Sorry mods for going OT...but I bet FHRC and her ilk get perp walked first...

Thought I'd give this thread a bump, saw this on BPF posted by the CEO of Desert Tech himself:

"BullpupT,
Yes please do tell us what we are we fixing?  I understood we had some mag release buttons that were stiffer than was desirable, which was remedied with proper lubing of the mechanism.  I also received feedback that some suppressors are a bit gassy on the MDR but it depends on what can you are running.  We will offer a drop in fully adjustable valve in the future as an option for those that want to really fine tune their gas setting for whatever suppressor they are running.

The MDR is military grade rifle, not a POS Keltec.  My Keltech RFB never ejected a single case from its chamber no matter what the gas setting was on and the brass had to be pounded out of the chamber every shot with a rod and mallet.  The gun was missing parts and had a bad chamber from what I could tell.    

The MDR's are extremely reliable, they pass US military; mud test, drop test, and temp tests, as well as all of the other tests we have put it through.  The accuracy people are reporting on the Tavor is that its groups are twice as large as the group sizes reported with our MDR's.  In addition the MDR is the safest 7.62x51 battle rifle when conducting bore obstruction testing as a result of our patent pending "overpressure gas control system".  The Ergos on the MDR are superior to all IWI products.  Disassembly on the MDR and barrel changes on the MDR are also more intuitive than the TAVOR.  The MDR's Trigger weight is 4.5-5 lbs, anyone who has reported anything above has miss-reported the specification because they hastefully over-pulled the trigger gauge beyond the triggers breaking point."

Just an opinion, but openly shitting on other manufacturers? That's pretty trashy to me. I think I'm out on this one, which sucks, because I was so excited for this rifle. But given the MSRP hike, weight gain, years of delays, inability to produce rifles in either quality/quantity promised, lack of transparency and overall unprofessionalism of DT, I'm afraid the MDR of 2014 doesn't much resemble the MDR of 2017 (2018, if you don't count the few dozen out at current, many of which having some defect).

Y'all have fun, I hope you get a good rifle. I think I'll wait out for the 'inferior' Tavor 7.

I'll say it again but with the way this whole release went down and the latest CEO's comments I not only will never buy an MDR but I will never buy any DT product.

It really sucks as I wanted to get a SRS A1 in the worst way to replace my AIAT since I could shoot both standard and magnum calibers in one rifle but it is what it is.

I can't say that I have heard many bad thing about the RFB either on this forum...have I missed them?

I saw that comment by Nick too. I'm sure he's stressed and everything else but there is no excuse for that. Any sympathy from me is gone now. If I didn't already own a mdr and SRS I can't say that I would be buying one.

Wow, that's pretty sad coming from a guy whose rifles are already coming back to him for repairs...

Don't ask Martin...he's liable to verbally attack you.

Jesus that CEO just sounds like a scam artist.

I think he's just an idiot.

I run off at the mouth and have a bad temper, too...but that is why they keep me locked up in a laboratory....not running the company.  Double smart move on their part.

Wonder if he's related to Alex Robinson

This guy is one of the worst pr disasters I have ever seen seriously I’ve hung with this thing since the beginning but after a tirade like that I’m seriously considering dropping my preorder he needs to not rise to the bait or to use his charming phrasing lower himself to “shitting” all over this competition who can at least get rifles out on the market and in fact spell properly. This guy is either on drugs or needs to be. Jesus...

I had a KelTec RFB that I had to wait over a year to finally locate one that was available for sale. I also waited about 2 years to finally get my pre-paid order for my FNH SCAR 17. The Scar 17 was worth the wait. The KelTec RFB, not so much. I took my brand new RFB to the range to fire and after about 7 or 8 rounds an ejected shell casing jammed in the internal ejection chute metal rail that the casings slide down and out the front of the RFB. I contacted KelTec and they had me send them the metal chute and they sent me a larger, replacement chute, no charge. Customer service was great.

The next problem I had was when I purchased some brand new DSA made FAL magazines. These magazines would not chamber more than one round before jamming. Every single DSA FAL magazine jammed on the second round. Only my FNH FAL (Belgium made) magazines would function properly in the RFB. I wasn't impressed. I owned several FN FAL rifles and one DSA FAL rifle and all of them would function properly with FNH FAL magazines as well as other company after market magazines. Customer service is excellent with KelTec. However, I'd rather get a better quality product than get a product that was going to need customer service to fix issues that shouldn't exist.

Mine was supposed to be back today but FedEx never came. Figures. Nothing goes to schedule if a mdr is involved.

Two more weeks!^(tm)

Lol at the fake keltec tears. They get bashed here daily. This guy is just giving his own personal horror story.

FedEx showed up at 10 last night. Driver had a breakdown or something. Finally got my 1895sbl back from threading too!!

Why the hell would you bother tightening down the muzzle device when you didn't even bother to or the shims back on to time the fucking thing correctly....

And why now with this "updated" has plug can you not turn or remove the damn thing without pliers.

Go make yourself some Halloween cash on GunBroker.

