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Posted: 5/29/2019 1:01:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mech4matsnova]
This thread is for the folks who are looking to clone the XM4 carbine.  This thread is a work in progress and will be updated as more photos/info become available.  If you have pics or info you would like to have added to the OP please IM/email me.

The XM4 program was started around 1985 at the behest of the USMC Recon units who were looking to replace their aging/worn out XM177s and M3s with a lightweight carbine length version of the standard issue M16A2(adopted by the USMC in 1983 as the standard rifle).

Specs









Upper:

A2, CM forge, 8/3 rear sight, A2 aperture(0-2), large round FA(early), small FA(later), A2 port door.  Some early uppers are marked XM4 above the gas tube hole.







Barrel Assembly: C MP 14.5" M4 profile, Chrome bore and chamber, A2 flash hider, peel washer(early) or crush washer(later), non F fsb w/A2 front sight post, standard delta ring, large diameter handguard









BCG:  FA profile, chrome key and carrier lining, phosphate exterior, c marked, MP bolt, standard charging handle



Lower:





A1 profile(early) or A2 profile(later), some marked XM4, others Colts M16A2, A2 grip.  Theres some variation in the selector markings, some are marked "BURST", others are marked "AUTO".



Stock/Buffer Tube:  Colt N1 type, 2 or 4 position buffer tube, smooth lock nut(early) or locknut(later)



Archived XM4 thread feat. coldblue and others involved in the A2 program



Link to XM4 album courtesy of AmericanSheepdog

XM4 album(36 images)

Still from Colt 1993 promo, Rangers testing the XM4



Img courtesy of coldblue, circa 1989

Attachment Attached File


Colt M4 promo video, 1993

The ORIGINAL Colt M4 Carbine Video 1993


Foreign Users

Israeli Border Police are currently issued XM4 style carbines





Mexican Marines are issued XM4 carbines







Link Posted: 5/29/2019 1:41:19 PM EDT
[#1]
http://chestercountyarmory.com/products/?prodID=126

This linked transferable M16A2 carbine has an early barrel profile.
Link Posted: 5/29/2019 1:48:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mech4matsnova] [#2]
My clone(non NFA 16"):

Link Posted: 5/29/2019 2:19:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 5/30/2019 11:14:26 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 5/30/2019 12:15:21 PM EDT
[#5]
What an excellent posting. I think that XM4 shared by Coldblue is the one I saw back in the late 80s
Link Posted: 5/30/2019 1:01:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JBecker_72] [#6]
I want to build or buy one of these pretty bad. Been considering just buying the Troy clone. What's the best way to get one without chasing around a bunch of old correct parts?
Link Posted: 5/30/2019 2:04:21 PM EDT
[#7]
In before the "Its just a 727"
Link Posted: 5/30/2019 5:36:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USGI:
In before the "Its just a 727"
View Quote
We could always tell them that it's a 720
Link Posted: 5/30/2019 7:45:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USGI:
In before the "Its just a 727"
View Quote
It almost is, almost.  There are a couple differences, as shown above.
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 3:18:03 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:

It almost is, almost.  There are a couple differences, as shown above.
View Quote
Well, if you want to be technical, I would argue that there are 4 major "models" that could be done as builds... Ignoring of course, local mods, minor parts changes, fire control changes that cause a new model number, Rifles that are in 727 configuration, but with older lowers,  etc....

1-"M-16A2 carbine" 727 . "COTS" carbine
2-"XM4" with CM upper, "Property of US Govt marked, UNIQUE barrel profile.
3- "M4" with carry handle. Mythical "USGI" piece that is more or less the same as a standard USGI M4 but with an A2 upper.
4- Colt 777 "COTS" carbine from late 90s. Probably not purchased by the US Military, but still neat.
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 10:21:38 AM EDT
[#11]
I purchased an Armalite ex-LEO upper assembly a few years ago, that has a lot of characteristics of both the 727 and XM4. I'm at work, so I can't post and pictures of it:

Upper Receiver: A2, AR forge, 8/3 rear sight, Meprolight A2 aperture (0-2), small round FA, A2 port door.

