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Posted: 7/28/2026 9:41:56 AM EDT
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I looked around and did not see any current info about which brands of M193 are true to spec and good to go, vs brands that fall short. The latest info I found is a few years old. Is there an updated thread / post I am missing? While I have some better SHTF ammo put away, I like to keep some M193 around as well and have dipped into my stash a bit and figured I should restock. Before I drop money on a case I figured I would ask to see what brands are closest to spec. |
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Fairly current article https://tattedtacticals.com/m193-ammo-guide/ Would think there should some Privi and IMI on that list. |
| PMC is good, Federal is good, Winchester is probably okay i personally dont like the Herters options though. |
What it boils down to is that they fear an effective resistance to their power: So, Left in power=Guns bad, mmmmkay...?, Right in power=Guns good!-thskirk
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I try not to stray from IMI, but it’s gotten so expensive I’m buying PMC lately. Though current IMI and PMC are nurfed for velocity, I prefer to avoid Lake City, Federal and Winchester unless it was either that or nothing… It’s all likely rejected lots and it’s usually less accurate (especially the Winchester). The old Q3131A made by IMI for Winchester was great M193 when it was available back in 2003/2004. And it was only $2.79 for 20 rounds. 🤯 |
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Originally Posted By 556Cliff: I try not to stray from IMI, but it’s gotten so expensive I’m buying PMC lately. Though current IMI and PMC are nurfed for velocity, I prefer to avoid Lake City, Federal and Winchester unless it was either that or nothing… It’s all likely rejected lots and it’s usually less accurate (especially the Winchester). The old Q3131A made by IMI for Winchester was great M193 when it was available back in 2003/2004. And it was only $2.79 for 20 rounds. 🤯 I miss that stuff. I still have about 300 rds of this from a deal I found at Galyan's before Dick's took over. Walked in and found an isle end cap with Q3131A red tagged at $0.88 a box of 20. I grabbed a cart and bought it all. I got 1600 rds for just under $80 
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Originally Posted By onesureshot: I miss that stuff. I still have about 300 rds of this from a deal I found at Galyan's before Dick's took over. Walked in and found an isle end cap with Q3131A red tagged at $0.88 a box of 20. I grabbed a cart and bought it all. I got 1600 rds for just under $80 Originally Posted By onesureshot: Originally Posted By 556Cliff: I try not to stray from IMI, but it’s gotten so expensive I’m buying PMC lately. Though current IMI and PMC are nurfed for velocity, I prefer to avoid Lake City, Federal and Winchester unless it was either that or nothing… It’s all likely rejected lots and it’s usually less accurate (especially the Winchester). The old Q3131A made by IMI for Winchester was great M193 when it was available back in 2003/2004. And it was only $2.79 for 20 rounds. 🤯 I miss that stuff. I still have about 300 rds of this from a deal I found at Galyan's before Dick's took over. Walked in and found an isle end cap with Q3131A red tagged at $0.88 a box of 20. I grabbed a cart and bought it all. I got 1600 rds for just under $80  $0.88!If I had only known how expensive ammo would get here down the road I would have made sure to buy all of it every time I saw it… Even at the $2.79 price I was getting it for. |
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We did a thorough evaluation of S&B 5.56 around 20 yrs ago. Their M193 chrono'ed just under 3200 fps from a 20" A2 Bushmaster barrel and held under 1 MOA out to 300m. Very clean, very consistent ammo. We also tested their SS109 as well. Right at 3000 fps, just over 1 moa at 300m. The same ammo out of a 16" Superlight pencil barrel shot better than anything we used up to that time in that particular carbine. Approx. 3000 fps with M193, 1.5 MOA at 100m with some vertical stringing. Not surprising with a pencil barrel. As a group, we all were quite impressed given that S&B ammo was not premium priced ammo at the time. I personally have a quantity set aside ever since. IMI, PPU, and Igman M193 all were decently accurate too. Never tested PMC, or US brands besides Winchester. I remember when you could buy Q3131a for $100/1000... |
Another old guy
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: PPU, IMI, Winchester/Lake City are the few brands who meet the 3,167 fps velocity spec + some depending on the brand. Many others I've tested over the last 10+ yrs fall short. Is current IMI really meeting the spec? Last I heard is that any IMI made after 2016 was nurfed after a bunch of people complaining about popped primers. I hope it’s not nerfed, as it is still my favorite despite believing it’s not up to spec. 
