Quoted:
It showed up earlier than FedEx predicted. Would have been really fucking awesome if had a flash hider on it like I asked since they never sent it back with one from the 2nd return. I screwed the factory one back on as a thread protector since on the first fucking return trip I left my surefire mount on there and they returned it torqued as fuck without the goddamn timing shims.

One simple goddamn thing desert tech. I mentioned it in the emails and I'm pretty sure on the troubleshooting form as well. Bravo. Bravo.

I guess we'll see if it works or continues to choke.

Quoted:
It showed up earlier than FedEx predicted. Would have been really fucking awesome if had a flash hider on it like I asked since they never sent it back with one from the 2nd return. I screwed the factory one back on as a thread protector since on the first fucking return trip I left my surefire mount on there and they returned it torqued as fuck without the goddamn timing shims.

One simple goddamn thing desert tech. I mentioned it in the emails and I'm pretty sure on the troubleshooting form as well. Bravo. Bravo.

I guess we'll see if it works or continues to choke.

Quoted:

Just sell it...if you can...and get a LMT MWS...

Quoted:

I've had one of those for years.
16" cl barrel I had dimpled
21" noveske 308
24" noveske 6.5

The noveske's are freakishly accurate.

I must have a fluke gun though because it's absolutely reliable in any configuration.

Quoted:

I've had one of those for years.
16" cl barrel I had dimpled
21" noveske 308
24" noveske 6.5

The noveske's are freakishly accurate.

I must have a fluke gun though because it's absolutely reliable in any configuration.

Quoted:
For those who have no idea what's going on

http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Desert_Tech_DT_MDR_and_MDR-C_Micro_Dynamic_Rifle_Modular_Multi-Caliber_Bullpup_Combat_Assault_Carbine_and_SBR_Sub-Carbine_SHOT_Show_2014_David_Crane_DefenseReview.com_DR_29.jpg

http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Desert_Tech_DT_MDR_and_MDR-C_Micro_Dynamic_Rifle_Modular_Multi-Caliber_Semi-Auto_Bullpup_Anti-Materiel_Sniper_Rifle_Carbine_Systems_2.jpg

Quoted:
Actually traded my MDR for my MWS and an extra barrel while the getting was good (first run release), best damn decision I made.

Quoted:

Here...it is still in my reply to him on BPF. It is not the first time the SCAR, LMT, HK and others have been mentioned as inferior or having problems during their testing...my problem with statements like that is that in the real world...those platforms are cranking reliable rounds while taking down bad guys throughout the world...while the MDR in the real world...doesn't and chokes in the civilian, tacticool bench shooting environment.

For reference...ney1 is his handle on BPF.


DT Sponsored MDR Q&A thread.
« Reply #151 on: Yesterday at 03:21:45 PM »
Quote from: ney1 on Yesterday at 02:31:31 PM

Guys,

Been away for some time.  I just wanted to provide a public response to the In Range MDR video.

It is unfortunate that the premise of the In Range video was to start by trying to fire low quality ammunition that, in their words "doesn't usually function in other rifles they tested".  Many have asked why they can't shoot poor quality ammunition through the MDR with the reliability that they can through their traditional rifle.  The straight forward answer is "you can" shoot the crappy ammunition through the MDR just like your traditional rifle by removing the ejection chute cover and it will reliably side eject just like their traditional rifle.  Now why is this necessary to do with junk ammo?  Because the forward ejection chute requires that the bolt experience full rearward travel for reliable forward ejection so if you are shooting underpowered ammunition you have to get the bolt to travel all the way back by adjusting the gas pressure up, if your ammo is still too underpowered then pull the chute.  Now why does a traditional rifle shoot crap through it more reliably than the MDR's forward ejection chute?  Because the cycle length required to eject a cartridge out of a traditional side ejection rifle doesn't have to be a full cycle just like if you remove the MDR's chute it won't have to be a full cycle to eject the MDR to the side either.  So in essence if you want to shoot crap by some crap that will fully cycle the rifle if you want to use the ejection chute, if you got screwed into buy thousands of rounds of Malaysian bulk discount junk out of shotgun news that you are too stubborn to eat the loss on then pull the ejection chute off and side eject that garbage.