Barrel Assembly: Unmarked 14.5” M4 profile with A2X flash hider (pinned and welded), chrome bore and chamber, non-F FSB with Meprolight A2 post, standard delta ring, skinny 7-hole handguards, and standard sling loop below FSB.

I added a Toolcraft and MPF BCG and standard charging handle later.

I don’t know if Armalite was trying to capitalize on Colt’s marketing, by offering a similar but cheaper rifle.
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 11:45:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USGI:

Well, if you want to be technical, I would argue that there are 4 major "models" that could be done as builds... Ignoring of course, local mods, minor parts changes, fire control changes that cause a new model number, Rifles that are in 727 configuration, but with older lowers,  etc....

1-"M-16A2 carbine" 727 . "COTS" carbine
2-"XM4" with CM upper, "Property of US Govt marked, UNIQUE barrel profile.
3- "M4" with carry handle. Mythical "USGI" piece that is more or less the same as a standard USGI M4 but with an A2 upper. Non F marked FSB on an M4 profile barrel.
4- Colt 777 "COTS" carbine from late 90s. Probably not purchased by the US Military, but still neat.
View Quote
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 12:05:06 PM EDT
[#13]
So, then there's THIS particular barrel that was sold by Fidelis I guess a few years back, to add to the potential barrel profiles to be mimic'd for XM4 builds.

Really it seems going the lengths of getting the lower engravings done and one of the prototype barrel profiles would be what sets a true XM4 build apart. Perhaps some place like Green Mountain could be convinced to do some runs of some of the above profiles?
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 12:12:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:
So, then there's THIS particular barrel that was sold by Fidelis I guess a few years back, to add to the potential barrel profiles to be mimic'd for XM4 builds.

Really it seems going the lengths of getting the lower engravings done and one of the prototype barrel profiles would be what sets a true XM4 build apart. Perhaps some place like Green Mountain could be convinced to do some runs of some of the above profiles?
View Quote
Chopping a regular HBAR, would get one close enough, no?

Also boo on this thread, now y’all got more wheels spinning in my head.
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 12:21:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks:
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks:
Originally Posted By USGI:

Well, if you want to be technical, I would argue that there are 4 major "models" that could be done as builds... Ignoring of course, local mods, minor parts changes, fire control changes that cause a new model number, Rifles that are in 727 configuration, but with older lowers,  etc....

1-"M-16A2 carbine" 727 . "COTS" carbine
2-"XM4" with CM upper, "Property of US Govt marked, UNIQUE barrel profile.
3- "M4" with carry handle. Mythical "USGI" piece that is more or less the same as a standard USGI M4 but with an A2 upper. Non F marked FSB on an M4 profile barrel.
4- Colt 777 "COTS" carbine from late 90s. Probably not purchased by the US Military, but still neat.
That is kind of a given.

Even the 777 barrels, despite being late 90s/2000s production have non F marked FSB.
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 12:23:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:
So, then there's THIS particular barrel that was sold by Fidelis I guess a few years back, to add to the potential barrel profiles to be mimic'd for XM4 builds.

Really it seems going the lengths of getting the lower engravings done and one of the prototype barrel profiles would be what sets a true XM4 build apart. Perhaps some place like Green Mountain could be convinced to do some runs of some of the above profiles?
View Quote
Not saying that is not a legit barrel, but that goes outside the "XM4" experiment standard if that makes sense.

Experimental/limited production at Colt? Sure. But "Property of US Gov't" XM4? No.
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 2:11:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USGI:
Not saying that is not a legit barrel, but that goes outside the "XM4" experiment standard if that makes sense.

Experimental/limited production at Colt? Sure. But "Property of US Gov't" XM4? No.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USGI:
Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:
So, then there's THIS particular barrel that was sold by Fidelis I guess a few years back, to add to the potential barrel profiles to be mimic'd for XM4 builds.

