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Posted: 10/17/2022 1:24:51 PM EDT
[#1]
I want to know if the other units have coalignment with the viz laser. I'm interested to see if Brass Facts unit was just a one off or if it is indicative of all of them?
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Posted: 10/17/2022 4:21:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Hey guys. New to AFCOM, but I've been following this thread for some time. Really appreciate the helpful info people posted here.
I recently ordered an NGAL from InvisibleSight, haven't got it yet, but would like to share some first-hand info from my email exchanges with the IS guy, who produces all the lasers there. IS seems like a one-man workshop, and he doesn't keep inventories, things are made to order (at least it's the case for NGAL, not sure about LA5). Below are some key points I summarized from his emails (again, his words, unverified): - Pricing for NGAL on website is $990 but there's room for negotiation. Still gonna be more than twice the price of the SomoGear's NGAL, which is around $400 (potted) and is currently OOS. However, according to this dude, SG's quality and QC are far more inferior - Lead time is around 2 wks, shipping to US takes a few days - IS current NGAL is MK3, which means he's been developing it over time with some improvements - "Fully epoxy sealed on every part (so trying to open is almost impossible)" - Vis and IR lasers are co-aligned (SG's units are not co-aligned, off by meters) - Uses old atpial switch (crane plug) - "...comes with a set standard stickers, but can't post pictures with stickers on it" - Every single unit is handmade by IS's owner, he can only make 20 units per month maximum, takes around 10 hrs to just to assemble one, cost for parts is $500+, - "The aluminium housing takes several hrs to polish, then tumbling, heat treatment, sand blasting, then colored" |
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Posted: 10/17/2022 4:22:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Only catch so far is, when asked directly whether it'll hold zero on real guns, he never confirmed, only emphasized his quality is much better than anything else on market. Perhaps he's reluctant to promise anything that might backfire on him, but he sounds very confident about his products, and dissed so hard on SG's co-alignment that I've actually raised my expectations.
So take it for what it is. I'm not speaking for or against IS in anyway for now. Anyone interested could also shoot him emails with questions. My unit should ship by this week and I'll update on first impressions upon receiving it and the performance after testing it out. *Sorry about the separate post, character limit for new accounts |
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Posted: 10/17/2022 5:19:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Does the illum focus knob on the IS NGAL actually, you know, focus, or is it decorative like the Somo?
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Posted: 10/17/2022 8:10:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Yes, according to the website description:
- Adjustable spot-flood IR illuminator - IR illuminator adjusted with the knob It's supposed to be an exact replica of NGAL in terms of form factors and functions. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 2:33:43 AM EDT
[#6]
I have been debating whether to try the IS NGAL, so I am glad somebody is getting one and we can get a report of how it performs. I was told a 4 week lead time so it will be interesting to see how long it takes to ship. In the meantime, I have been emailing him for the past day or so and he sent me some videos. Three are of the NGAL on a building he says is about 100 meters away, one is of a customer using his PEQ-15.
Dropbox with videos. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 8:54:20 AM EDT
[#7]
For sure, I also have a buddy waiting for one of these. Will be interesting to see. It would appear to be a step up from SG, so that is good to very good. If he is potting everything and hand-building at a low rate, I would think that it will withstand 5.56 use. The Somos seem to be doing that (and they can't admit that for legal/political reasons). The real issue is whether it will stay zeroed. Based on what you're telling us here, I'd say there's a good chance.
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Posted: 10/18/2022 9:34:09 AM EDT
[#8]
Your friend has been waiting for about a month now, is that correct? Any update from IS on his unit’s lead time?