The MDR forward ejection works with fantastic relability if you use standard powered ammunition.  Whats crazy is we have tested the MDR against the scar, the mk18, the MR762, the sig, LMT, etc etc etc and people don't even know the issues that each rifle platform experiences but hey its the internet where everyones a freaking expert.  So bring it on keyboard commandos.

My response:

I applaud you for replying and coming back to the wolf's den...but come on Nick...are you really going to go and continue to say that other platforms that have been proven to work in both civilian and in the battle field world are not as good as the MDR...really...your MDR by design is an amazing...the best...but it has yet to prove itself that it can work without a hitch or breaking something...and that is your #1 problem with it...doesn't matter what fancy marketing you put out...about Maximum this and that...if it breaks or chokes...its hard to take the platform serious.

InRange did use standard power ammo as well as cheaper ammo..it was a great combo...your MDR didn't work reliably...their review was spot on sir...whether you like it or not...either learn from it and improve your product...or continue to be stubborn about it and think your MDR is perfect when it is clearly not ready. They did use Malaysian L2A2...but guess what...that stuff has been proven over and over again to work in pretty much all 308 semi autos you listed about...without a problem while delivering decent groups on par if not better than Federal XM80...but somehow...those platforms are inferior...please...

Removing the chute defeats the design the MDR is known for...either make it work or not...either way...if the MDR is only going to function with certain ammo...you need to make a dang good disclaimer that only this ammo will work otherwise the gun won't function as it is design...again...removing the chute is not the solution...if it is...then redesign and simplify the stupid thing...but until you are offering the MDR as is...removing the chute panel shouldn't even come out of DT's mouth as a solution.  Shocked Shocked Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

------------------------------------------

I guess...DT might want to release what are approved ammo that is guaranteed to work on normal setting (3) on the 6 position plug after 200rd break-in...InRange's video didn't allow XM80 (a spec'd NATO round) to fire until gas setting was on 5 or 6...and even then it choked...if I remember correctly...

Quoted:
First round on setting 1 short stroked and jammed the empty partway into the chute. Switched to 2 and made it through 3 mags without issue which is an accomplishment for this rifle. Got a nice black streak down my cheek for my effort. We'll see how long it goes but I'm pretty much expecting to have another stuck case at some point. I've cleaned and polished the chamber before same as DT did but it's just a temporary fix.

Tried to shoot some groups but I forgot how much I dislike this trigger. I've shortened it up and improved it quite a bit from stock but there is still little to no feel for when it's going to break. Disclaimer: all my other semiautos are geiselle or Larue triggers.

Quoted:

Are you on a 6 position gas plug?

Quoted:

Yes

ETA: I don't have a set of pin gauges but I remember a post where someone measured the ports and the suppressed port on the revised 3 position was sized between 1 and 2 on the 6 POS. I may need to go back to that because I short stroke on #1 and rip rims intermittently on 2.

Quoted:
No Idea...I know there was the original and then the idiotic sleeved 3-position plug...but I am not sure if they changed the ports between those two or not.

Quoted:
Did not know that...I thought the sleeved plug was an update to the weaker design of the original plug...

Quoted:
Good luck to you. Maybe you can sell your design however it's a dang shame you even have to undertake something like that on such high dollar weapon.

Let us know how it turns out.

Quoted:
A design that doesn't work isn't great.

Quoted:
Tavor...I could also run dual CH on it...but I am fine with the way it is.

Quoted:

Well...you know what I meant...I should rephrase...the concept of the MDR is great....

Quoted:

10/4. Not really sure what was so revolutionary as everything they did had already been done on separate firearms. Maybe combining then into one platform was too much as it doesn't seem to be working out that great.

Quoted:

Yes the all-in-one concept is great...honestly...it had potential...

Quoted:
So mine worked great at first with the 3 position plug shooting DAG surplus.  Then it started ripping case rims off while suppressed.  I got the new 6 position plug, and even on setting 1, still ripping rims.

