Let me start this post by stating EVERYONE messes up eventually. Its all about how you take care of that one in a million goof that matters, and, well, they don't.



These are the pictures I sent, these are the groups their barrel produced




First reply








This last email was flat out ignored, it was sent 5/3 and its 5/8 with no reply. Here is the picture of the new group I shot with the same upper, muzzle device, optic, bolt carrier, lower+buffer assembly, rail, barrel nut, torque spec, shooter, ammo, range (25y), sunny 70 deg calm weather and same bench rest shooting with just one thing changed. Swapped the Triarc barrel out for a Spikes Lightweight 14.5 mid length





I'm just forwarding my experience. Why roll the dice on a company that will arrogantly tell you their products don't fail and it is your ammo, then pivot to digging in their heels to examine the entire upper receiver (at the customers expense) so they can pass the blame to one of those parts when you can buy from so many companies that just stand behind their product? I didn't Karen them, I came to them with clear, concise and calm evidence of an issue and they opted to side step it and then ignore me entirely.

Take the following for what it is, it’s not a personal attack.

Regardless of your experience and shooting ability, companies have to assume you are a fudd that doesn’t know what he is doing. Rightfully so, as a vast majority of firearms owners and users are extremely ignorant (yes even cops, military, and dudes who have assembled dozens of ARs in moms basement).

They were right to recommend trying different ammo. They offered to diagnose the upper, you declined.


My recommendations:

Mail them the barrel anyways and send it on your dime. They will likely take care of you.

Next time you send an email, remember that less info is better. Try just answering their specific questions. The “Karen” definitely came out in the last email. Rarely is it a good idea to make demands or cross the line into unprofessionalism, which I got a sense of in your final email.

All my parts and abilities are good to go, as evidenced by the information I coherently conveyed along with photographic proof.

What a shit customer service mentality.

It was ignored because you are being unreasonable.

There was nothing unreasonable about wanting them to take their clearly defective product back for their own examination. You'll note in not one single email I sent did I demand a replacement/refund/gift cards/coupons/back patting, I wanted them to inspect it because it grouped minute of football at 25 yards. I replaced their part and only their part and got completely night and day results, and showed them. I'd love to hear how any of what my end of the exchange was is unreasonable.

That's no good, I had good experience with them a few years ago. I had bought one of their enhanced BCG's when they ditched all the Ronin stuff. I received the BCG and it was missing a screw for the gas key, I sent it back to them and by the time I checked the tracking info and called to make sure they received they had already sent me a new one. I will say recently they purged all their old accounts on the website so my old account got deleted which was lame because I had my mil discount set up with them.

It would have been reasonable to send them the assembly per their request.  

Did you conduct a DoE on the assembly?

The uppers been reassembled in identical fashion with one part changed, the Triarc barrel. I'm not interested in stripping the URX barrel nut or sending it to them so they can strip the URX barrel nut so they can go blame fishing on the ancillary parts when it is very obvious their barrel is not in spec. If I was unable to provide such evidence that all the critical parts around the barrel are functional I totally agree I might be a little unreasonable, but furthermore you do not need the entire receiver to test the barrel. This is a clear cut case of poor customer service chased with a clear cut case of fanboyism championing their decision to not care about its customer base.

In many industries, once you took a tool to it, the situation goes from being their fault to being your fault, by you breaking the warranty seal so to speak. Not saying it’s right or even how this company will handle the issue but it is a distinct possibility. Right to repair is a struggle, check out John Deere for others in the same boat.

I would not be eager to do you favors with the tone of your last response to them. Yes, they may have screwed up, but then you took matters into your own hands rather than giving them an opportunity to remedy. And now you’re unwilling to restore the product to the as-bought condition while still expecting free service. This is exacerbated by the fact you expect them to pay return shipping, which is not the norm on an allegation of defect.

I would wager that if you would have returned the upper as bought on your dime in keeping with convention, and as they originally requested, you would probably find perfectly acceptable customer service.

You should have sent them the complete upper as requested.  You were just too lazy to reassemble it.  I don't see anything wrong with their customer service.

@kx250ryder
Much of what you said is on point, however OP only bought the barrel and installed it himself. He didn’t buy a complete triarc upper.

@QPFDan
Chill with the fanboy talk, I don’t own any of their products. Also, that 25 yard group is a weird flex. We saw it the first time.
    (If your “good group” picture is of a 1in grid square target, then that is an 8moa group we are looking at. If thats true, you might want to pull that barrel also and send it to spikes tactical. Hopefully I’m wrong)

If I bought a complete Triarc receiver group I would agree here but I didn't. They sell barrels a la carte and offer a warranty on them, and then don't honor it when push comes to shove.

