Glad to see he posted and a great thing to be wrong on. Hopefully it will pull more people into the mix who might have otherwise been communicated to and also provide with an opportunity for restitution.

I hope his butthole receives a daily pounding in prison.

This is awesome

I wonder if they were able to tally up how much this guy got paid through his paypal and compared it to his net worth?

Also Hunter gained a lot of my respect for doing this and his actions so far

Anybody heard anything?

I’m thinking about selling my housings and rolling the cash into something more useful since it seems inevitable the tubes will be confiscated. If I’m wrong I can always pick up another housing that’s a true bino.

I just don’t see any opportunities for restitution, no matter how many people he screwed. Who is going to give us anything? The only guy who would possibly pay out is Lamneth....and he’s already proven himself to be a criminal. Why on earth would we expect some sort of restitution from him? Genuinely curious as to why you hold out hope for this. Is there another possibility I’m missing?

Only positive outcome I see for people who got taken is that HSI and/or the entity who owns these tubes decide not to confiscate. All other positive outcomes are pipe dreams imo.

Might as well put my 2 cents in. These cases sometimes take a significant amount of time to investigate and prosecute. Might as well use the hell out of the tubes you got by putting them through the paces and put some hours on the tubes. Enjoy them while you have them and save up for some better spec tubes. When they do come knocking for them, hopefully you got your money's worth when that happens.

Victim restitution is set in a lot of cases such as this however the amount is pennies on the $10 dollars and long time if ever in coming (see Madoff).  You can take the Ron Brown - OJ route and take him to civil court and try and collect however not everything can be seized.  Goldmans haven't been able to touch OJ's NFL pension for example.

ERISA protects most 401ks from judgment and since its likely this guy didn't claim his income and pay taxes on the sale of his stolen goods, then its likely the IRS will go after his 401K  if he has one since they are one of the few exceptions.

My SWAG is its unlike that anyone will see anything but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

Unfortunately, a very accurate post. I dodged the Taurus class action suit, as my pistol’s issue occurred right before the decision. IIRC, the settlement came out to about $150. And there you were dealing with a corporation. With much deeper pockets. Hard to get blood from a single stone.

The thief’s insurance may be one avenue to gain some restitution. Perhaps even his employer’s; depending on the details of his whole scheme.

Regardless, I wouldn’t expect to come away with very much. If anything.

I dunno. The scope and complexity of such a deal seems out of reach here. He probably owes hundreds of people money (if you only count arfcom sales). Say he owes about $1200 to 200 people, that’s almost $250k. Where does a guy like this come up with that kind of money legitimately before I’m in a wheelchair? Call me a skeptic, but it ain’t gonna happen. Is there some precedent that you can cite or know of an example that would be applicable to our case?

They say hope springs eternal, but I think we’re all better off to figure the tubes are gone from our possession. If it turns out differently we’ll be pleasantly surprised (especially me).

Apparently he owns a private plane and a couple properties. Im not expecting full restitution but something is better than nothing imo with the ability to keep them being the best option.

Also as someone stated above, this will take time and during that time you should try and get your moneys worth out of them. Just wear them on walks and such, experiment with what works and what doesnt. Then when you get new tubes you can appreciate them more. My .02

Holy shit, we have a live one here boys.

I feel sorry for anyone involved.

Now excuse me while I add another layer to my tin foil helmet.

Man sorry for everyone that bought from this guy. How do you get them to waive th 3% CC fee? My understanding is that if you do goods services with CC they charge you the 3% G/S PLUS the 3% CC fee.  

First, thanks OP for posting this and all of the discussion and the statement(s) by the criminal investigator(s).

I just discovered all of this yesterday. Unfortunately I found a record, and sure enough, it has effected me too. I told my wife, and then contacted Special Agent Durham.

I'm gobsmacked, and gut-punched. This was a once in a lifetime purchase for me as an anniversary present. You know how that works, she gives you permission for that purpose because it's something she knows you want and will make you happy, or shut you up long enough to go buy what she wants for herself too?

I'm a person of meager means now, so to just say yeah I'll go pop them out and put in new is not a reality for me at all. That, and all the memories my 9 year-old son, my wife, and I, the moments we had running around looking at things at night.

What price do you put on memories, or making new ones? What price do you put on your reputation in this matter?

Anyhow, I'm very much still taking this all in and going through the emotions, as hard as that is. However, not to stir the pot, but for considerate intellectual thought, I will say this from one narrow perspective, out of many others of course. In that, that corporation is responsible for placing controls to keep an employee from causing harm to the public in this exact manner.

