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Posted: 11/4/2021 10:42:56 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 11/4/2021 10:43:53 AM EDT
[#2]
There is an extremely thorough write up floating around that I'll look for, but that guy really seemed to touch on everything and his conclusions largely reflect my own.
Eta: here it is. It's a really long and thorough article that addresses just about every aspect and comparison you could care about. https://www.breachbangclear.com/elcan-specterdr-analysis/ I have one. I like it. I got it used on the ee for $1300. I would likely hesitate at $1800 and go somewhere else at the $2k+ prices. |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 10:51:22 AM EDT
[#3]
I like mine, haven’t had any issues with it. Eye relief is better then a 4x ACOG but shorter then LPVO’s. I’m not a fan of the arms levers, mine didn’t seem to clamp very tight. I upgraded the levers to the MKII arms levers which cost $30 direct from arms. These are adjustable so you can get them a lot tighter.
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Posted: 11/4/2021 2:14:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Great piece of glass.
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Posted: 11/4/2021 2:28:16 PM EDT
[#5]
I like mine, but I like it a lot more @ 1300 off the EE than 1800+ new. If you know what you’re getting and how they compare against LPVOs, they’re solid optics wrt quality. Whether they’re for you or not is something only you can answer.
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Posted: 11/4/2021 2:40:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Great optic for what it is. Heavy.
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Posted: 11/4/2021 2:41:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great optic for what it is. Heavy. |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 2:52:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: heavy compared to what? Compared to most other traditional tube optics, it's actually lighter. However since it's so compact, it feels denser. It's hard to describe. It's heavier than my ACOG though. |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 3:01:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Compared to most other traditional tube optics, it's actually lighter. However since it's so compact, it feels denser. It's hard to describe. It's heavier than my ACOG though. |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 3:08:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great optic for what it is. Heavy. Here we go. |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 3:11:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here we go. hey, I like the thing, I've got one on my rifle right now |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 3:12:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Compared to most other traditional tube optics, it's actually lighter. However since it's so compact, it feels denser. It's hard to describe. It's heavier than my ACOG though. It's close... A good LPVO w/ a good mount will come close to the ELCAN 1.5-6x weight. Keep in mind the ELCAN has an integrated mount (the windage/elevation adjustments are actually for the sight itself and not an internal etched reticle). I like my 1.5-6x and switched the stock ARMS lever for MK 2 levers. The only issue I have is that it doesn't have any diopter adjustment. You can put a mini red-dot on top as a back up. There's an ELCAN plate for Docter sights (like Vortex Venom/Viper) or a different plate for RMR. The problem is that it's a chin weld and not as fast to use as say off-set red dot or off-set irons. The glass is crazy clear though with slightly warm tint. There's a vertical line that appears on the left and according to the manufacturer, it's normal depending on your eye/vision and shouldn't be apparent when you're shooting. It's part of the prism design. I bought one for my SCAR mainly just to have something different. My ACOG TA33 is super light (277 grams total w/ ADM B5 Titanium lever) but it's only 3x. A tube optic like a Trijicon Credo 3-9x (just as an example), IMHO, with a good mount is lighter, less expensive, and the Japanese glass is really good. With a MRAD reticle, it will be fine for 1000 yd targets. At 9x I can see super fine details at 1000 yd. If you're on a tight budget, I'd say skip the ELCAN. |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 3:14:41 PM EDT
[#13]
POI hasn’t been an issue since, like…2010. I haven’t found any verified reports of zero shift from models after that period, other than a factory lemon.