I missed this. In that case, I withdraw what I said above. While Triarc could test the upper as an assembly if the customer prefers this, they should also accept the stripped barrel back for testing since that was the as-bought condition.

I mean the following as equitably as possible but Triarc's initial request was not unreasonable. This is akin to chain of custody, at this point the barrel has been assembled, shot, and disassembled without any verification of skill involved.  The proof you provided is purely on the basis of your word, which to them is an unknown quantity. I'm not saying you're untrustworthy mind. They have no idea without the upper in hand if it was assembled correctly as you described or if it is grouping like the photos you provided. Regardless they should exercise better reading comprehension with the second email and offer to take a look at the barrel by itself though.

The only thing I will say is that there is a slight chance there is something going on with the entire upper when assembled that they may not be able to reproduce with the barrel alone assembled with different parts.  Could be anything, really, the muzzle threads, barrel extension diameter, tolerance issue with the bolt/barrel.  All things that may not present themselves with a different barrel or with your Triarc barrel assembled with different parts.

If they take the barrel back in all by itself and don’t find any issues with it, that leaves them in a situation of not being able to tell you what’s actually going on and you thinking they’re lying to get out from under a warranty claim.

The fact that you’re already coming at this thinking they’re going to damage your upper trying to blame something else combined with the tone of your emails leads me to believe that you’d be a difficult customer to work with, and I’d guess they’ve come to the same conclusion.  So…..good luck.  I don’t see their request for the complete upper as being unreasonable at all.

If I was using a more repeatable barrel nut it wouldn't have been a big deal to rebarrel it and send it to them to do mental gymnastics to place blame on anything but their barrel but I'm not. The URX is quite literally famous for having a 1 or 2 or even 0 use before failure barrel nut and I'll be damned if I'm going to keep pressing my luck with it just so they can have my entire upper for testing when they don't even actually need it AND I took the time to provide evidence of both competence and functionality

This is not the first time I've heard of a Triarc barrel shooting like shit.

That being said, I also vaguely remember gas block to rail interference with URX3.1 rails so you might want to ensure theres nothing touching. Good luck.

Completely cleared the block, wasn't even close.

Judging by the tone of OP's posts Triarc is in a tough spot.

OP doesn't have a spare rail and barrel nut? Build up with that and shoot another target. If it's the barrel, it will group the same. Then send it back to them

I don't know man, calling their customer service a joke, when they emailed you a couple times and asked for you to send in the upper so they can properly diagnose, and you didn't want to for your own reasons seems like a misleading title.

That was my thought as well order a GI barrel nut and shoot it barrel and gas tube. As well as shoot different weight bullet ammo. I know ammo is hard to come by these days but some barrels just don’t like ammo at speed, weight, bullet seating depth.

Not defending Triarc.  I have two of their full uppers and am pleased, but the 3rd I've been waiting on for 10 months, when they stated 10 weeks, is a joke.  They clearly cannot handle the surge.

That said...your "good" group is not good, just better than the utterly horrific group.  There should be one ragged hole at 25y, or close it.

Dax



If the second pic set is on a target with one inch squares, it represents a group of approximately 2+ inches in total spread. AT 25 YARDS.
Comparing that target to the previous targets, and using your hand as a reference, the first targets look to be around 3.5-4.0 inches or so. Easily within the variabilty of rifle and ammo generally speaking. TBH, I would expect a sub inch group at 25 yards with decent ammo and barrels and a good shooter. AT 25 YARDS.
From what I can see, the groups you present from both barrels could actually be an ammo issue. Your unwillingness to work with them, and instead work at them, is at least off-putting. And I say that from a position of having been a part owner in an AR dedicated shop, and having built literally thousands of ARs over my career. And not being willing to reassemble the upper with their barrel and try some different ammo strikes me as just being petulant.

And I will add that I am not familiar with the particular barrel nut/fore end you refer to but I have never seen any reference to that barrel nut having a HISTORY OF FAILURE (in literally THOUSANDS of threads I have read) after being used ONE TIME or TWO TIMES, as most manufacturers I have used for years and years actually recommend tightening, loosening, tightening, loosening, up to 2-3 times to better seat the barrel nut, thread, and barrel as you settle in on the final tightening stroke.
In all the years I've been involved with ARs there are 2-3 cases I remember where a rifle was not shooting up to par, per the customer. In EVERY ONE OF THOSE CASES, the problem was resolved by trying a few different brands/types of ammo.