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Originally Posted By 556Cliff: Is current IMI really meeting the spec? Last I heard is that any IMI made after 2016 was nurfed after a bunch of people complaining about popped primers. I hope it's not nerfed, as it is still my favorite despite believing it's not up to spec. |
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Originally Posted By urbanredneck: Fairly current article https://tattedtacticals.com/m193-ammo-guide/ Would think there should some Privi and IMI on that list. That link is not exactly right. I quit skimming it after seeing this: Attached File M193 most certainly owns a IIIA vest. |
If you are putting a lot of effort into arguing with me, you are probably really just wasting your time, sorry.
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Originally Posted By urbanredneck: Fairly current article https://tattedtacticals.com/m193-ammo-guide/ Would think there should some Privi and IMI on that list. That is a poorly written summary. They seem to have simply data mined or used factory data to collect and present. Some of what they say is reasonable but the actual data is missing. Use posts like Buffman presents. |
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Originally Posted By zentradi: That link is not exactly right. I quit skimming it after seeing this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14200/uhhhh_jpg-3804292.JPG M193 most certainly owns a IIIA vest. Penetrating soft body armor and actual AP spec ammo are two different things. The statement is factual. |
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Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911: Penetrating soft body armor and actual AP spec ammo are two different things. The statement is factual. Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911: Originally Posted By zentradi: That link is not exactly right. I quit skimming it after seeing this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14200/uhhhh_jpg-3804292.JPG M193 most certainly owns a IIIA vest. Penetrating soft body armor and actual AP spec ammo are two different things. The statement is factual. And yet the FAQ explicitly states that not only is M193 not AP (which is true), it goes on to state that it won't defeat "modern" armor rated IIIA or above (which is false). |
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Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b: And yet the FAQ explicitly states that not only is M193 not AP (which is true), it goes on to state that it won't defeat "modern" armor rated IIIA or above (which is false). Ah, you're right. I read it too quickly. I am fairly certain IIIA is pistol rated only, although I am no expert. Its not AP but I dont think it needs to be to overcome IIIA I'm with you now |
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Originally Posted By BensAssociator: Anyone have any recent data on the Magtech m193? I’ve had good luck with the now discontinued 77grn load but I wonder how the m193 performs. I have a fair amount of this CBC load also. It certainly shoots well but I do not have a chrono. |
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Originally Posted By SSG-69: I have a fair amount of this CBC load also. It certainly shoots well but I do not have a chrono. Originally Posted By SSG-69: Originally Posted By BensAssociator: Anyone have any recent data on the Magtech m193? I've had good luck with the now discontinued 77grn load but I wonder how the m193 performs. I have a fair amount of this CBC load also. It certainly shoots well but I do not have a chrono. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRX2lrsMX_w |
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Originally Posted By bnz42: Several brands, including Fiocchi, Federal Frontier, Winchester, PMC, and CBC Magtech M193, were tested here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRX2lrsMX_w Thanks for the video link, good info. I like his clear, concise and quick video style / format |
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Originally Posted By 556Cliff: I try not to stray from IMI, but it’s gotten so expensive I’m buying PMC lately. Though current IMI and PMC are nurfed for velocity, I prefer to avoid Lake City, Federal and Winchester unless it was either that or nothing… It’s all likely rejected lots and it’s usually less accurate (especially the Winchester). The old Q3131A made by IMI for Winchester was great M193 when it was available back in 2003/2004. And it was only $2.79 for 20 rounds. 🤯 The federal m193 is not rejected lots, they make an entire line for direct to sale m193 loads, ae193. The the 193L load is particularly consistent currently. |
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I've shot basically nothing but Hornady Frontier for about the last year just because it's generally the cheapest in my area. I don't think I've had a single failure of any kind in probably 2kish rounds. I hear bad things about past versions of it I love the 5.56 55. |