The factory ARMS levers are outdated but don’t actually seem to cause any issues besides inoptimal rail tension for some rifles. You can swap them out for the ARMS Mk2 levers if you have a spare $40 and 30 minutes. Ideally they’d come with them from the factory but you’d have to get a mount for a scope anyway, fitting the new ARMS levers is at least better than leveling a scope and torquing down rings. The external adjustment bars are quite beefy and well protected, and the optic utilizes springs for shock absorption. Elcan allegedly batch tests SpecterDRs with a simulated 2000G shock repeated 500 times. Personally I am not worried. What do you mean you “dislike short eye relief”, are you just setting the scope any random place on your rail and then trying to move your head to the optic? The proper way to do it would be to find your natural head position first, THEN mount your optic as far forward or backward as you need to in order to accommodate it. If this is done it will not matter what the optical eye relief distance is as long as it is enough to reach your eye with one of the available mounting positions. If you cannot fit your rear flip-up sight behind the Elcan, move it in front of the objective, this still works and you can even see the irons through the scope if needed. Primary sighting systems take precedence over backups. However since it's so compact, it feels denser. Maybe if you hold it in your hand. The scope mount for an LPVO will have similar if not less area than the Elcan’s mounting platform and will concentrate the scope’s weight into a smaller space. |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 3:22:46 PM EDT
[#14]
It’s not actually heavy, since you don’t need a separate mount. If you want something that is Aimpoint fast with a huge eyebox, etched reticle and 4 power option it’s hard to beat. Downsides are basically ARMS mounts, low mount height, no diopter, only 4x on the top end.
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Posted: 11/4/2021 3:59:38 PM EDT
[#15]
It's a meh optic.
I bought mine for $1300 on FB The new arms levers are better but nowhere near larue/MI/Scararworks good. Nice glass. Bright dot. Decent reticle. Not heavy for what you're getting. Eyebox is kind of picky. Not a deal breaker. I'd probably still have mine if it had one more inch of eye relief. Am I far happier with a G2R for that price? Big time. |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 5:57:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: hey, I like the thing, I've got one on my rifle right now Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here we go. hey, I like the thing, I've got one on my rifle right now I wasn’t meaning it like that no worries  Just that Elcan threads always get bogged down as soon as weight comes up. There are a lot of apples to oranges comparisons that inevitably come up.
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Posted: 11/4/2021 6:09:50 PM EDT
[#17]
This thread needs more pics
 Attached File |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 6:47:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Nope, but I’ll check it out!
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Posted: 11/4/2021 6:48:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Thanks for providing the write up! I want as much information as possible before making my decision.
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Posted: 11/4/2021 6:49:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Yeah, I’ve heard the ARMS levers are poo unles you upgrade to the Gen II.
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Posted: 11/4/2021 6:54:12 PM EDT
[#21]
What’s a G2R?
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Posted: 11/4/2021 6:54:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Agreed
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Posted: 11/4/2021 6:55:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I’ve heard the ARMS levers are poo unles you upgrade to the Gen II. They’re fine (serviceable, do their jobs, whatever) unless your rail is wonky and out of spec. This assumes the ARMS mounts themselves are made to spec, since they don’t adjust. The Mk II levers do adjust, which does make them an objective improvement. Really though while they’re not my favorite mounts by a mile, I’ve used them on a lot of rifles and they all did their jobs fine. |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 7:29:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Great glass, great illumination, fine on weight.
Absolutely not worth Kahles money. ETA: The FOV on 1x is very good as well. Nice piece of glass! But for the money you can get a whole lot of LPVO. |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 9:14:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread needs more picshttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/355044/306DD413-9311-42ED-A6B3-4665EAC4B90B_jpe-2154980.JPG Agree  |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 9:22:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryWhat’s the point of the red dot on top if the Elcan has 1x and an illuminated dot already? |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 9:35:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Night vision or in case you’re in 4x and shouldn’t be.