Well except for the one case where a customer that bought an upper from me during our grand opening, and ended up winning a complete rifle in our raffle. Comes back a week later claiming that the upper would shoot minute of barn. Said ok, leave it with me. Shot it and showed him pics of the 100 yards groups two different shooters got. He took it home, but was back in a few days and said the charging handle had broken, and he'd just lost confidence in all our products. (Notice no return of the gun he won in the raffle) Gave him a refund, no biggie.
BUT when I took the upper back to the bench, it became immediately apparent that he had replaced the charging handle LATCH with an aftermarket part and had not seated the roll pin flush with the charging handle. THATS what caused the CH to break. CH could not go fully forward to its proper position and the bolt closing snapped the end of the CH off. He was fired by me as a customer for not being forthright with us.

NOT saying that is the case here. But I would want to see the entire assembly in order to fully diagnose whatever issues might be in play and determine if it might be a recurrent issue needing further attention. Your unwillingness to do that just strikes me as a little odd. And your (seemingly unfounded) implication that they would just use the opportunity "put the blame on your ammo as an excuse to not fix the issue" runs counter to all of the comments I have heard/seen about Triarc and their products.

Sounds like you got a bee up yer skirt, went on the offensive with them right out of the gate, and still no resolution.

ETA: If anyone can steer me to articles/threads about the particular barrel nut/forend in question, please do. Always looking to get more AR/Parts knowledge.

Like I said they should have offered to take a look at the barrel to determine any mechanical fault. I would personally view your details and photos as signs of good faith and integrity but I understand manufacturers wanting proof in hand. Which takes me back to square one again where I said they should have offered to look at the barrel.

Thats 3 groups of 3 walking in a zero, not a single instance of firing 9 shots to group it.

I don’t even know what we’re looking at here. Why are we testing accuracy with M193 ammo? Wouldn’t literally any other round be a better starting point before jumping to “barrel is defective”.

I’ve seen some straight up bad M193 batches roll out before. Like 8-10 moa plus stuff out of otherwise fantastic barrels.

This isn't an accuracy test. This isn't me complaining it isn't getting sub-moa at distance. This is throwing 8" groups at 25 yards off a bench.

The ammo out of the same case was confirmed good before and after I had this problem out of about 12 different rifles, including the very same rifle with just a barrel swap.

Lets drop the charade of ammo being the problem.

I'd call them.

If their CIO is answering RMA emails I'm guessing they don't have that big a team.

If you look down the bore is it even rifled? Pretty sure smoothbores group better than that.

I would've tried a different round at the very least before saying the barrel is defective. Grouping with the other barrel isn't great either even for a 25yd zero.

Honestly it is most likely an ammo issue.  Just because certain ammo shoots fine out of one barrel doesn’t mean it will from another.  You need to try at least three different types of ammunition through the barrel before ruling out ammunition which is normally the cause as compared the barrel unless you can visually see a damaged crown, burr at the gas port or buildup in the grooves.

I read this three times, 530 in the morning, just to make sure I get the facts straight....the OP is right...Looks like he has the variables covered.  If it was bought as a seperate barrel, then they need to evaluate the barrel as a seperate item.  As the barrels do have an accuracy rating as a stand alone item.  Can you imagine selling a barrel that says "accuracy depends on how it is assembled"  

I understand there are a number of things that can impact the grouping and assembly is one of them, but looks like the OP has the bases covered and used a procedure (repeated) to test another barrel that yielded better results withe same ammo.

I had a similiar experience with another well known Texas gun company, had issues with a high end rifle I bougth from them, would not cycle, sent to them and they said "we dont see an issue".  I was left on my own, I fixed it....

BUT, and a big BUT, I would try a different ammo....the exmaple I used above about having issues with a rifle, I was using the ammo they test with.  That was the first question they asked me: "what ammo are you using?" 168 grain FGMM sir....."OK"

Triarc should take the barrel back and evaluate it, as a stand alone item.  Just my opinion

I think a lot of folks in this thread are misunderstanding the second photo of his groups with the same ammo.

It’s 3 different 3-shot groups adjusting zero to center.

OP
Give them a phone call.  Both sides will be much better off actually talking as opposed to email.

Triarc is acting like a poor. DD, etc would probably exchange the barrel without even looking at it.

I am a dealer and manufacturer. I build custom uppers all the time. If I built an upper that a customer was unhappy with I would have them send it back and I would fix it. However, if they changed out the barrel, the most important part of the upper, then the main variable is out of the equation for diagnosis.

