it which after owning a Virtus is disappointing. I think the worst part of the rifle is the weight. According to the IWI USA website comes in at 8.2 lbs unloaded. I'm assuming this is due to the barrel profile they chose and not so much the handguard. For comparison:Sig Virtus: 7.9 lbs Original IWI Carmel: 7.27 lbs FN SCAR16S: 7.25 lbs FN M4: 6.43 lbs It would be nice if IWI switched up the barrel profile to pencil weight and experimented with 1/8 twist, 5R, and a Wylde chamber to see how much more accurate the rifle can get. The funny thing is the rep in the vid calls it a pencil profile & claimed the package weighs 7.5#, so go figure. Personally, I think the HG would've been fine if it ended just behind the gas block. IWI apparently has a thing for extra long HG setups with a hole machined on the sides for adjustment access. They told me the bbl was slightly thicker than the Israeli version. I asked about the weight and they told me 8.2lbs was correct, the. 16" Israeli version is 7.6lbs. I personally hate mlok but would have probably been able to stomach it if they kept the original lines. https://i.imgur.com/9XHX7z1.jpg Yeah that does look better on second look. I'm not a fan of the stock too and think it would look good with an ACR stock. But the weight of this thing is the deal breaker for me. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 9:27:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They told me the bbl was slightly thicker than the Israeli version. I asked about the weight and they told me 8.2lbs was correct, the. 16” Israeli version is 7.6lbs. I personally hate mlok but would have probably been able to stomach it if they kept the original lines. https://i.imgur.com/9XHX7z1.jpg That is how they should have done it…I’d be ok with it. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 9:34:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The funny thing is the rep in the vid calls it a pencil profile & claimed the package weighs 7.5#, so go figure. Personally, I think the HG would've been fine if it ended just behind the gas block. IWI apparently has a thing for extra long HG setups with a hole machined on the sides for adjustment access. End the rail just behind the gasblock? To give it an unnecessarily short handguard like the SCAR? I really don’t understand all the hate. Everything IWI has done with the US model seems like positive changes. Manufacturers are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. I’m happy IWI has invested so much in US production. |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 1:35:05 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: End the rail just behind the gasblock? To give it an unnecessarily short handguard like the SCAR? I really don’t understand all the hate. Everything IWI has done with the US model seems like positive changes. Manufacturers are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. I’m happy IWI has invested so much in US production.   I literally use my IR once or twice a year. The other 98% of the time I want my weapons as clutter free as possible.I’m a member of meal team 6 not seal team 6. I have no need or desire for 1/2lbs of extra rail that I will never use for anything. My reason for wanting this rifle is for my military gun fetish. It will never be a race gun except in oem drag, it’s not going to replace the AR in any capacity and it’s already a pig so anything you add to that enormous rail is just going to exacerbate that fact. |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 1:59:24 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: most people I know don’t care about tons of rail space because they slap an optic on their firearms and call it a day. Even if you use IR , light ,etc how much space do you need. I took my two rifles with the shortest rail space and packed everything you could possibly use on them to a ridiculous extent with no issues. https://i.imgur.com/qqputAJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/txfC9GW.jpg I literally use my IR once or twice a year. The other 98% of the time I want my weapons as clutter free as possible.I’m a member of meal team 6 not seal team 6. I have no need or desire for 1/2lbs of extra rail that I will never use for anything. My reason for wanting this rifle is for my military gun fetish. It will never be a race gun except in oem drag, it’s not going to replace the AR in any capacity and it’s already a pig so anything you add to that enormous rail is just going to exacerbate that fact. It also adds weight. The Carmel weighs a bit more than their TS12 BP 12 ga. SG. |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 5:53:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It also adds weight. The Carmel weighs a bit more than their TS12 BP 12 ga. SG. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: most people I know don’t care about tons of rail space because they slap an optic on their firearms and call it a day. Even if you use IR , light ,etc how much space do you need. I took my two rifles with the shortest rail space and packed everything you could possibly use on them to a ridiculous extent with no issues. https://i.imgur.com/qqputAJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/txfC9GW.jpg I literally use my IR once or twice a year. The other 98% of the time I want my weapons as clutter free as possible.I’m a member of meal team 6 not seal team 6. I have no need or desire for 1/2lbs of extra rail that I will never use for anything. My reason for wanting this rifle is for my military gun fetish. It will never be a race gun except in oem drag, it’s not going to replace the AR in any capacity and it’s already a pig so anything you add to that enormous rail is just going to exacerbate that fact. It also adds weight. The Carmel weighs a bit more than their TS12 BP 12 ga. SG. This M18 fully kitted out weighs about the same as a bare Carmel  |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 8:24:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They told me the bbl was slightly thicker than the Israeli version. I asked about the weight and they told me 8.2lbs was correct, the. 16” Israeli version is 7.6lbs. I personally hate mlok but would have probably been able to stomach it if they kept the original lines. https://i.imgur.com/9XHX7z1.jpg I would have purchased one if this was what they had done, I really dislike unnecessarily long handguards. Did you do that mock-up? |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 9:30:11 PM EDT
[#43]
With the Carmel being produced in the US, there is hope that IWI-USA is able to make changes to future versions of it to better correspond to the market and I think at least enough interest for an aftermarket company to pick up on. Hope to see an FDE version too.
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Posted: 1/28/2023 9:46:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish IWI luck with their decisions. Seem likes a big waste of time, money, and energy on IWI's part to bring this rifle to market in the way they did as I don't think it's going to sell well Sounds like the story with the ARX, I don't see this rifle having anything on an ARX - in fact less - and the ARX turned out to be a failure. I see the same exact path. |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 10:46:32 PM EDT
[#45]
How many of the people poo-pooing the forend and the Carmel in general have actually handled one?
Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 10:49:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many of the people poo-pooing the forend and the Carmel in general have actually handled one? Sven Manticore Arms I have and it was alright alright alright. But not one with the new handguard. |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 10:51:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: most people I know don’t care about tons of rail space because they slap an optic on their firearms and call it a day. Even if you use IR , light ,etc how much space do you need. I took my two rifles with the shortest rail space and packed everything you could possibly use on them to a ridiculous extent with no issues. https://i.imgur.com/qqputAJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/txfC9GW.jpg I literally use my IR once or twice a year. The other 98% of the time I want my weapons as clutter free as possible.I’m a member of meal team 6 not seal team 6. I have no need or desire for 1/2lbs of extra rail that I will never use for anything. My reason for wanting this rifle is for my military gun fetish. It will never be a race gun except in oem drag, it’s not going to replace the AR in any capacity and it’s already a pig so anything you add to that enormous rail is just going to exacerbate that fact. I throw a light, maybe a DBAL like once a year, switch, and VFG/AFG and call it good. I think people over estimate how much rail space they actually want or need. Until they’re carrying it all day or running and gunning. In a world where pounds suck, ounces matter. |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 10:53:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many of the people poo-pooing the forend and the Carmel in general have actually handled one? Sven Manticore Arms It does not matter if I’ve handled it or not, it’s the looks I am concerned about more than anything else. |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 11:12:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many of the people poo-pooing the forend and the Carmel in general have actually handled one? Sven Manticore Arms I don't have to hold it to know it'll feel worse than an Ar15, and that it lacks all the character of the original version. I don't want a hyper modern AR. if i did, I'd get a hyper modern AR. Not the carmel |
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Posted: 1/28/2023 11:48:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would have purchased one if this was what they had done, I really dislike unnecessarily long handguards. Did you do that mock-up? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They told me the bbl was slightly thicker than the Israeli version. I asked about the weight and they told me 8.2lbs was correct, the. 16” Israeli version is 7.6lbs. I personally hate mlok but would have probably been able to stomach it if they kept the original lines. https://i.imgur.com/9XHX7z1.jpg I would have purchased one if this was what they had done, I really dislike unnecessarily long handguards. Did you do that mock-up? |
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