Really it seems going the lengths of getting the lower engravings done and one of the prototype barrel profiles would be what sets a true XM4 build apart. Perhaps some place like Green Mountain could be convinced to do some runs of some of the above profiles?
Not saying that is not a legit barrel, but that goes outside the "XM4" experiment standard if that makes sense.

Experimental/limited production at Colt? Sure. But "Property of US Gov't" XM4? No.
I had thought that there was talk of heavy profiles being explored through the XM4 program? Could that have come about as the Army moved in on the program? Or maybe was a step towards what became the later M4A1 SOCOM heavy barrels? It's probably as you said, I'm guessing that Fidelis got the info from Colt, and Colt probably linked up the numbering on it with it being from a prototype.

Might be worth asking @coldblue if there's any info from the USMC period or perhaps if this was after the Marine's ran out of funding to support it.
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 2:23:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 2:46:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 8:15:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BushBoar:
Tacked.
View Quote
Thanks

@Augee

@coldblue

Do yuns want to contribute to the OP?  Anyone here get issued one?
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 8:17:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:
So, then there's THIS particular barrel that was sold by Fidelis I guess a few years back, to add to the potential barrel profiles to be mimic'd for XM4 builds.

Really it seems going the lengths of getting the lower engravings done and one of the prototype barrel profiles would be what sets a true XM4 build apart. Perhaps some place like Green Mountain could be convinced to do some runs of some of the above profiles?
View Quote
I'd be on a XM marked experimental profile bbl like a fat girl on cake.
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 8:38:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:
So, then there's THIS particular barrel that was sold by Fidelis I guess a few years back, to add to the potential barrel profiles to be mimic'd for XM4 builds.

Really it seems going the lengths of getting the lower engravings done and one of the prototype barrel profiles would be what sets a true XM4 build apart. Perhaps some place like Green Mountain could be convinced to do some runs of some of the above profiles?
View Quote
Fidelis had some killer Colt stuff back in the day. I kick myself for not buying one of these uppers from them. They had them available for a long time, and after Sandy Hook their stock was wiped out.

http://fidelisfirearms.com/2011/01/03/colt-m4-a2-14-5-fixed-carryhandle-upper/



Or maybe I should have bought one of these instead.

http://fidelisfirearms.com/2011/03/10/colt-14-5-lightweight-723-m16-a2-complete-upper-895/

Link Posted: 5/31/2019 9:29:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JBecker_72] [#23]
So again, what's the best way to get one of these complete uppers?
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 9:47:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JBecker_72:
So again, what's the best way to get one of these complete uppers?
View Quote
Scour the internet(EE) and build it.
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 11:01:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Colt XM4 SN 6153635 from my thread in the retro forum. Thought this would be useful here.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 7:49:55 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:

Scour the internet(EE) and build it.
View Quote
Dang, I was hoping someone had something complete and ready to go. Guess it's not retro enough yet for that.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 8:30:10 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JBecker_72:
Dang, I was hoping someone had something complete and ready to go. Guess it's not retro enough yet for that.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JBecker_72:
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:

Scour the internet(EE) and build it.
Dang, I was hoping someone had something complete and ready to go. Guess it's not retro enough yet for that.
You could try RRA or Windham.  Fulton maybe.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 2:47:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HenryKnoxFineBooks] [#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog:
Colt XM4 SN 6153635 from my thread in the retro forum. Thought this would be useful here.
View Quote
Very useful - a few comments until coldblue happens by to offer more insight. IIRC from those who were there at the time, The XM4 project starts as a follow on from the M16A2, thus the lower shares those characteristics, rather than the A1 lower and AUTO from the 727 used by SF. Other parts such as barrel, HGs, stock are parts just lying around from previous production. The program stops due to lack of funding. The program resumes in the early 1990s under Army sponsorship, TACOM looking for a replacement for the M3 for armor crews, etc.