Honestly, I thought their response was fine. If I had a mechanic installed a faulty part, I would bring him back the entire car, not mail him back the part and tell him to mail me back a new part, they would think I was being unreasonable

Triarc isn’t DD they don’t have the resources to send exchange out a barrel that easily

I get the feeling from the OP that if he had mailed in just the barrel, Triarc inspected it, and it came back within spec, he’d still be complaining that their customer service was full of crap.

I’m going to give an unpopular opinion. Gun owners are a bunch of whiny cry babies when it comes to fixing their guns. There is no other industry that I’m aware of that is expected to give the level of customer service that gun owners demand.

In the computer industry, if a customer builds a custom PC from scratch and the VGC over heats, the manufacturer of that card is not just going to mail in a new one. They’re likely not going to ask you to mail in JUST that card. They’re going to want to look at the whole computer to make sure the cooling fan or tower wasn’t installed correctly or failed before offering a replacement.

If this were the hot rod industry, and a customer builds an engine from scratch and a piston gets a hole burned through it, the piston manufacturer isn’t going to just blindly mail a new set of pistons.

If this were the automobile industry and the engine drops a valve, the manufacturer isn’t going to say “mail is that valve and push rod and we’ll send you a new engine”. You’re going to have to take it to the dealership for inspection. And if they find that you installed an aftermarket camshaft in your new Camaro, they’re not going to replace it for free.

In the OP’s scenario, contrary to his belief, I don’t feel he has narrowed it down to just the barrel. He could have tried different ammo.  He could have placed the Triarc barrel in a different upper assembly and to help further isolate the problem to the barrel. He also didn’t say if he had torqued and loosened the URX barrel nut to properly seat the threads. We don’t know if he’s an armorer with formal education and credentials or if he’s just another weekend warrior who likes to tinker. The latter absolutely should not be given the same credibility as a certified armorer, regardless of the level of experience. Not to say a hobbyist can’t be more knowledgeable than a certified armorer, but a manufacturer should be under no obligation to assume that’s the case.

A new URX barrel nut is $35. https://www.rooftopdefense.com/product/knights-armament-urx-barrel-nut/. I would not hesitate to purchase a new barrel nut to send in an entire upper that a well known manufacturer is OFFERING to diagnose for me. Even if it comes back that the barrel isn’t the problem, at least now I would KNOW what the problem is. And if it does turn out that the barrel is the problem, then the manufacturer assembles my upper with a mew barrel and barrel nut and then verified the problem is fixed and I’m out $35. Well worth it in my opinion.

This is like building a hot rod, dropping a valve, and the valve manufacturer says “send in the whole car and we’ll diagnose your problem” and you bitching about them for not just blindly trusting your engine building skills and mailing you a new engine.

Sounds to me like the OP is butt hurt a manufacturer doesn’t blindly trust his diagnostic skills and is too scared to send in the whole upper to be, possibly, proven wrong.

Steel URX nut is >$50.

If there's that much drama over a bbl nut and its fragility,  I'd fo on an upgrade.

Send them the URG.

This is exactly right.

These kinds of posts crack me up...

ETA - There's so many posts in here already that are spot on. How can you expect Triarc to determine anything without the original configuration...

Triarc didn’t build the upper… He just purchased a barrel from them.

A 2 inch group at 25 yds, with an optic, off a bench rest?

That's like 8 MOA. Am I missing something here, because something ain't right.

That's comparable if marginally better than the 2nd target pic you posted.



Something tells me it isn't the barrel.

Ton of people on arfcom can't read. The pic you quoted there with my hand in it is the Triarc group. The group of 9 on the dope target with squares on it is 3 separate groups of 3 walking in an optic zero. Shoot 3, adjust optic, shoot 3, adjust, was money on the third group.

I don't know what I expected, of course this forum will want to bootlick companies that treat their customers like imbeciles.

I think you've been smelling your own farts man.

Their request seemed completely reasonable, and your response came off completely jerk-like.

Assuming you actually want an uninvolved person's opinion....

So no one really knows the quality of the build…

They offered to accommodate you and you refused the offer. If you build a rifle with a bunch of makers parts it's 100% reasonable for them to ask you to send the entire assembled upper in for evaluation. I'm not saying you are one of them but there are a lot of people out there that like to take advantage of companies warranties and replacement policies, the company needs to have a certain level of protection to prevent themselves from being taken.

The car builder and PC builders analogies above are spot on.

All this tells me is one barrel likes that ammo better than the other (barely).

Try different ammo. Preferably something known for accuracy like 69gr or 77gr SMK. Trying to use surplus M193 as a benchmark for accuracy isn’t the best idea.

That spikes group is terrible for 25 yards also, FWIW.  Might be something with the upper or optic after all.

Just because you said it didn’t make it so…

I know exactly the quality of his build.