An isolated incident or two is one thing, but a community (and growing) of folks such as it is, is an entirely different matter. It is already pervasive in scope over magnitude and time. Pointedly, we are damaged parties for their failure to place adequate checks, processes, and procedures to protect the aggrieved from this ordeal.

Collectively, we may contact the corporation and respectfully request to waiver whatever they (their legal department or representatives) deem relevant to their position, to hold them harmless, now or in the future, from any role they (may) have had in their diligence, negligence- criminally and civilly- as may or should pertain, in return for our unabashed cooperation in their pursuits against the accused in any way they see fit.

Transactionaly, we'd provide them directly with whatever they'd like in return for a letter/instrument allowing (the aggrieved persons or class), and, of course, upon their review and at their sole discretion, to keep items that were purchased in good faith. As has been said, they have previously written off these items largely, or have been compensated for by warranty, insurance, and for the purpose of taxes written off as a legitimate business expenses.

Even this particular situation is a legitimate business expense where they can pursue recompensation for legal efforts. We have not had that advantage. Once we paid in faith, that was it, and thusly we're damaged parties as a community and class.

Logically, do they really want the expense of collecting, inspecting, inventorying items that were previously written off, and the liability they'd incur for selling questionable products now that they've changed hands so many times? That's solely their call, but I submit that it's less expensive, and less a pain in the ass, and better for the optics of the whole of the situation, to "allow" us to keep those items while helping them pursue a vigorous prosecution, at the least civilly, where they also AVOID a potential class suit in that process.

My experience in defense procurement, tells me they know and have discussed this potential in the least. And it helps to compel and promote others to come forward that were also damaged, which only helps strengthen their position in possible future suits to recover and be compensated for any future losses of sales for loss of reputation. Good will, goes a long way.

At least this is one thought, respectfully consider it and move on, or coalesce as grieved parties. That's the choice in my view.

My advice is to use them until asked to return them. Don’t abuse them, but get your $’s worth.

Very sorry that you got caught up in all this.

@Bravosierra, I'm in the same boat as you, with the exception I'm going to be out a set BNVDs vs just tubes. It sounds like you have more experience than most of us, so I'd be onboard just let me know.

This is the only recourse that seems like it’s got any chance of getting traction. Although it’s still ultimately a question of whether the rightful owners of the equipment want to let us keep it and be done with the whole deal. Does anyone even know if all the stolen equipment came out of a single entities inventory? Could there be multiple parties that he stole from?

Also, how/where was it established that the equipment losses have been “written off” or reimbursed through insurance or some other means to make the original owners whole? Maybe I missed that somewhere.

I still don’t see validity in any class action suit, even against an entity that’s been proven to be negligent in accounting for their gear. Lamneth still stole them and sold them which is where most of the problem comes from in this case. It seems like it would be a VERY long road to get anywhere with a suit like that.

I also emailed agent Ferri this week to see if there were any updates on their end. He said there were none.

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Thank you so very much. I sent an email asking a few questions.

I'll probably be contacting you about this in the future but it'll be a while. My funds are going towards divorce lawyer right now.

Thanks Vic.

This is where I was going with what I said on Page 5.

Y'all need to appoint a spokesperson to contact a lawyer about working on contingency.

You are missing something.  "Contingency" means the lawyer only gets paid if there is a recovery.  No recovery = no legal fees.  Recovery could come from the seller, the company, a third party, or a combination of the three.  Many, many lawyers work on contingency.  This would actually be a really good way to vet y'all's situation.  If no lawyer wants to touch it, maybe you walk away.  If every lawyer you talk to seems eager to take the case, you might have a real winner.

Y'all won't know unless you appoint a spokesperson and give it a shot.

You also have a buyer in good faith for bona-fide value. Generally if you purchase something which the seller doesn’t have good title to for value, and you have no reason to believe that such seller didn’t have title you can be considered a buyer in good faith for bona five value, protecting the purchaser.

This, exactly.

Night be a longshot but maybe nolo knows someone

The guys who have been screwed should not artificially limit themselves to lawyers whom Stephen knows.

I do see that Stephen advertises himself as (at least partly) a personal injury lawyer, and he does free consultations, so someone could see if he's interested in the case.  I have no idea if he is a good lawyer.

One theory of recovery I had considered is a PI claim called "negligent supervision."  As I said back on Page 5, maybe Lamneth's employer was so asleep at the wheel that they should be partly responsible for making things right. Maybe the employer has an insurance policy in place for situations like this.  Lots of maybes.  Only one way to find out.

You can read more about negligent supervision here: https://www.ffllp.com/negligent-hiring-supervision-and-ret/

I’m not a part of the NV forum here, but saw this topic pop up in actives and it looked interesting, so I read through it.  All of you claiming that the thief’s employer(the biggest victim) be liable for the thief’s actions and somehow should owe you something or be sued by you, are absolutely despicable people.