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Posted: 11/4/2021 10:00:21 PM EDT
[#28]
I had the OS4X and the glass was excellent....I needed a scope with a diopter adjustment with my eyesight so I sold it
The ARMS levers/mount stink/s. I even upgraded to the new ARMS levers...no help. I would like to see an ELCAN that can be installed on a different mount |
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Posted: 11/4/2021 10:28:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What’s the point of the red dot on top if the Elcan has 1x and an illuminated dot already? My same question… |
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Posted: 11/5/2021 12:53:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What’s a G2R? Vortex Gen 2 razor 1-6 |
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Posted: 11/5/2021 7:56:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My same question The ARMS Mk 2 levers are like $20 shipped straight from ARMS: http://armsmounts.com/shop/accessories/mk-ii-lever/ I bought them from ARMS and for some reason the first pair had blue threadlocker all over the adjustment threads. I thought this was normal and it made it a PITA to use. I contacted them and they sent me another pair promptly (without threadlocker) and now it makes sense. The clamping does not mar the surface of the rail. The adjustment/tension is rather hokey at first but it seems to work. |
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Posted: 11/5/2021 8:03:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 1.5-6x doesn't have a 1x mode. Also: 2 is 1 and 1 is none. The ARMS Mk 2 levers are like $20 shipped straight from ARMS: http://armsmounts.com/shop/accessories/mk-ii-lever/ I bought them from ARMS and for some reason the first pair had blue threadlocker all over the adjustment threads. I thought this was normal and it made it a PITA to use. I contacted them and they sent me another pair promptly (without threadlocker) and now it makes sense. The clamping does not mar the surface of the rail. The adjustment/tension is rather hokey at first but it seems to work. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My same question The ARMS Mk 2 levers are like $20 shipped straight from ARMS: http://armsmounts.com/shop/accessories/mk-ii-lever/ I bought them from ARMS and for some reason the first pair had blue threadlocker all over the adjustment threads. I thought this was normal and it made it a PITA to use. I contacted them and they sent me another pair promptly (without threadlocker) and now it makes sense. The clamping does not mar the surface of the rail. The adjustment/tension is rather hokey at first but it seems to work. The one in the pic is a 1-4x though |
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Posted: 11/5/2021 8:50:19 AM EDT
[#33]
It's a great optic. Once you factor in that you don't need another mount, it's not heavy for a variable power optic.
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Posted: 11/5/2021 10:17:21 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed |
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Posted: 11/5/2021 12:21:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The one in the pic is a 1-4x though Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My same question The ARMS Mk 2 levers are like $20 shipped straight from ARMS: http://armsmounts.com/shop/accessories/mk-ii-lever/ I bought them from ARMS and for some reason the first pair had blue threadlocker all over the adjustment threads. I thought this was normal and it made it a PITA to use. I contacted them and they sent me another pair promptly (without threadlocker) and now it makes sense. The clamping does not mar the surface of the rail. The adjustment/tension is rather hokey at first but it seems to work. The one in the pic is a 1-4x though I could give you all sorts of reasons, from passive aiming with night vision, as a backup sight, to being able to use it from bad shooting positions where you can’t get behind the scope. None of those are really my reasons and honestly I don’t have a good reason. I just like it, the optic allows it, and it weighs practically nothing to add it. I like building clone rifles and a common configuration of the Elcan used by SOCOM is to have a piggybacked Docter or Insight MRDS on top. With all that being said, it’s very common to have an offset red dot with traditional LPVO’s that all have a 1x so I really don’t see the issue here. |
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Posted: 11/5/2021 12:37:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could give you all sorts of reasons, from passive aiming with night vision, as a backup sight, to being able to use it from bad shooting positions where you can't get behind the scope. None of those are really my reasons and honestly I don't have a good reason. I just like it, the optic allows it, and it weighs practically nothing to add it. I like building clone rifles and a common configuration of the Elcan used by SOCOM is to have a piggybacked Docter or Insight MRDS on top. With all that being said, it's very common to have an offset red dot with traditional LPVO's that all have a 1x so I really don't see the issue here. +1 to all points above. I like how my ELCAN 1.5-6x takes a Docter-footprint red dot sight. I have my Vortex Venom mounted on top. I realize it isn't the most durable mini red-dot, but I had it lying around. I thought about switching to the Vortex Viper red dot for better durability but will leave the Venom in place for now. It is super super light and barely adds any weight to the overall ELCAN setup. my 1.5-6 came with the Tenebraex flip covers and the Killflash which are expensive by themselves. The ARMS Mk2 levers are dirt cheap like mentioned above (about $20 dollars shipped straight from ARMS) but i do agree that they aren't the best material but the overall ELCAN looks durable enough to keep zero after rolling down a mountainside in Afghanistan. |
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Posted: 11/6/2021 5:19:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Edit: Welcome to the forum!