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Posted: 10/18/2022 10:02:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey guys. New to AFCOM, but I've been following this thread for some time. Really appreciate the helpful info people posted here. I recently ordered an NGAL from InvisibleSight, haven't got it yet, but would like to share some first-hand info from my email exchanges with the IS guy, who produces all the lasers there. IS seems like a one-man workshop, and he doesn't keep inventories, things are made to order (at least it's the case for NGAL, not sure about LA5). Below are some key points I summarized from his emails (again, his words, unverified): - Pricing for NGAL on website is $990 but there's room for negotiation. Still gonna be more than twice the price of the SomoGear's NGAL, which is around $400 (potted) and is currently OOS. However, according to this dude, SG's quality and QC are far more inferior - Lead time is around 2 wks, shipping to US takes a few days - IS current NGAL is MK3, which means he's been developing it over time with some improvements - "Fully epoxy sealed on every part (so trying to open is almost impossible)" - Vis and IR lasers are co-aligned (SG's units are not co-aligned, off by meters) - Uses old atpial switch (crane plug) - "...comes with a set standard stickers, but can't post pictures with stickers on it" - Every single unit is handmade by IS's owner, he can only make 20 units per month maximum, takes around 10 hrs to just to assemble one, cost for parts is $500+, - "The aluminium housing takes several hrs to polish, then tumbling, heat treatment, sand blasting, then colored" I see this was addressed in a subsequent post. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 10:10:58 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: I have been debating whether to try the IS NGAL, so I am glad somebody is getting one and we can get a report of how it performs. I was told a 4 week lead time so it will be interesting to see how long it takes to ship. In the meantime, I have been emailing him for the past day or so and he sent me some videos. Three are of the NGAL on a building he says is about 100 meters away, one is of a customer using his PEQ-15. Dropbox with videos. Thanks for the videos man! Funny to see Russians (or perhaps Ukrainians? Can't tell) also testing out his stuff. It does make sense, Russia and East Europe had always been a bigger market for the "airsoft gears used on real guns". I'm almost sure a few of his units are being "battle-tested" in Ukraine these days. I think the IS lead time totally depends on how many orders he gets at a certain point. It does seem he's getting a bit more backlogged these days, but the fact that he doesn't rush things to ramp up production is a good sign. So we'll see. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 10:24:09 AM EDT
[#11]
According to IS he's using a VCSEL on the illuminator. Unfortunately the videos are kinda meh so it's hard to judge quality. I've been toying with ordering one but I may wait for the EOTech OGL.
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Posted: 10/18/2022 10:28:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For sure, I also have a buddy waiting for one of these. Will be interesting to see. It would appear to be a step up from SG, so that is good to very good. If he is potting everything and hand-building at a low rate, I would think that it will withstand 5.56 use. The Somos seem to be doing that (and they can't admit that for legal/political reasons). The real issue is whether it will stay zeroed. Based on what you're telling us here, I'd say there's a good chance. I heard IS has been around for many years, so it does seem promising that he claims it "hold zero on 556 auto & 762 semi", he must have collected some feedback from end users on hundreds (if not thousands) of rounds. A according the IS guy, SG's production is "thousands per month" and "their units are assembled by factory workers". SG might also be changing the model (e.g potting services) to tackle competitions in the "high-end" segment. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:13:55 PM EDT
[#13]
For what it is worth. At the end of this video somebody can be heard saying that they had been waiting 8 months for an InvisibleSight laser. I emailed TFB asking if they knew who that was and whether they ever got their laser. I got a response from Nick Chen saying it was a friend of his speaking and that he still hasn't received the laser. The video was published June 9, 2021. That puts his wait time at 2 years so far. I sincerely hope that order somehow slipped through the cracks and got missed rather than that being the norm. For those of you who have ordered recently, please keep us up to date on whether your unit actually ships.
 Somogear 980 nM NGAL Through SiOnyx Aurora Pro |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 7:20:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Unless somebody needs a LAM right now, I'd wait on the Eotech OGL...rumored to use VSCEL illum.
msrp civ $1299 fp $1599 (I think those were the prices quoted, correct me if I'm wrong) |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 9:04:01 PM EDT
[#15]
I've been really contemplating using a Somo to build a clone upper of my issued Sim upper from my last unit.
But I'm having trouble paying $350 for a 10.5 Simunition upper. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 9:52:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Just checked out the live q or die podcast w/ EoTech today, the OGL def looks full of promise if it does use VCSEL and rolls out at the price points mentioned. The illuminator switch on the top is a really smart design. R&D has put some thought into addressing most the pain points with Atpial. This could be EoTech's comeback game.
