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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
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Posted: 10/22/2020 10:04:09 PM EDT
Short Version: firing pin not consistently setting of rounds.

Went shooting today.  Ran a new build without issue.  

Changed to a second rifle.  This one has new Larue Extractor Kit, new buffer spring.  Fired this rifle without issue twice in the last two months.  Loaded this. weapon, pulled the trigger, hammer fell but no boom.  Multiple attempts.  Hammer falls.  No bang.

Switched bolt from the first rifle to the second rifle.  Same ammo.  Same magazine.  With the new bolt this time rifle ran fine.  When I cycle the action the round is on the bolt face.

Hammer spring is correctly installed.  But it is 20+ years old.  Olympic Arms.

I have not run thousands of rounds through this rifle.

Any ideas?  New firing pin?  New bolt carrier group?


UPDATE 1:

Went to clean the chamber again just to see if there was some grit inside.  While cleaning, the gas tube stared moving.  Further inspection revealed the roll-pin the holds the gas tube in came out.  Don't know how that happened, never heard of that happening before, but its gone.

UPDATE 2:

Fixed the gas tube.  Test fired again.  Chambered the first round from the mag.  Brass check, hit the fwd assist. Pulled the trigger  and no bang.

Cleared the weapon. Loaded the first round into the chamber by hand, re-inserted the magazine.  Pull the trigger and Bang.  Finished out the mag with no feeding issues.


UPDATE 3:

Replaced the bolt and gas tube completely.  Test fired it a few weeks ago.  With both the old bolt and new bolt:  No issues.

Took it to the range Saturday.  First magazine:  loaded and made ready, did a brass check, good to go.  Aimed it and pulled the trigger... clunk, no bang.

Performed immediate action, pulled the trigger again.  Bang.  Fired out the whole magazine with no issues.  Two more magazines... no issues.  That first round always seems to be the issue.

Maybe during the brass check I'm messing something up?  Unseating the round?  Its always the first round and always after a brass check.

I'm about to strip the whole weapon down to its base components and start over.



Link Posted: 10/22/2020 10:10:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Reloads?

I’ve seen this happen with reloads that prevents the BCG going fully into battery.

If the round is just kissing the lands, it will let the hammer fall, but the bolt won’t be fully locked, and thus not fully back - this prevents the firing pin from reaching the primer.
Link Posted: 10/22/2020 10:26:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Not reloads.  Factory ammo.  Winchester I think.

Fired rounds from the same case earlier out of two other weapons without issue.

Link Posted: 10/22/2020 10:42:22 PM EDT
[#3]
How’s the primer look on the click no bang rounds?
Link Posted: 10/22/2020 10:56:58 PM EDT
[#4]
tiny indent on the primer.
Link Posted: 10/22/2020 11:02:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
tiny indent on the primer.
View Quote


Plot thickens.

Tiny indent is perfectly normal for the AR15 platform, as the FP is free floating.

But if it can hit the primer under its own inertia...then no reason a hammer shouldn’t thwack it real good.
Link Posted: 10/22/2020 11:11:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Photos available of what's working and what's not working?
Link Posted: 10/23/2020 2:14:45 AM EDT
[#7]
I’m sure you’ve already checked, but is there any debris in the firing pin channel? I had this happen to me before, all that was needed was a cleaning since there was manufacturing grease in there.
Link Posted: 10/23/2020 11:34:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Cleaned it all out again, but it wasn't gunked up.

Will try and test fire it again this weekend with different firing pins.
Link Posted: 10/23/2020 11:44:14 AM EDT
[#9]
I don't think you completed the experiment.
What I read:

Rifle 1: Fails to fire
Rifle 2: Works.

Move bolt carrier from rifle 1 to rifle 2 - work.

What you didn't do was move the bolt carrier from rifle 2 into rifle 1 to see what happens.

--------------

It is *probably* the trigger/hammer - maybe a weak hammer spring.
But it could also be something else, like the bolt not going completely into battery, or a combination of things.
Link Posted: 10/23/2020 12:01:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Can you pull the firing pins from both BCGs and see if there's any variation in length? Also any issues with the firing pin retainer in the non-working carrier?
Link Posted: 10/23/2020 1:01:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 10/23/2020 1:59:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Can you pull the firing pins from both BCGs and see if there's any variation in length? Also any issues with the firing pin retainer in the non-working carrier?
View Quote


Both firing pins are the same length (eye-ball calibration.  I don't have a micrometer.)  I check them against two other pins to be sure.