I had one a couple years back. I also bought used here in the EE. I didn't have it long before I sold it. I think it's a good optic, but for the price I was into other options more. For a clone build though, I say do it if you find a decent used one. Glass is great, iluminated dot is actually daylight bright, and flipping the lever for magnification is super fun, like an HK slap. |
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Posted: 11/6/2021 11:29:55 AM EDT
[#38]
I love mine. Decided to get it after I had used my acog on another build for my father in law and my eotech lost zero on me in the middle of a run and gun match.
I've heard the complaints and thus far, after three run and guns with it, I find them to be unwarranted. Never had a POI shift. The eye relief isn't any more difficult or weird than anything else. It's been banged to shit and the external adjustments have never been moved. Also, pics 
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Posted: 11/6/2021 11:40:55 AM EDT
[#39]
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the ELCAN's superior battery life yet, when compared to LPVOs:
382 hours on maximum red dot/reticle setting 1730 hours on second highest red dot setting 1208 hours on second highest reticle setting |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 12:32:37 PM EDT
[#40]
I was issued and trained/ deployed with the Elcan 1-4. I used it from 2010-2017. It worked great for me. The red dot was daylight bright. I carried it and only switched to x4 for targets past 100-200. It was a little heavier and the eye relief was different than the other sights I had been issued, but training with it overcame the issues. Problems with it were: back up sights on top were always broken but also seldom used, the battery cap was difficult to tighten for fear of breaking it, the loose battery cap would cause the red dot to shut off during firing until it was tightened. But overall a great sight. I do not own one now, I personally cannot justify a $1k+ optic on my AR. If i had one, I would use it on a duty type use weapon. I liked the Aimpoint M68 issued from 2003-2009. I did not like the ACOG, tried it for a few weeks and qualified with it once and went back to the M68. I had the EoTech 552 as a back up but knew they were unreliable and luckily never needed it. Bought my own 512 that was great till it died at 10 years. YMMV.
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Posted: 11/7/2021 4:21:38 PM EDT
[#41]
I just wanted to chime in and say Armament Tech’s CS is pretty top notch. On par with Trijicon and Vortex.
The warranty is pretty vague, but I didn’t pay a cent for shipping/repairs on a damaged, several year old optic. Love my Elcan. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 5:10:41 PM EDT
[#42]
I love my Elcan SpecterDR Dual Role 1-4x 5.56. Yeah it is expensive. Especially if you are paying MSRP. But I will say, for a SHTF and everything in-between, it is a great optic and I have zero complaints other than the price. Great glass, reticle, design, durability...etc. If you have the cashola saved up and want one, I don't think you will be disappointed. It is a quality optic if you are ok with the the magnification.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 9:48:50 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My same question… Passive aiming, more tolerant of head/eye positioning, faster transition to the dot versus manipulating the throw lever or fussing with the illumination knob. More utility than the emergency sights… Love the Elcan, never had an issue with the ARMS levers outside being too tight. Wish the eye relief was better, and that the optic sat a little higher, though. I jump around on a lot of different optic setups, so I eventually sold the ones I owned, but I’ve done that with almost every optic I’ve owned. May pick another one down the line for my AUG, if that sticks around
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Posted: 11/8/2021 11:12:42 AM EDT
[#44]
I will echo that Armament Tech has awesome customer service. They are top notch. At first the warranty seems underwhelming but I've heard very few complaints about their team, nor do I have any of my own.
I assume that Elcan is probably using a voltmeter or something of the such to determine the battery life numbers. Presumably they are technically correct, I found that the battery life on the maximum dot setting was better than 382 hours in practice. It lasts about 500 hours before there is any noticeable loss in brightness, and it remains daylight bright for another 4-5 days. This was consistent across two separate batteries. (Note, this is with the latest gen CR2032 battery model, which also has a battery cap with a coin/tool slot that probably makes it much easier to tighten.) The eye relief appears to be shorter than the listed number, closer to 2.15" than 2.76", but I don't find the front-to-back head forgiveness to be bad once your eye relief is set up properly. It's not great either, but the side-to-side eyebox is excellent on both 1x and 4x. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 11:38:46 AM EDT
[#45]
I have used the Elcan 1-4 a lot now.