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Posted: 10/19/2022 2:39:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... just a note for the ones following, I do have two of the Invisible Sights PEQs (shown in picture). One I actually bought many years ago - still works. I have had several real PEQs (including one 'fallen out of the back of a truck') and used them with or without NVG I mostly use them as clone-worthy material on my rifles now days (as shown in the picture - I even painted on of the two Invisible Sight units for that reason), because I no longer have NVG capability (wasn't using it, sold). So I barely turn them on. They both work after years of having purchased them and kept them on the rifles. I will try and test them both next time I go to the range and see how they both held zero. Each one of them was around (if memory serves) the $600 mark, dollar more or dollar less - both bought directly from the Hong Kong company (one off of their eGay's shop, another one direct) https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52353073810_5750c87600_h.jpg Invisible Sight PEQs by Solo__, on Flickr Any chance you have been able to get out and see if these are still zeroed? If they are still zeroed, how many rounds would you estimate they have been mounted for? From when you did have night vision, how did they compare to your full power units? |
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Posted: 10/19/2022 4:19:32 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been really contemplating using a Somo to build a clone upper of my issued Sim upper from my last unit. But I'm having trouble paying $350 for a 10.5 Simunition upper. Just do it already. |
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Posted: 10/20/2022 11:49:27 AM EDT
[#19]
This article from 2020 says somebody waited 9 months for their InvisibleSight PEQ-15. To anyone who has placed an order for one, is there any indication that yours is actually going to ship soon?
https://thereptilehouseblog.com/2020/03/12/the-joy-of-peqs-invisiblesight-mk4-peq-15-la-5-a-brief-review-by-dean/ |
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Posted: 10/20/2022 1:28:35 PM EDT
[#20]
I will check with my bud. As far as I know, he hasn't received it yet.
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Posted: 10/20/2022 3:39:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This article from 2020 says somebody waited 9 months for their InvisibleSight PEQ-15. To anyone who has placed an order for one, is there any indication that yours is actually going to ship soon? https://thereptilehouseblog.com/2020/03/12/the-joy-of-peqs-invisiblesight-mk4-peq-15-la-5-a-brief-review-by-dean/ I've been pushing on the IS guy a couple of times and yesterday he told me my unit is shipping out this weekend. But who knows, last time he said he was aiming for last weekend. |
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Posted: 10/20/2022 4:01:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Any diffuser options for Somagear NGAL Light?
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Posted: 10/21/2022 2:59:35 PM EDT
[#23]
I think it's all moot issue with the EOTech LAM coming out early next year.
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:16:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Re: InvisibleSight PEQs
I have two. Had one for many years - I think over 5 years, probably. Still works. It's the one I painted FDE in the picture(s). The other one I got it probably two years ago - I forget. For the second one, updated (accepts real PEQ push buttons etc. - the first didn't), I had to push and threaten in order to get it in a timely manner (two months or more). Got real pissed, I was on the edge of reporting them to PayPal (I had made payment via PayPal at the time). BUT they work as real PEQs. Had two real ones (one high power one civilian) and these are very similar. The miracle is - if you will - that they both still work as intended, maintain zero and all. The FDE one has been working for years, don't even know how many rounds went through it. Just a FYI  InvisibleSight PEQs by Solo__, on Flickr  InvisibleSight PEQs by Solo__, on Flickr |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 12:34:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Would you say the performance is closer to the full power or the ATPIAL-C?
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Posted: 10/22/2022 7:30:06 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would you say the performance is closer to the full power or the ATPIAL-C? (ETA: imagine 5 years-ish ago; when full power was really way more rare than it could be today, on ANY device other than full-military ones) |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 7:32:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it's all moot issue with the EOTech LAM coming out early next year. It’s still over a grand though. And it’s neutered. Had the somo for going on 2ish months now. It’s still working for anyone who cares. Zero hasn’t shifted either. Round count is 500ish of plinking and general shooting (under nods). I am about to pull the trigger on another. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 9:04:31 AM EDT
[#28]
Well, yeah it would appear the SG unit is the best bet these days. As to any kind of diffuser/focuser, Villain Weapon Systems has a couple of new items out. The first is the EFL which narrows/focuses down the beam of your ATPIAL enough to make it usable for at least 100m. It comes in two flavors, either 3 or 1 degree. The second is the END which is a diffuser for a full power PEQ-15. Now they say it ain't warrantied for any other units, like a SG or whatever, but, this might give you a wider, usable beam. They say definitely don't use it for anything over 50mW, like a LA-5. But since the SG PEQ-15 is at 20mW these days, might be something to take a look at. Especially you guys with the older units with narrower beams. I have two in that category so may give it a try.
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Posted: 10/22/2022 9:34:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Just a reminder that the Somo was ALWAYS locked at 20mW.