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Originally Posted By 308223: I roll my own in Lake City brass for the most part. I have an entire case of IMI and a case of Guat. I essentially use reloads to preserve my factory stuff. Just shot a bunch of M193 spec reloads to test my AZ Regulator. It all worked.The PMC stuff also works well. |
Preferred pronoun: MARINE
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Originally Posted By jayt320: I've shot basically nothing but Hornady Frontier for about the last year just because it's generally the cheapest in my area. I don't think I've had a single failure of any kind in probably 2kish rounds. I hear bad things about past versions of it I love the 5.56 55. I came here to warn others of the Frontier M193 - it is the only one mentioned in this thread I would avoid. But I am glad you are having good luck with it. |
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Originally Posted By Dark_zero_x: The federal m193 is not rejected lots, they make an entire line for direct to sale m193 loads, ae193. The the 193L load is particularly consistent currently. Originally Posted By Dark_zero_x: Originally Posted By 556Cliff: I try not to stray from IMI, but it’s gotten so expensive I’m buying PMC lately. Though current IMI and PMC are nurfed for velocity, I prefer to avoid Lake City, Federal and Winchester unless it was either that or nothing… It’s all likely rejected lots and it’s usually less accurate (especially the Winchester). The old Q3131A made by IMI for Winchester was great M193 when it was available back in 2003/2004. And it was only $2.79 for 20 rounds. 🤯 The federal m193 is not rejected lots, they make an entire line for direct to sale m193 loads, ae193. The the 193L load is particularly consistent currently. That's good to hear, I think it was quite a few years ago that it was confusing... No one was really sure if Federal/LC M193 was the real thing, rejects or floor sweepings. |
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Originally Posted By TheKurnal: I came here to warn others of the Frontier M193 - it is the only one mentioned in this thread I would avoid. But I am glad you are having good luck with it. Yeah man you aren't the first person I've heard say that but it also seems like most people point to some issue from very early batches blowing up people's guns. |
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Originally Posted By 556Cliff: The old Q3131A made by IMI for Winchester was great M193 when it was available back in 2003/2004. And it was only $2.79 for 20 rounds. 🤯 I remember it well and stacked it so deep and cheap I still have cases of it today, lol. Buying ammo was like buying groceries in those days. Every week. Glad I did too. |
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Originally Posted By jayt320: Yeah man you aren't the first person I've heard say that but it also seems like most people point to some issue from very early batches blowing up people's guns. This seems like good advice from back in 2021... Posted: 5/12/2021 11:13:40 AM PDT [#7] while the number of kabooms has recently decreased, that can likely be attributed to the fact that people are shooting much, much less now than they were in 2018-2020. Same with the majority of kabooms being the 55gr, people shot 10x as much of the 55fmj and they did the 75gr, so obviously most kabooms were with the 55, though we did see some with the 75 and 68gr. Kabooms happened in both 223 and 556. I personally void frontier, but f you bought it I'd probably just shoot it, or save to for the future. If I was desperate id pull the components and reload the primed brass using the bullets and my own powder. The 75gr amoo uses the T2 bullet, which is a pretty good defensive and mid range match bullet. I say keep it, and shoot it if you have to. Your chances of a kaboom are low, and it seems that many of the frontier issues have been resolved, or at least lessened. I will advise you tho, not to shoot it in any collectibles or transferable mg's just because the chance, although slight, is higher than normal for a kaboom |