I prefer the civilian reticle to the SU-230 reticle because I like the circles and really like the ranging portion of the reticle, which is handy sometimes. It is worth its slight weight penalty because of the versatility, super clear glass and forgiving eye relief. Never had an upper that the arms mount wouldn’t work with, but I wish there was something less likely to break, as that is a known issue with their levers. I have never broken one, though. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 12:36:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will echo that Armament Tech has awesome customer service. They are top notch. At first the warranty seems underwhelming but I've heard very few complaints about their team, nor do I have any of my own. I assume that Elcan is probably using a voltmeter or something of the such to determine the battery life numbers. Presumably they are technically correct, I found that the battery life on the maximum dot setting was better than 382 hours in practice. It lasts about 500 hours before there is any noticeable loss in brightness, and it remains daylight bright for another 4-5 days. This was consistent across two separate batteries. (Note, this is with the latest gen CR2032 battery model, which also has a battery cap with a coin/tool slot that probably makes it much easier to tighten.) The eye relief appears to be shorter than the listed number, closer to 2.15" than 2.76", but I don't find the front-to-back head forgiveness to be bad once your eye relief is set up properly. It's not great either, but the side-to-side eyebox is excellent on both 1x and 4x. Yep, Armament Tech is really great to deal with. When I first got mine I couldn’t get the CR2032 battery cap off . I didn’t realize you had to turn the illumination while loosening and was afraid of breaking the dial. I was trying to hold the dial in place while trying to loosen the cap which does not work. As a result, I chewed up the cap pretty good. I called them up and spoke with a nice Canadian girl who walked me through the process and reassured me that I wouldn’t break the dial. Then she sent me a new battery cap free of charge. 
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Posted: 11/8/2021 12:39:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have used the Elcan 1-4 a lot now. I prefer the civilian reticle to the SU-230 reticle because I like the circles and really like the ranging portion of the reticle, which is handy sometimes. It is worth its slight weight penalty because of the versatility, super clear glass and forgiving eye relief. Never had an upper that the arms mount wouldn’t work with, but I wish there was something less likely to break, as that is a known issue with their levers. I have never broken one, though. I don’t go out of my way to use A.R.M.S. products. I will say though they have good customer service in my experience and I don’t think there would be any issues getting a replacement lever if one broke. I called in the order for the MKII levers since the website at the time defaulted to expensive UPS shipping. Someone answered right away and the order was in the mail the next day. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 12:58:09 PM EDT
[#48]
I have a newer gen Specter DR 1-4 and I do like it a lot more than any LPVO, but not as much as a 4x ACOG, especially if the ACOG has an RMR on top of it. The Elcan glass is nice, about on par with the ACOG. Eye relief is slightly better. It's significantly more heavy than the ACOG, but not as heavy as an LPVO. Reticle is nice. I have had some issues with my illumination flickering while shooting, I replaced the battery and it seems to be ok the last few times I took it out *knock on wood* but that honestly didn't inspire much confidence in the thing, especially after reading how many people seem to have that issue. I honestly love the concept of it and how it works, but I find myself leaving it on 4x and rarely using the 1x.
Is it honestly worth $1800+? I spent 1700 for mine and don't regret it, but I honestly think they aren't worth more than $1400. I'd rather have a TA31 with an RMR for that money if I had to have one of the two. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 4:06:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Great glass.
Heavy and bulky. Expensive. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 4:24:15 PM EDT
[#50]
I've owned one. Niche optic. Great glass but heavy. Eye Relief was the ultimate deal breaker.
I also have an EXPS 3-0 and a G33 magnifier and I would recommend that combo over the ELCAN. |
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