I was trying to see is there a 410 pistol lower out there? If so who has them? I think it would make a nice snake gun. Thanks!

Hacksaw and a file.

But if you go shorter than 18-inches the ATF may not be happy with you.  Smooth bore pistols are a no-no, at least here in the states.

Consider the Shockwave.  You might take that route.

I haven't measured an AR pistol to see how short you could run the barrel, but with the right OAL it could be a firearm, not a shotgun or pistol.

Still bulky, but I doubt if the snakes will complain.

It would have to have a 12.5" barrel with a standard fixed pistol or carbine receiver extension to get over 26" oal. I wonder if it would have to be a lower that had a "firearm" as a first build or if it could be just a regular pistol lower. I wonder because once you have a pistol if you get over 26" oal it becomes a firearm. Would the same apply if you slapped a shotgun upper on your pistol lower and the gun was over 26" oal?

tagging this

I don't know where you would get the appropriate barrel-extension/trunion to match up with a AR-410 bolt to do this.

But, you could have a custom barrel made with 45-cal rifling and a combo gun 45-LC/410-Bore chamber like used in the Judge revolvers.

Then you could have a proper pistol length barrel in the 7.5" length or so and not have to tax stamp it and not have to have a 26+ OAL and it would be a US legal simple handgun.

Would be really cool if you could get it to run reliably with both cartridges possibly with separate mags to feed the shorter 45-LC correctly into the chamber.

Would be a cool project if you could get it to work.

My thought would be to cut this down but I would want the smooth bore as opposed to the rifled one.

Centerfire Systems was selling 410 uppers...I have one.  It's a fun gun...that's not real good for anything... a bit too light for home defense, hard to shoot trap due to the hand guard/sighing/reference points.   Fun to do mag dumps on cans and stuff like that though...

That thing uses a concentric ring gas piston around the barrel.  Shortest you could cut it down would be just forward of that ring groove a little over a third of the way down the barrel that holds the front of the spring collar attachment due to mechanical reasons and to have enough gas dwell time to work it probably couldn't be cut down shorter then about 10" barrel or so (you need enough barrel length after the gas port to have enough dwell time).

And with a smooth bore you would have to with maintain a 26"+ OAL or register and $200 tax stamp it as a SBS.

So that might work to cut down to 12.5" barrel as suggested by another poster above and maintain 26"+ OAL.  Might or might not need to open it's gas port.

Using a 45-cal rifled bore and a 45-LC/410-Bore combo gun chamber cut is how you get away with a 410 shotgun pistol with short barrel and less then 26" OAL without having to register and $200 tax stamp as a SBS.  Thus why I suggested it.

I was thinking a DI build with the gas port just barely in front of the case mouth with a short gas tube and like a 7.5" barrel.  If for example the gas port was located at 2.625" of that barrel length with a 2.5" chamber and 2.5" length 410 shells that would give nearly 5" of dwell time with which a big 1/8" diameter gas port, lightened carrier and standard or light weight buffer it just might be enough to work.

I know what you are saying but I want the smooth.bore and don't really have a problem with the 26" length. Shorter would be cooler but I don't think the patterns would be very good with the rifling.

Got yah, but I was thinking with a custom barrel you could have the rifling cut with a really slow 1-in-66 muzzleloader round ball twist rate.  The slower the rifling twist rate the less it "donuts" the pattern.

But if having the shorter length under 26" OAL doesn't matter to you then that does give you a true smooth bore.

As a bonus it isn't that hard to cut down a shotgun barrel.  Hopefully you won't have to open up the gas port.

If you can't/won't cut it down yourself.  You might have some trouble finding a gun smith willing to do it.  Not all of them are familiar with the "non-NFA other firearm" option with a 26"+ OAL and a barrel under 18" and that it is legal.  Many of them get a little "gun shy" about cutting a smooth bore shotgun barrel shorter then 18"

And of course, as always assemble with long barrel on non-shoulder-stocked lower and measure multiple times from the back of the buffer tube (NOT the back of the brace if any! Only the actual buffer tube counts) and triple check your over 26" measurement before you cut.

Measure multiple times cut once!

My only thought is that a 410 round is 2.25-2.75" long unfired, add another 1/4" fired (crimp - hte length you see on a barrel/box of shells is the fired length)

Which means I don't think it would fit in a 556 mag well..... but someone above says he/she had an upper for it from some company....

I would cut it myself. I agree shotguns are pretty easy. I recently cut down an old Winchester 37 clone I have.

There are quite a few companies making Ar15 .410 uppers.

Almost correct.  Once you have a pistol over 26" OAL and add a VFG it magically becomes a "firearm".  A pistol can be any length.

I even knew that. Lol. Just forgot to type it. Thanks for correcting it for future reference.

All the AR-410 uppers I have ever seen are built for 2.5" shells only no 3" shells.  Shells start out 2.25" long crimped and fit in the magazine accordingly.  oversized ejection port on the upper ensures enough room to toss out the 2.5" long fired shell.  One upper I have seen in person used an AR-10 sized ejection port cutout and port door with the side notch for the port door snap down in the bolt carrier machined just slightly further back to match up with the larger port door.  Others, that I have not seen in person but seen pics & vids of on the net don't use a port door with a non-standard ejection port size.  Others I have seen pics & vids of on the net have a port door but I can't quite tell if it's an AR-15 or AR-10 or some proprietary port door setup.

what does ballistics by the inch think about this idea?

i just had centerfire delive me a 410 upper, not sure what barrel thread pattern is, or velocity on a short barrel. those arethe things slowing me up...

Don't think BBTI has run #s on the .410.

Don't know the exact BBI but Federal ammunition company sells some of their #4 shot 410 loads both in a standard box with a printed muzzle velocity of 1200-fps  and in another box as judge handgun snake loads with a muzzle velocity of 750-fps printed on the box.

What the OP of this thread is considering would have a longer barrel then a judge revolver and would have no cylinder gap.  So the muzzle velocity should be somewhere in-between those numbers.

At least narrows the possibilities down a little.

What's better then the judge 410/45LC one that can hold 10+ rounds be even better if it could shoot full power 45LC! Think of the damage a full load 45LC in a semi-autos AR-15 style pistol or rifle would do!

Also having a semi-auto 410 that would be a pistol would be an awesome snake gun! Muscle memory and the ability to just swap a mag and go from snake rounds to rounds that can take down a bear! All in a pistol!

If I were going this route, I would just build a .450 Bushmaster and load some rounds with shot capsules. To me the value in this idea is as a smooth bore, compact semi auto shotgun.

It's called a TAURUS JUDGE .410/45lc Not an upper but FUN!

kinda like this! but sclaed down

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/19/gun-review-intrepid-tactical-solutions-ras-12-shotgun/

Why can't use Ruger only 45LC rounds in it?






Cost to me would be the biggest set back also after reading a few posts the capsules have about an 80% reliability rate as they crack on the rifling. This is only what I read when I looked it up.

Also I like to have a rifle that uses the same caliber as my wheel gun. I'm going to carry a 45 LC it has been proven to take all North America game with less pressure then the 44 mag.

Since I already cast and reload and have bought custom casting dies for the 452. caliber and have been wanting to do a 360 gr hard cast at about 1,100 fps out of a 4 .5 Ruger Blackhawk or 1,495 fps out of a 16.5 inch barrel. I'd save that round for rifle don't think it will be fun in a wheel gun.

Buy a 255 gr hard cast 1450fps - 1191 ft./lbs. - 7.5" bbl. Is not bad also! The little piggy is going to feel that when it gets hit!