And Kac and Larue mags still fall out and have FTF. Waiting on an email back to see if they want to try again.

I have video of the Kac falling out. And it made it till the 19th round on the Larue and I thought it didn't pick it up but it didn't chamber or something.

LOL sorry you're going through with all of this.

By now I'd tell them to give me a new one or stick it and refund my money.

When or if they get it together and there are good numbers out and they're reliable, then buy one. If they don't get their crap togetherthen take that money and buy something else.

this, as a non interested 3rd party

Dude.  Seriously, I am sitting here frustrated as hell FOR you.

I am so friggen' sorry you are going though this mess.  

Watching the videos I have seen of the MESS that DT calls manufacturing....I am so not surprised.

On a good note it does shoot much softer and is less gassy. Being gassy never really bothered me before.
I put up 2 vids on the MDR owners group on Facebook. Maybe that will get their attention. I've tried not to bash the gun or the company even with all their missteps but this is it. I spelled out my issues exactly in the original email to get an RMA.

With a better trigger pack and the ability to hold anything but a pmag it will be a sweet little rifle one day... Maybe.

Eh, I think the pile-on over that is a bit exaggerated.  A little poor-form on his part - maybe I'll find others to hang with at the company picnic - but not really my problem.

I need to do more testing to be 100% on it but I think I've found my own solution to the mag catch issue. The trigger pack isn't all that different from an ar in how it works. I'm tempted to take a diamond stone to the hammer and see if I can get the trigger creep down to a respectable level. I'm sure it's going to be a good while before there is even enough market for geiselle or the like to think about working on an upgrade.

It's a cumulative effect for me really. I'm still hanging in but having worked in the corporate world this guy shows all the signs of not being able to handle high level pressure or product roll out issues very well and certainly does help out the company's rep as the CEO. In any case i'm not going to shit over DT or their product but every time this guy opens his mouth there is a collective face palm from most of the people who are interested in their products or trying to defend them. As I have said before I am hoping that I get a great rifle that lives up the pedigree of DT before they announced the MDR, that's why I jumped on it. It just gets harder to believe in a company with a guy like this in charge.

I wouldnt do anything thats gonna let them say your stuck with it. Keep sending it back or get your money back. Im sure they would be happy to send it to someone as new. :/

From bullpupforum


http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12475.msg132275#msg132275

I’m torn between cancelling my preorder vs waiting it out only to drop it on gunbroker immediately after I get it.  After nearly 2 years I simply have zero enthusiasm left for this project.

If it were me, I'd roll my eyes at self for being kind of foolishly naive - try to write that off, and then stick with it.  As a development engineer, it was pretty obvious there was no chance in Hell they had ability to meet such ambitious goals - especially as such a small company.  So to be a dick about it - yea, everyone who preodered was kind of naive if they believed the projections.  

But here you are now.  The gun IS finally out.  It DOES work pretty darned close to as advertised.  From a business/investment point - here you are.  But I get it, you feel played and mislead.  No judgement if you can't overcome that.  I will say this: from my own experience in development, it is improbable that DT at any time wrang their hands in glee with a master plan to sucker you; developers usually actually believe their own optimism.  And as we enter Nov 2017, they actually have a chance to succeed.  I give them their best rating in 2 yrs on that.

Remember, with all projects: quality, price, timelyness - pick 2.  It looks like DT got quality right, and in the end - that's the priority.  I think they need to work on price some - sub $2k is a big threshold for people.  As to time, they are pretty much right on MY expected schedule.  A little faster, to be honest.

I'm not buying one yet myself.  But if I were you with a preorder - I'd self chuckle at my naivety (Can't say I've never blown it - not judging), and roll with it.  Ask me a year ago and I would have said run away.

I guess it would depend on when you pre ordered.

If your money is going to be tied up for a year from now, fuck that.


ETA: You are gaining nothing by pre ordering on this firearm.   IF you have the original price secured that is the one and only thing to hang your hat on.

IMHO if that $200 is important enough that you cannot afford to buy it when it ACTUALLY becomes available, then maybe you shouldnt have put $2000+ towards a gun to begin with.

I want this rifle in my hands as much as anyone, but not until it becomes widely available.

Late Jan 2016. It should be in the next shipment or two, if they’re still shipping.

My order ship date was supposed to be today, formerly 9/30.

Might as well wait that out.

Why did anyone here think this would work out well?  

BTW I never have nor never will send a rifle back in for 'warranty' work.  Sell it and move on.

My take is this.. my money is in it's not like I'm desperate for the money or I wouldn't have bought the rifle. At this point I'm vaguely dismayed and amused by the whole ordeal so I'll bide my time and see where this goes.

And when it shows unusual wear and then breaks beyond an amateur's ability to repair it within the first 200 rounds?

Wait has this been happening or is this a rhetorical question?

Its perfectly normal for good quality magazines to just fall out of a magwell.

Way to be ethical, WS4LIF.

Sadly, not rhetorical.