If I stole things from my employer and sold them to randos on the internet and got caught, I would be fined and jailed and my employer would face much bigger fines while wishing desperately that such an incident never occurred and if it did, the people said employer does business with never caught wind of it. There's a difference between being a store clerk and stealing packs of cigarettes to make cash on the side and being a defense contractor with a legal obligation to document and track everything. That doesn't even include any export and IP concerns. The monetary loss of the tubes themselves is a tiny fraction of the overall costs that this can of worms opens up for the employer.

Despicable person reporting for duty, sir!

If you'll send me your address, I will mail you a free Jumping To Conclusions doormat for Christmas.

100% of the people here would like to see the thief responsible for his actions. Now run along back to GD where you came from.

This is the same thing I’d eluded to earlier in the thread. Just in far less detail. In short, depending on the circumstances, his employer (more specifically their insurer) could be on the hook for damages. Potentially even up to full restitution for those impacted.

The only issue currently, is that none of the buyers seem to have lost anything yet. And really don’t know the specifics of what they may lose. So, initiating the above may be a bit premature. But, it wouldn’t hurt to consult an attorney ahead of time to get an idea of what recourse you all may have.

Anyone got an update on this or are they still trying to sort out what's stolen and what's not?

I haven't heard anything back from the Special Agent. In their response to me a few weeks ago, they said they'd be sending an update next month.

I'm already trying to figure out what I can part with in order to have the funds to get the tubes out. It sucks, but I may be parting with both my Garands. ugh.

What are your tubes built into?

Most goggles you simply unscrew the ocular lenses and the tubes slide out.

My intention would be to take TNVC up on their more than generous offer if I can get things sold, and have them handle everything. While I might be able to do it, I don't really have the tools, and with my luck lately I'd ruin the housings and lenses in the process.

Night Vision Members,

1. Due to our current progress, I am going to suspend making another official written letterhead notification in order to see what we can get accomplished in the next 30 to 45 days.
2.If/When a defendant is federally charged, victim considerations will be a central part of the process and we will immediately provide you with your options

Property
1.I sincerely wish I there were more cause for optimism but based on the current facts known to the government at this time, there is no reason to believe that any NVD equipment sold by Lamneth any time is “clean” or “legitimately sold/purchased.”
2.At this point, I do not have a timeline for additional requests from you (the victims) for additional information or property.
3.If you have researched this situation enough to suspect which company the NVD property came from I ask that you do not contact them to check serial numbers or equipment markings. The company has instructions to direct inquires related to this matter back to me.
4.For any person in possession of night vision property related to this case, the previously letter still stands. The requested/recommended course for every victim is to preserve any and all information and property. Take no action/transfer of property until a final disposition of this case occurs and/or you are advised differently.  
5.If/when government requests for the return of property are issued, it will come from me in writing, with instructions and information.
6.My personal goals are to ensure the individual victims are treated fairly and you do not suffer any loss of property that isn’t verified. I will see to this personally. My other goal is to work with each victim in a way that is thoughtful, common-sense and respects the frustration of the circumstances.

I appreciate your patience and please feel free to contact me or John with any special questions.

Hunter Durham
Special Agent/HSI
[email protected]

What a great response!

Getting close to 45 days since agents posted that last response. Anyone heard anything?

Just came to check on progress, nothing on my end.

Someone just needs to call or email Hunter and ask for an update. I would, but I'm traveling today.

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't an update. This kind of shit can drag out for a long time.

Night Vision Members,

Thank you for prompting me to provide a updates from the government. As victims, you all have a right to receive updated information when applicable and I am happy to provide it:

1. The investigation has components which are ongoing and somewhat slow moving. But I am working on it. As some of you have correctly pointed out above, federal investigations tend to be thorough, nuanced and longer-term.
2. Moving forward as soon as possible regarding the Lamneth theft and re-sale of property charges is on my front burner.
3. Generally, the system works the following way: A. Investigation / Summary; B. Charging; C. Discovery/Legal Negotiations; D. Resolution by Trial or Plea Agreement; E. Sentencing
4. Timelines for this process vary. My personal goal is to have a firm idea about how this case is going to play out by January. But I am also never terribly optimistic when it comes to government timelines.
5. Once we accomplish the charging/resolution then I can work with all of you regarding your rights as victims 1) to inform the court about your circumstances and 2) to seek restitution from the defendant.

Thank you again for your patience and assistance,
Hunter Durham
[email protected]

Bump so it stays out of the archives.