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Posted: 10/22/2022 11:30:16 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Re: InvisibleSight PEQs I have two. Had one for many years - I think over 5 years, probably. Still works. It's the one I painted FDE in the picture(s). The other one I got it probably two years ago - I forget. For the second one, updated (accepts real PEQ push buttons etc. - the first didn't), I had to push and threaten in order to get it in a timely manner (two months or more). Got real pissed, I was on the edge of reporting them to PayPal (I had made payment via PayPal at the time). BUT they work as real PEQs. Had two real ones (one high power one civilian) and these are very similar. The miracle is - if you will - that they both still work as intended, maintain zero and all. The FDE one has been working for years, don't even know how many rounds went through it. Just a FYI https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443528487_03e1e09c77_h.jpg InvisibleSight PEQs by Solo__, on Flickr https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52444041491_8080f98359_h.jpgInvisibleSight PEQs by Solo__, on Flickr Thanks for sharing man! From the feedback I've seen so far, the performance and durability of IS units is undeniable. The unpredictable lead time does seem to be an issue. |
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Posted: 10/22/2022 5:10:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for sharing man! From the feedback I've seen so far, the performance and durability of IS units is undeniable. The unpredictable lead time does seem to be an issue. It's how you say. They work well (heck even my years old one still works well, unexpected frankly - I think I had paid USD600 for that one back then; the other one was probably USD700 or 750, can't remember) but the guy definitely needs to be reminded continuously to deliver. Keep that in mind!  |
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Posted: 10/23/2022 2:13:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just a reminder that the Somo was ALWAYS locked at 20mW. |
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Posted: 10/23/2022 8:36:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Yeah we keep getting into this discussion, where some guys insist SG has always been 20mW and the higher power units were merely a typo. And then, there's guys who had the older units and swear they were higher powered. All I know is that SG has been on a continuous process of developing these things, so it wouldn't surprise me if some earlier units had more power, just like some earlier units were "out of bound" (like in the 980-1,000 range).
Whether it was typo, advertising bullshit, or actually higher-powered, it's very difficult to know. When you are dealing with a factory in China, I would be very careful talking in absolutes, saying this never happen, or this always was. I mean, just how are you going to verify that? Based on what you've read on line? Or an email from someone you've never met? I have no definitive knowledge of this either way, and I don't know how anyone else can claim to either. For example, if SG's CEO came out with a statement and said in no uncertain terms, we never went over 20nW. Would you believe it? How could you even verify it? I think what could possibly be as close to the truth as we can get, is that variances in QC, which we've all seen in other things, might have been responsible for variances in power. I have noticed this myself, after buying 3 of them over a 2-year period. It's like no 2 units are exactly the same. On one the zero dials are loose as hell; on another they're drum tight. On one the IR allum is really loose; on another it's tightened up. On one the button feels mushy, on another it's a definite click. So even if we take them at their word, and say they never TRIED to make them over 20mW, it would not surprise me if some earlier units were over 20 mW by mistake. But by all means, continue to believe in whatever you want. |
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Posted: 10/23/2022 12:25:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Man, if these really are durable enough to run, I'd consider selling my FP PEQ and picking up two of these.
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Posted: 10/23/2022 1:10:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man, if these really are durable enough to run, I'd consider selling my FP PEQ and picking up two of these. Hello fellow enthusiast 
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Posted: 10/23/2022 4:56:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Does anyone have access to a laser power meter? Could answer these questions.
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Posted: 10/24/2022 10:16:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey guys. New to AFCOM, but I've been following this thread for some time. Really appreciate the helpful info people posted here. I recently ordered an NGAL from InvisibleSight, haven't got it yet, but would like to share some first-hand info from my email exchanges with the IS guy, who produces all the lasers there. IS seems like a one-man workshop, and he doesn't keep inventories, things are made to order (at least it's the case for NGAL, not sure about LA5). Below are some key points I summarized from his emails (again, his words, unverified): - Pricing for NGAL on website is $990 but there's room for negotiation. Still gonna be more than twice the price of the SomoGear's NGAL, which is around $400 (potted) and is currently OOS. However, according to this dude, SG's quality and QC are far more inferior - Lead time is around 2 wks, shipping to US takes a few days - IS current NGAL is MK3, which means he's been developing it over time with some improvements - "Fully epoxy sealed on every part (so trying to open is almost impossible)" - Vis and IR lasers are co-aligned (SG's units are not co-aligned, off by meters) - Uses old atpial switch (crane plug) - "...comes with a set standard stickers, but can't post pictures with stickers on it" - Every single unit is handmade by IS's owner, he can only make 20 units per month maximum, takes around 10 hrs to just to assemble one, cost for parts is $500+, - "The aluminium housing takes several hrs to polish, then tumbling, heat treatment, sand blasting, then colored" Update: My InvisibleSight unit shipped out from HK via Hong Kong Post. IS guy says it should be delivered within a week or so. I placed the order on the 8th so it's a little more than 2 weeks, not that bad. He mentioned that the "normal" lead time is 4 weeks, and I hitched a ride on this batch halfway. |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 10:29:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Update: My InvisibleSight unit shipped out from HK via Hong Kong Post. IS guy says it should be delivered within a week or so. I placed the order on the 8th so it's a little more than 2 weeks, not that bad. He mentioned that the "normal" lead time is 4 weeks, and I hitched a ride on this batch halfway. Damn I really want one of the IS models. I wonder if that 4 week counter starts now lol. I'll be attending a Greenline Night Fighter class Dec 2-3 and would like to run one on my backup rifle. |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 10:36:25 AM EDT
[#39]
Def contact the guy to check out, he might still have a few extras from this batch.