This is where many of the M4 features come into being - 4 position stock, "fat" HGs, barrel with cuts for the M203, M4 feedramps, to support what becomes the M4A1 for SF use. The date on the build of 6153635 would be interesting in order to help ID when the D FA went to the current small round, and progress of=n feedramps. My C-M upper has feedramps on my XM4 build, but I also have a dark gray Colt Cerro upper with feedramps  that is marked 4 over the gas tube opening, which is one reason why I'm in the camp of those who think there was the initial shipment of fixed handle M4s.

OTOH, my dark gray C-AF flat top upper for the similar time frame M4A1 is M4 marked..... and so we are at the period in time where the F marked FSB appears.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 4:10:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks:

Very useful - a few comments until coldblue happens by to offer more insight. IIRC from those who were there at the time, The XM4 project starts as a follow on from the M16A2, thus the lower shares those characteristics, rather than the A1 lower and AUTO from the 727 used by SF. Other parts such as barrel, HGs, stock are parts just lying around from previous production. The program stops due to lack of funding. The program resumes in the early 1990s under Army sponsorship, TACOM looking for a replacement for the M# for armor crews, etc.

This is where many of the M4 features come into being - 4 position stock, "fat" HGs, barrel with cuts for the M203, M4 feedramps, to support what becomes the M4A1 for SF use. The date on the build of 6153635 would be interesting in order to help ID when the D FA went to the current small round, and progress of=n feedramps. My C-M upper has feedramps on my XM4 build, but I also have a dark gray Colt Cerro upper with feedramps  that is marked 4 over the gas tube opening, which is one reason why I'm in the camp of those who think there was the initial shipment of fixed handle M4s.

OTOH, my dark gray C-AF flat top upper for the similar time frame M4A1 is M4 marked..... and so we are at the period in time where the F marked FSB appears.
View Quote
727s can have both lowers.

Just a shot in the dark, but if the XM4 used the same serial number block as USGI Colt M-16A2s, then the 615xxxx serial number is pretty early.

My issued M-16A2 from 95-98 was 6213499, and it had a large D, grey, etc.

M4A1s were issued in 1995. The "White side" SF I supported for Bosnia in December 1995 had just gotten them. Hadn't even properly zeroed them.

The first "M4" issued to conventional forces, I saw was late 1997, and it was a curiosity then. Summer of 1997, I did a large mixed expercise with guys from all over Ft.Bragg. Nobody had any sort of short carbines, with the exception of the "Group" support guys. Even the 18th Airborne Corp LRS (guys in the 1993 Colt demo video) were rockin M-16A2s.
Link Posted: 6/2/2019 7:49:59 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 6/2/2019 1:41:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog:
Colt XM4 SN 6153635 from my thread in the retro forum. Thought this would be useful here.
View Quote
Thanks for posting that! Thank You COLDBLUE, for your contributions.  Amazing how similar the barrel profile looks compared to a Colt Canada C8A3 15.8".
Link Posted: 6/2/2019 2:21:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mech4matsnova] [#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By imdBman:
Thanks for posting that! Thank You COLDBLUE, for your contributions.  Amazing how similar the barrel profile looks compared to a Colt Canada C8A3 15.8".
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By imdBman:
Originally Posted By AmericanSheepDog:
Colt XM4 SN 6153635 from my thread in the retro forum. Thought this would be useful here.
Thanks for posting that! Thank You COLDBLUE, for your contributions.  Amazing how similar the barrel profile looks compared to a Colt Canada C8A3 15.8".
Special thanks to @coldblue @AmericanSheepDog @USGI and all others who have contributed so far.

Updated OP with new pics and new Foreign Users section
Link Posted: 6/2/2019 5:58:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:

Special thanks to @coldblue @AmericanSheepDog @USGI and all others who have contributed so far.

