What about a brace makes it legit for use on a pistol?

If I wanted to make my own, could I?

Can a brace be used on a rifle tube, legally?

Are there length restrictions to a brace? Too long, too short?

Just curious

It is my understanding that the ATF has never listed what constitutes a brace. Manufacturers have tried to get them to put it into writing, at least guidelines to follow, but they refuse. It appears the ATF wants to keep it vague so that they can arbitrarily impose their authoritarian 'opinion' (which is NOT law) any way they see fit whenever they see fit ... even if it goes against their previous 'opinion'.

A brace is just a brace and can be used on anything because it is NOT a stock.

Personally I'd just do what you want and just don't take it to a local range if you're concerned. I'm no lawyer and no lawyer can claim they know what the ATF's 'opinion' is much of the time. I have my own range in my back yard so I rarely take my stuff anywhere.

Why not.  It's a pistol brace, not meth.

The official definition of a Pistol Brace is as follows:

Pistol Brace (noun) - A device which allows the Federal Government to entrap gun owners attempting to follow vague and unspecified agency opinions which do not carry the weight of law.

Seriously though, the ATF has flip-flopped on these opinions so many times I honestly thought Mitt Romney might be the director.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. Do not act on this information in any way. For entertainment purposes only.


Based on their latest "guidance" and the FOIA document dumps, I can tell you what I would do to try to make a home-made pistol stabilizing brace as prosecution-resistant as possible, but what you do is entirely your responsibility. Read the FOIA and other publically-released documents yourself and come to your own conclusions.

I would make sure the rear-facing surface area of the brace is significantly less than 5 square inches (the approximate surface area of the most common M4 stock).
I would use a smooth pistol buffer tube.  I would NOT use an buffer tube that can be used for any stock.
I would make sure the brace actually BRACES the pistol for one-handed use.
If the brace needed a strap, I would make sure the strap is at least 23" long and not elastic (same as the SB15).
I would make sure the brace does not resemble any stock.
I would make sure the brace uses a friction lock on the tube instead of a pin-in-a-hole type of setup. (They mention in one case that longitudinal stabilization (forward to back) is a characteristic of a stock, not a brace.)
I would make sure the brace cannot be extended to 13.5" or more "length of pull", even if someone tries forcing or reconfiguring it. (In one case in the FOIA document dump they forcibly re-configured the brace LOP on a submitted firearm just to label it an SBS)
I would make sure the brace, when used as designed, keeps the barrel parallel to the arm so it may be fired accurately (not pointing up or down) with one hand.

Additionally, I would do the following for the braced pistol itself:

I would not install any forward grip, hand stop, or anything that could even IMPLY that a second hand is intended to be used.
I would not install a bipod.
I would only use optics or sights that can be used at arms-length, in EVERY available configuration of the sight. (Tiny rifle aperture on an M4 sight cannot be used at arms-length.)
I would keep the weight of the entire pistol under 7 lbs.
I would only use magazines that hold fewer than 20 cartridges.


Best of luck.

Make a 1934 phone work with today’s technology.
You can’t. Neither can they.

SB Tactical and Congressmen have been trying to nail that jello to the wall for some time now to no avail.

It's whatever the AFT feels it is at the time.

Magical ATF brace dust.....which the ATF can at random decide to shake off the brace to turn it into a stock.

Currently a brace is a brace if was designed and intended to be used as a brace and not as a stock.

As determined by whom?

As far as I know, the ATF hasn’t come out with anything or much regarding what a brace is. I know the different manufacturers have submitted their designs to have the ATF look at them and determine if they would be acceptable as a brace. I use the Gearhead Works Tailhook Mod 2. Below is a link with their submission of the brace and ATF’s “approval” of it. I keep a copy of this letter in my office just in case I ever need it.

https://gearheadworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Mod-2-Approval-Letter.pdf

^This....

Criminally underrated response!

This was actually the reply I was laughing about!  Truer words......

No rules.
ATF has approved each brace on a case by case basis.
And there’s quite a few braces for sale that haven’t been approved.

The only publicly ATF approved brace is the SB Tactical brace. Other companies may or may not have submitted their own design to the ATF.

You can make your own brace and submit it to the ATF for consideration. They will write you back. This is probably the best idea since it will protect you from a conviction since you directly asked ATF and got a letter back stating that it is okay for your intended use. Be warned that bypassing the NFA law to make your own shoulder stock is completely illegal. The brace has to be used for that... a brace.

While there isn't an official ruling, the LOP must be less than 13.5 at the most extended position measured from the face of the trigger to the back of the buffer tube OR in the case of where the brace is on the pistol lower, at its most extended position.

With that said, it's very important how you build your pistol:

- Once a rifle, always a rifle.
- You cannot use a factory rifle and convert it to a pistol.
- You can use a stripped lower to make a pistol.
- Once you make a "other" stripped lower into a rifle, you can never convert it back to a pistol.
- You can use a pistol lower, one that you either bought or made yourself, and convert it to a rifle. But once it is made into a rifle, it can never be converted to a pistol.
- You can convert a pistol to a rifle and vice versa so long as it remains a pistol (see US vs Thompson).