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Posted: 10/24/2022 10:51:18 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Def contact the guy to check out, he might still have a few extras from this batch. I sent out an email. Hopefully that's the case. I'd be all over it. And I have a potted somogear coming I could compare to. |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 11:05:43 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Update: My InvisibleSight unit shipped out from HK via Hong Kong Post. IS guy says it should be delivered within a week or so. I placed the order on the 8th so it's a little more than 2 weeks, not that bad. He mentioned that the "normal" lead time is 4 weeks, and I hitched a ride on this batch halfway. |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 11:36:59 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Update: My InvisibleSight unit shipped out from HK via Hong Kong Post. IS guy says it should be delivered within a week or so. I placed the order on the 8th so it's a little more than 2 weeks, not that bad. He mentioned that the "normal" lead time is 4 weeks, and I hitched a ride on this batch halfway. Looking forward to hearing how the illuminator performs. Do you have any other LAMs to compare it against? |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 11:57:19 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking forward to hearing how the illuminator performs. Do you have any other LAMs to compare it against? Only aptial-c, so it's not even close. Pretty sure the IS illuminator is gonna crush a neutered peq |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 12:21:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Even still, it will be good to now how much better than the ATPIAL-C it performs. Please let us know how far you feel it is usable and if possible pictures would be greatly appreciated.
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Posted: 10/24/2022 1:29:29 PM EDT
[#45]
For sure, will post a short review with pics after receiving it. Don't have a designated optics cam, I could make do w the cellphone
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Posted: 10/24/2022 1:41:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For sure, will post a short review with pics after receiving it. Don't have a designated optics cam, I could make do w the cellphone I went ahead and ordered a LA5 clone from IS. I'll do a comparison to the Somogear and my USNV Designate IRV when it arrives. I'll also throw it on my MK18 for the nightfighter course to get some rounds through it. He said its currently 2 week lead time for LA5 and 4 week for NGAL |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 3:43:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: on high? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just a reminder that the Somo was ALWAYS locked at 20mW. There was a fuss a few months ago about Somo reducing the laser power from 60mW to 20mW. Turns out, it was Somo simply correcting their website. The internal parts can do 60mW, but they never shipped any at that power level, capped them all at 20, but whoever posted the original specs didn't get the memo. |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 3:49:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went ahead and ordered a LA5 clone from IS. I'll do a comparison to the Somogear and my USNV Designate IRV when it arrives. I'll also throw it on my MK18 for the nightfighter course to get some rounds through it. He said its currently 2 week lead time for LA5 and 4 week for NGAL Sounds good man, we need as many datapoints as possible. Wish I were in a free state with cool night courses! |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 4:34:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds good man, we need as many datapoints as possible. Wish I were in a free state with cool night courses! Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds good man, we need as many datapoints as possible. Wish I were in a free state with cool night courses! Honestly I'm kind of tempted to sell my Designate IR V and get the NGAL ordered now just to have it... lol he seems very confident in his stuff. I mentioned a comparison to Somogear and he said Yes, if you can do some comparison. It's actually not even comparable. You will understand, when you got mine. So many people asking about what the different and why mine is so much more expensive. The best way is see with your own eyes and actually shoot a few thousands round with it. |
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Posted: 10/24/2022 4:43:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds good man, we need as many datapoints as possible. Wish I were in a free state with cool night courses! You're in CT? Hit me up if you want to talk about some. |
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