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And I wouldn't call 2019 "very early batches.." Posted: 10/11/2019 12:41:49 PM PDT With all the Hornady Frontier threads and issues, I set out to compile all that information in one location. Posted a partial list of my findings in another thread. Finally catalogued all my collected data, and figured I'd put it in a new, topic specific thread. So, if anyone has examples to add to the list, or notices data I've missed, let me know. Hoping to keep this as a single reference to make things easier on anyone who's interested in this topic. Note: New issues added to the list after the original thread date are called out in bold/italics Known Issues with Links Hornady Frontier Over Pressure: 62 gr SP, pressure signs and blown primers, Lot #SMQ18C844-002 Witnessed a Kaboom Today: 55 gr FMJ, kaboom and blown primers, Lot #SMQ18C844-003 My AR exploded in my face today: 62 gr BTHP, kaboom and potential jackets rupturing, Lot #SMQ18C847-001 Another Kaboom with Frontier 5.56 Ammo: 55 gr FMJ, kaboom with blown case, Lot #SMQ18C867-008 Hornady Frontier Blown Primers and Jacket Rupture: 55 gr M193, blown primers and potential ruptured jackets resulting in suppressor strikes, Lot # SMQ18C867-007 (Added 10/26) Frontier 55gr boom & damaged extractor: 55 gr FMJ, blown case and damaged extractor; also had a 2nd poster in the thread discuss their friend having bulged cases, Lot # unknown Hornady Frontier Possibly Loaded Hotter: Assuming 55 gr (poster said .223), pressure signs (blown primers, split cases, ejector smear), Lot # unknown 14.5 Mod 2 and Hornady 75 Frontier Blown Primers: 75 gr BTHP, blown primers in multiple rifles, Lot # unknown Hornady Frontier Hot Loads = weapon failure: 62 gr and 68 gr, blown primers in multiple rifles, Lot # unknown Catastrophic Malfunction?: Frontier Ammo (no info on loading), kaboom, Lot # unknown Academy Sports Reviews: 55 gr FMJ, blown primers and blown cases, Lot # unknown Bass Pro/Cabelas Reviews: 62 gr FMJ, Kaboom and damaged extractor from case separation, plus blown primers, Lot # unknown Cheaper than Dirt Reviews: 68 gr BTHP, blown primers in multiple rifles, Lot # unknown I've also compiled the above into a spreadsheet. An image of which will have to suffice for now... I'm particularly interested in this topic, as I purchased a bunch of the Frontier ammo; wanting to do accuracy testing. It's pretty economical, and their ammo usually is pretty solid. Then, these threads about issues started popping up. So, I've not fired any of the ammo I bought. Just waiting a while for all of this to play out. Kind of glad I haven't, as the 62 gr SP I have is the same Lot # as one of the above linked threads. Below are the lots/loading I have on-hand that I'd hoped to test. Think I have 3-4 boxes of each. If I ever do shoot the stuff, I'll log and share my findings. Hope this helps anyone also trying to follow the Frontier saga! |
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Originally Posted By TheKurnal: Hope this helps anyone also trying to follow the Frontier saga! All lots beginning with SMQ were loaded at Lake City AAP while under contract with Orbital ATK/Vista. Hornady took a lot of heat online while their only hand in it was supplying the bullets and marketing. Given the reputation of those initial SMQ lots, I'd really be curious what are conditions like at LCAAP. |
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Originally Posted By TGH456E: @TheKurnal Where did your qoute come from and who posted it? What I mean is you cut/pasted that list- Who created it? And I assume it's from this site? Thanks! @TGH456E The info I posted above was from an archived thread so all the user names have been removed, and I can’t remember who posted that. Here is the archived thread…. https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-Official-Hornady-Frontier-Kabooms-Issues-Info-and-Data-Thread-List-Updated-10-26-/16-744687/? |
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Originally Posted By TheKurnal: @TGH456E The info I posted above was from an archived thread so all the user names have been removed, and I can’t remember who posted that. Here is the archived thread…. https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-Official-Hornady-Frontier-Kabooms-Issues-Info-and-Data-Thread-List-Updated-10-26-/16-744687/? Thank You! I figured it was here. I guess I missed that post/thread. |
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Originally Posted By TheKurnal: I came here to warn others of the Frontier M193 - it is the only one mentioned in this thread I would avoid. But I am glad you are having good luck with it. Originally Posted By TheKurnal: Originally Posted By jayt320: I've shot basically nothing but Hornady Frontier for about the last year just because it's generally the cheapest in my area. I don't think I've had a single failure of any kind in probably 2kish rounds. I hear bad things about past versions of it I love the 5.56 55. I came here to warn others of the Frontier M193 - it is the only one mentioned in this thread I would avoid. But I am glad you are having good luck with it. After the fiascos and kabooms, I swore off any 5.56/.223 that started with “Fr” (Frontier and Freedom). |
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Originally Posted By TheKurnal: I came here to warn others of the Frontier M193 - it is the only one mentioned in this thread I would avoid. But I am glad you are having good luck with it. I wonder if there's a difference in tolerance for the round between 5.56 and 2.23 barrels/chambers? |
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