Firing pin retaining pin is good in the carrier.

Link Posted: 10/23/2020 2:02:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

So could be ammo, or could be the Larue Extractor Kit, since it adding so much tension to the extractor, the extractor is not able to spring outwards to climb over the case rim right before the bolt  starts to cam close, and preventing complete lock up.

View Quote



If it was/is the Larue Extracor kit, would there be issues cycling the action manually?    I cycled through half a mag manually just now with no feeding, extracting, ejecting issues.

I don't think this makes any difference, but the bolt carrier is one of the old "Civilian" bolt carriers with a small cut-out.
Link Posted: 10/23/2020 2:03:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


What you didn't do was move the bolt carrier from rifle 2 into rifle 1 to see what happens.

--------------

View Quote


Good point.
Link Posted: 11/13/2020 8:37:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Further, pull the “bad” bolt carrier group and push the bolt fully in. Press on the firing pin from the bolt carrier to see how much protrusion you have from the bolt face. Do the same on a known working carrier for direct comparison.

Live fire it by swapping a known functional bolt carrier. Does it function? If yes, problem lies with the bolt carrier group.

Put the “bad” carrier group in a known functioning AR. If the problem persists, it eliminates your upper/lower and the problem is with the “bad” bolt carrier group.

You can then swap bolts and firing pins to determine if the problem lies with the carrier itself. This will also indicate of the issue is with the extractor kit.

I’d probably put Sharpie on the end of the firing pin that makes contact with the hammer and see if the hammer is hitting the firing pin reliably.
Link Posted: 11/14/2020 12:33:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Check for pin protrusion. Should be around 0.035" You have the firing pin on the right side of the firing pin retainer? Don't laugh, seen it.
Link Posted: 11/22/2020 10:16:05 PM EDT
[#17]
1 of the above posts had a good tip that OP may have overlooked

Since the gas block was loose and after installing the pin, the rifle cycled 100% a couple of times

Go back and remove the bolt from carrier. Reinstall bare BC and see that the carrier key interfaces 100% with the gas tube.

If carrier key is getting hung up on the gas tube... well.

I would spend some more time there
Link Posted: 11/25/2020 6:16:56 PM EDT
[#18]
TLDR: Hammer spring installed correctly- IE not backwards. I just had this issue. YMMV.
Link Posted: 12/7/2020 8:11:40 AM EDT
[#19]
Update 3 above.  Still not working 100%.


Cycled a mag through the questionable weapon by hand this morning.  It was difficult.  Action was tight.  Had to wrap a cord around the charging handle several times to get enough leverage to cycle the aciton

Tried the same thing with a known good AR and no issue.  Swapped out the questionable upper with another one and the action cycled easier by hand.

Could my barrel be over/under torqued?  Head space off?
Link Posted: 12/7/2020 10:37:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Sounds like a weak hammer spring, did you try another lower? I’d get a known reliable rifle and switch parts until I found the malfunction. I did have a malfunction caused by a half moon colt carrier that hung up on a milspec hammer but it was so long ago I don’t recall the specifics. Might look at that interface.
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 6:15:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Thanks.

Does the hammer spring weaken over time?  It is installed correctly but it is a 20 year old spring.

Link Posted: 12/9/2020 7:14:23 AM EDT
[#22]
They can, depends on the spring and the condition it was stored, as in cocked or not. I would say In most cases it would be unlikely to weaken that much as in the spring would have to be low quality or defective in the first place, it might have also been a reduced power spring if this is a used gun .

Find or borrow another rifle and switch the uppers to eliminate issues in the lower and work from there.
Link Posted: 12/14/2020 9:17:05 AM EDT
[#23]
Stop doing the brass check and see if it works. If that's the case, you've found your problem, or at least found what part of the cycle is introducing the issue. It's REALLY easy for an AR to not go fully back into battery and the forward assist isn't meant to be a replacement for a proper bolt drop. If you need the FA you would be practically pounding on it a few times, not a gentle push. It's quite possible that the upper/bcg combo doesn't play nice with your usual routine and you're not actually seating the bolt after the check.
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