As you can see, lots of contradictions. The point is once yo put a stock on the AR lower, it is considered a rifle and you can never convert it back to a pistol. So if you have a lower that you use with a rifle upper that has a rifle stock attached to it, you cannot convert it back to your pistol without violating the NFA.

However, in situations like with SBA4 braces, you can take that brace off, take the upper off, put a 16 inch upper on it, and put a stock on the rear and once you're done you can convert it back to the pistol state by first taking the stock off, then taking the upper off. However, and this is very important, if you take the upper off (even for cleaning) and the stock is on the lower, it's now a rifle and you can never convert it back to its pistol state. If you put the pistol upper on it at that point, it's now consider an illegal SBR.

If you want to build your own pistol brace, you must 1) buy a pistol lower or stripped lower that was filed as "other," 2) you must build the lower as a pistol first (it can never be a rifle), and 3) you must always keep it as a pistol and ensure you never convert it as a rifle.

So my advice.... don't mess with it unless you have a letter from the ATF and on top of that you understand the above points.

Keep in mind the key difference between a "rifle" and a "pistol" is that a "rifle" is meant to be fired from the shoulder.

So in theory, you could make it such that the buffer tube attaches to a elbow pad, and you can shoot the pistol ar by bending your elbows back and using your other hand to pull the trigger.

So much incorrect information here it's staggering.

- Once a rifle, always a rifle. - Incorrect. The proper phrasing would be: First a rifle, always a rifle.

- You can use a pistol lower, one that you either bought or made yourself, and convert it to a rifle. But once it is made into a rifle, it can never be converted to a pistol. - Incorrect. A pistol that was legally assembled to begin with can be freely converted from a pistol to a legal rifle configuration and back again.

- You can convert a pistol to a rifle and vice versa so long as it remains a pistol (see US vs Thompson). - Not even sure what you mean; you just contradicted your previous statement, and how would you "convert a pistol to a rifle as long as it remains a pistol"? See above.

The point is once yo put a stock on the AR lower, it is considered a rifle and you can never convert it back to a pistol. - Total nonsense. Putting a stock on a lower does not a rifle make; putting a stock on a lower and attaching a barreled upper makes it a rifle. The configuration of the lower alone is immaterial. You can purchase a complete virgin lower with a stock, remove the stock and build a pistol. Perfectly legal.

So if you have a lower that you use with a rifle upper that has a rifle stock attached to it, you cannot convert it back to your pistol without violating the NFA. - More nonsense. If it was built as a pistol first, you can legally convert it to a rifle and back again.

However, in situations like with SBA4 braces, you can take that brace off, take the upper off, put a 16 inch upper on it, and put a stock on the rear and once you're done you can convert it back to the pistol state by first taking the stock off, then taking the upper off. Finally, something that's mostly correct! However, I'm not sure what you think the brand or model of the brace has to do with anything; you can do this with any pistol, regardless of the brand/model of the brace, or whether it has a brace at all. The order you remove the upper and stock also isn't important; what's important is that the stock isn't attached at the same time as a less than 16" barrel.

However, and this is very important, if you take the upper off (even for cleaning) and the stock is on the lower, it's now a rifle and you can never convert it back to its pistol state. If you put the pistol upper on it at that point, it's now consider an illegal SBR. Total rubbish; and you're directly contradicting yourself again. How on earth did you come up with this stuff? If just the act of putting a stock on a lower makes a rifle and that forever prohibits going back to pistol configuration, how do you imagine you could convert back and forth with an SBA4? What you're saying is not only completely wrong, it makes absolutely no sense. Without being attached to a barreled upper, the stock itself has no bearing whatsoever on the classification of a lower. The only way you're going to be creating an illegal SBR in the above scenario would be if you attached a less than 16" upper to the lower while the stock is attached.

For the love of all that's holy, if you don't have the slightest clue what the rules are, don't attempt to write authoritative posts advising people on the rules you clearly don't understand.

Pistol brace:

Thank you for posting these corrections. The misinformation on this topic is still rampant in the gun community.

For anyone interested, the lawful ability to change a pistol to a rifle and back to a pistol again was affirmed in the case: United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Co.

https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

"Held  further,  a  firearm,  as  defined  by  26  U.S.C.  5845(a)(3)  and  (a)(4),  is  not  made when  a  pistol  is  attached  to  a  part  or  parts  designed  to  convert  the  pistol  into  a  rifle  with  a barrel  of  16  inches  or  more  in  length,  and  the  parts  are  later  unassembled  in  a  configuration not  regulated  under  the  NFA  (e.g.,  as  a  pistol). "

Besides the SB brace, both Tailhook mod 1 & mod 2 braces have approval letters, as well as the KAK blade.

If anyone seriously wants to submit a brace for approval to the ATF, be aware that now you have to submit the firearm as well.

Seems like you’d spend more $$$ on shipping than what a commercial brace costs.