My buddy had issues with a sticky mag catch, but was able to get them ironed out by cycling it a ton of times. Then it was incredibly gassy at the range (the worst I've experienced), but whatever...and it had plenty of malfunctions

Then I locked it up. or or

He eventually got it unstuck, but a part failed a short time later. It went back to DT at about 150 rounds, came back "fixed."  Broke it again about 200 rounds later...

Back to DT again, fixed better this time and not nearly as gassy. Now he's falling in love with it and tweaking a few things to better suit his tastes.

I am curious about what part failed?  What was causing the malfunctions?  Thanks

The first time it was part of the ejection chute system, which caused a lot of FTE's.  This failure may have contributed to the bolt over-travel that locked the gun up for me.

Second time was a similar failure, although I didn't witness it first hand, so I'm shorter on details. I believe they ended up replacing a few other parts that go around, asnd it's also where the tidbit shared in this thread about their warranty guy leaving helped explain things and get the repair moving...

LGS had a K&M M17S308 show up today - just the lower for some reason, apparently the top half shipped directly to the customer, so I didn't get to see a whole rifle, but apparently some people can quietly ship a new product out the door.....

Report on bullpupforum is that paid in full cancellations are being quoted 30 days for a refund.

Not a good sign. I said that is was a common sign of insolvency in a company or getting very close to that back when the other guy was getting the run around about getting his refund.

I hate that. I loved everything about the gun as promised, especially from a company known for excellent weapons. I didn't put money down because I've seen too many great firearms ideas go bad for one reason or another in the last decade or so with the political climate the way it's been. Also the whole 1st gen having issues with about anything nowadays too. I don't like to be the first. But, as I said, I've seen tons of companies go under in my 50 years, and processing returns and refunds slowly is always one of the signs. I hope it isn't but it's mot looking too good. Not many out there, no real reviews on youtube  or here by real shooters and owners. Out of the few that have been delivered there have been numerous problems, some no big deal, but others , like the feed issues, are unacceptable in a firearm of this price range and with this long of a delay in production and delivery. I just think they bit off more than they could chew. Good intentions but less feasible than first thought.

It's hard for a company to bring something this innovative and new to the market unless they are a huge company, or they're a mil supplier. I hope I'm wrong, and the thing finally gets out there and is successful, and, everyone that wants a refund gets one in a timely manner. 30 days is not timely, nor acceptable. Three days, sure, but any company in solid condition should be able to do it in 3-5 business days. Like I said, if it works out good, and they're in the pipeline and holding up well in a couple of years, I'd be in for one.

I think the .308 Tavor is going to be the real deal. It's not as innovative, but the 5.56 Tavor and the X95 have been seriously tested in combat operations for a long time now, and there will be a lot of similarities but upsized, and IWI can afford to fully fund and test the thing out, and then produce them in numbers high enough to meet demand, and to have good support for repairs and parts. There will be an aftermarket for it as soon as it hits shelves as well. All the companies doing Tavor stuff, Gear Head Works, MI, Giessele etc, will easily move into making products.

I don't.

I have zero interest in a 3 MOA rifle in a 1950s cartidge that has been superseded.

Do we know how accurate the 7 is? For that matter, do we even know how accurate the MDR is? Definitely we don't know the former, I'd argue if we are being honest that we don't know the latter either.

Dt sent me another shipping label to send it back again. I gave them the specs on the screw that I used to fix the mag issue and asked them to send me one with those dimensions. The factory screw does have a taker head so it has more bearing surface inside the hole. I also asked to buy another hammer for it so I can try to work on the one I have and I'll have a replacement in case I screw it up. The trigger really is a massive disappointment to me. Not the weight but the long gritty pull with no feel for when it will break. Mine measures right at the advertised 4.5-5lbs. We'll see what happens.

Valid questions.

Initial reports on the MDR appear to suggest it's a 1 MOA gun when fed proper ammo.  Results aren't definitive, but do appear better than cherry picked data.  DT does have reputation for ultra accurate products in general, which is encouraging as well.

TAVOR 7 accuracy expectations are speculation at this point, of course.  The 5.56 version is known to have mediocre accuracy, and the X95 reputation is a downgrade.  .308 is a heavier recoiling round with (in general) less inherent-accuracy system in general, than milder 5.56 flavors.  It is possible that IWI engaged in accuracy enhancements - however that would be remarkable.  IWI has zero reputation in delivering precision arms or that mentality, and there is nothing in the TAVOR  design to suggest inherent accuracy conducive design.  It is possible the TAVOR 7 will be 1 MOA capable, but fairly improbable in my opinion.  IWI is not the company I would trust getting that right.

Further, there is little reason to expect IWI to offer more modern .260 or 6.5CM versions; as their design philosophy is typically common military cartridge focused.

If you want a highly reliable .308 CQB loudboomer - the Tavor 7 is going to be for you (and there is nothing wrong w that).  If you want a 1000+ yard PRS/Hunting all-purpose capable heavy gun in ultra compact form that is also CQB relevant. - then no, I really doubt it.