Looking at how the rims are ripped and the amount of the engagement the extractor has, I think I'm going to mill an "enhanced" extractor and give that a try.  I haven't measured yet but I believe there's enough clearance in the barrel extension for a wider extractor with more radial engagement, it also appears to me that the OE extractors geometry isn't exactly optimal for engaging the rim.

Quoted:

Wow. Even mine hasn't ripped rims on setting 1. It short strokes on 1 and has ripped rims on 2. Polish the hell out of the chamber if you haven't already.

You're right on the extractor shape. My guess is they were worried about the scissor being able to kick them off the bolt face reliably if it cupped around the rim any amount. It looks like the gun inrange reviewed had dt's new wider extractor and it still ripped rims.

I agree on gas port placement as well. It's likely one of the root problems along with the scissor mechanism that requires so much bolt travel. Maybe the BCG could use more mass, change the geometry on the scissor mechanism? It would be nice if the mechanism could eject the case without having to slam the BCG to the rear. If it could get enough travel and then has some room to overrun. Seems like it would cut down the sharp recoil quite a bit.

Quoted:

While it's certainly partly the extractor, partly the Rube Goldbergian ejector, and (in my estimation, as I haven't had a chance to do any high-speed filming) simply the bolt velocity. The bolt is too light, as you point out, and to get it all working even semi-reliably with the short gas system requires a very high reciprocating mass velocity. There's a combination of factors working against the design, and without pretty large modifications to the design and starting over... well, it's a tough hill to climb.

I'm still amazed that DT didn't do more prototyping and revisions prior to placing any parts orders from overseas.

Quoted:

While it's certainly partly the extractor, partly the Rube Goldbergian ejector, and (in my estimation, as I haven't had a chance to do any high-speed filming) simply the bolt velocity. The bolt is too light, as you point out, and to get it all working even semi-reliably with the short gas system requires a very high reciprocating mass velocity. There's a combination of factors working against the design, and without pretty large modifications to the design and starting over... well, it's a tough hill to climb.

I'm still amazed that DT didn't do more prototyping and revisions prior to placing any parts orders from overseas.

Quoted:
A design that doesn't work isn't great.

Quoted:

Originally the parts were milled on the prototypes...than they switched to the Asian market for the MIM parts...pretty sure everything except the barrel is from overseas Asian MIM manufacturers from multiple countries...but today's MIM is totally different as long as tolerances can be consistence.

Quoted:

Dubious quality and higher reject rates (with proper QC) aside, MIM from India can actually be perfectly fine.

The only issue I have is that so many pieces have to be ordered with each batch that practically speaking, revisions aren't going to happen. It's as though DT is trying to prototype in batches of 5,000 rifles.

Quoted:

Agreed...like I stated. MIM today is all about holding tolerances precisely...safe to say...the parts are slightly oversized since there is a break-in requirement.

Quoted:

To be honest, I think there are fundamental problems with the design, and it’s not just an issue with simply “breaking it in”.  Yeah, smoothing out a sharp edge or two in the MIM ejection chute may help a little with reliability in some guns, but in other guns it doesn’t seem to be a problem.  I really believe that DT doesn’t know what the problem really is, or is unwilling to face up to it, and saying that it just needs to be “broken in” is a cover for other fundamental issues.  Even broken in guns still have problems.  At this point, I think DT is just shotgunning fixes short of a a redesign and hoping something works.  It may be fashionable to blame MIM parts, but I don’t think that’s the problem.

Quoted:
Heck that just gave me an idea that would be relatively simple to try as an experiment.

A new gas plug that was quite long compared to the OEM design.   But hollow, to act as an expansion chamber. That would slow bolt acceleration initially. I'm just unsure how much, or if it would even be enough to act differently.

Quoted:

Most gas rifles I'm familiar with that have such a short gas system for such a large cartridge have much more inefficient gas utilization.  SCARS, AKs, FALs, all bleed vastly more gas when actuating their respective op rods than the captured, gas ring sealed short stroke piston in the MDR.

Quoted:

Might be easier than creating a new extractor.