Updated OP with new pics and new Foreign Users section
View Quote
np. I spend most time in retro but I popped over here and saw this thread. I’ll probably build an A2 and an XM4 at some point. Glad I could help!
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 1:38:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Just my Clone inspiration. Not a lot that is actually Colt pieces except for stock and buffer tube extension.

Link Posted: 8/8/2019 12:03:30 PM EDT
[#35]
@coldblue would you be interested in helping me write a report for the West Point Museum on the rifle I photographed?
Link Posted: 8/10/2019 7:23:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 8/13/2019 1:35:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Email sent.
Link Posted: 8/27/2019 1:48:25 PM EDT
[#38]
The XM4 on display at the National Infantry Museum, Fort Benning, GA. SN 6153641

Attachment Attached File

Courtesy National Infantry Museum Collection, United States Army
Attachment Attached File

Courtesy National Infantry Museum Collection, United States Army
Attachment Attached File

Courtesy National Infantry Museum Collection, United States Army
Link Posted: 8/27/2019 3:24:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Thanks for the pics.

An XM-4 with the oddball barrel is on my project list when I get back to the States in a year. I already have a late 1994 6520 to use as a donor.
Link Posted: 8/30/2019 10:57:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 9/14/2019 6:11:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
My clone(non NFA 16"):

https://i.imgur.com/E62Wb7v.jpg
View Quote
details please?
Link Posted: 9/15/2019 8:44:56 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By togadelic:
details please?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By togadelic:
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
My clone(non NFA 16"):

https://i.imgur.com/E62Wb7v.jpg
details please?
Grey CM A2 upper(from EE)
80 lower, Colt guts
Colt FA carrier, MPI bolt
16" 1-7 C MP bbl
N Stock
4 pos buffer tube
Surplus side swivel(FSB)

I plan to take the bbl down and over to my machinist buddy so he can turn it down to the correct XM profile
Link Posted: 9/15/2019 11:16:20 AM EDT
[#43]
I've mentioned it before, but my Marine buddy was carrying some kind of carbine in Africa in the late 90's.

Haven't talked to him in a bit, so I'm fuzzy on the details that he's probably fuzzy on.  Possibly XM-4, or possibly a COTS?
Link Posted: 9/15/2019 12:10:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:

Grey CM A2 upper(from EE)
80 lower, Colt guts
Colt FA carrier, MPI bolt
16" 1-7 C MP bbl
N Stock
4 pos buffer tube
Surplus side swivel(FSB)

I plan to take the bbl down and over to my machinist buddy so he can turn it down to the correct XM profile
View Quote
it is awesome
Link Posted: 9/15/2019 6:37:49 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By togadelic:
it is awesome
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By togadelic:
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:

Grey CM A2 upper(from EE)
80 lower, Colt guts
Colt FA carrier, MPI bolt
16" 1-7 C MP bbl
N Stock
4 pos buffer tube
Surplus side swivel(FSB)

I plan to take the bbl down and over to my machinist buddy so he can turn it down to the correct XM profile
it is awesome
Thanks, it started life as a parts gun.  Cloning is a damn disease...
Link Posted: 9/19/2019 3:16:31 PM EDT
[#46]
What is the correct XM4 barrel profile, how does it differ from an 727 barrel?

William
Link Posted: 9/20/2019 1:06:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By schaz42:
What is the correct XM4 barrel profile, how does it differ from an 727 barrel?

William
View Quote
The 727 Barrel would potentially have the sling swivel attached, while the XM4 probably would not in order to leave more clearance for the M203 and have the side sling swivel attached. A 727 barrel might not have the M203 cut forward of the FSB.
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 6:09:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 11/24/2019 2:34:49 AM EDT
[#49]
Nice Augie! Great to see your information Added here.
Link Posted: 12/26/2019 2:40:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jjz3] [#50]
Chris at Small Arms Solutions inspired me to do a clone with a Bushmaster A2 carbine (16”)

Added Colt N1 stock and four position tube, 1997 Colt M4 handguards, early 90s Colt A2 grip. Now just need to install the Colt side sling swivel.

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