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Take your AR15 and do a Run and Gun event. (Page 2 of 7)
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I started with a red dot and magnifier. Then a 4x. Now a 6x. I’ve never wished for less magnification. I’ve had matches with unpainted targets, or later when the paint is shot off, and you can’t find the targets on 6x. If you run one with unpainted targets, you need all the glass you can get. I’m looking to up it to a 8x or 10x. And will probably go mildot and have my holds on a range card. I’ve had matches for 556 normally go to 600 and stop there. If I had to do it again, I’d get a 1-8x, run 6mmMAX, a medium barrel. And call it good. I currently run a vortex razor 1-6 with JM reticle and a 14.5in DD lightweight barrel. I’ll probably go heavier over time and give up carrying more ammo for accuracy. The lightweight barrels open up when hot and get hot fast. The JM reticle sucks for precision. |
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Originally Posted By Joedirt199: Making my 9 y/o son run eith me at Legion in August. He is gonna hate the heat but loves to run. Looking to set him up with some airsoft gear to look more legit. I may be carrying him before the thing is over. Cool! Give him some tasks- carry a radio tuned to RO frequency, carry an IFAK, bring a note pad to record your shoot and wait times, etc. My son is 16 now and started competing at 14. We won parent/kid division at the Pawnee Team RnG last year and prepping to prepare the title again in July. |
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Originally Posted By Razzman1: You are in the mecca of run and gun being in Texas. They have more R&G matches than any other state. I just got back from Palestine TX this morning after shooting the Old Eighteen Defense Deadcat Ranch R&G and it was fantastic. 7 miles, 7 stages with targets out to about 500. R&G matches are the most enjoyable form of competitive shooting I've ever been involved in. Go to the RNG discussion board in Facebook. There's a Discord channel for R&G as well that does a better job of letting you know the where and when of matches. OED (Old Eighteen Defense) runs a bunch of R&G matches in TX, so visit their site. Waco Tactical Fitness is another great match, and their October match registration opens on the 24th. For the good matches, know that they tend to sell out very quickly--matches like Legion will sell out in 30 or 40 SECONDS once they go live on PractiScore, so you have to be on your game just to get in to the match! I will echo what the OP stated--it's a great way to test your gear and yourself. I was at that one as well, was a great match. Buddy and I did the sunday Team portion with M14's and 1911's just for fun |
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Originally Posted By HotelBravo: I was at that one as well, was a great match. Buddy and I did the sunday Team portion with M14's and 1911's just for fun That's awesome! I shot a R&G match with a guy who dressed in (relatively) period-correct WWII gear, shooting a Garand and 1911. Super cool. I think that's part of what I like about R&G matches--a very different feel from USPSA. Guys just want to have a good time and try out their gear--not worry about cut-throat tenth of a second shaving. |
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Originally Posted By HotelBravo: I was at that one as well, was a great match. Buddy and I did the sunday Team portion with M14's and 1911's just for fun Originally Posted By HotelBravo: Originally Posted By Razzman1: You are in the mecca of run and gun being in Texas. They have more R&G matches than any other state. I just got back from Palestine TX this morning after shooting the Old Eighteen Defense Deadcat Ranch R&G and it was fantastic. 7 miles, 7 stages with targets out to about 500. R&G matches are the most enjoyable form of competitive shooting I've ever been involved in. Go to the RNG discussion board in Facebook. There's a Discord channel for R&G as well that does a better job of letting you know the where and when of matches. OED (Old Eighteen Defense) runs a bunch of R&G matches in TX, so visit their site. Waco Tactical Fitness is another great match, and their October match registration opens on the 24th. For the good matches, know that they tend to sell out very quickly--matches like Legion will sell out in 30 or 40 SECONDS once they go live on PractiScore, so you have to be on your game just to get in to the match! I will echo what the OP stated--it's a great way to test your gear and yourself. I was at that one as well, was a great match. Buddy and I did the sunday Team portion with M14's and 1911's just for fun Did you guys happen to shoot the BSR 2-man 2-gun a month or two ago also? |
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Originally Posted By HotelBravo: That was us! I'm the one with the EBR Originally Posted By HotelBravo: Originally Posted By mustangduckk: Did you guys happen to shoot the BSR 2-man 2-gun a month or two ago also? That was us! I'm the one with the EBR Right on! We were the father/son team in your squad. You guys rocked it on the long range, and the 360 bay pistol mag relay was hilarious with your 45acp mags lol. |
When exposing a crime is treated as committing a crime, you are ruled by criminals.
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Originally Posted By TheGunslinger: In Ramah CO, the Big Ben 3 Gun people have done a 5k in the past, not sure if theyre still going on. Try their Facebook page to message them. https://www.facebook.com/bigben3gun big Ben "blast and dash" |
Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
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Originally Posted By mustangduckk: Right on! We were the father/son team in your squad. You guys rocked it on the long range, and the 360 bay pistol mag relay was hilarious with your 45acp mags lol. Y'all did great, your son knows how to shoot! Yeah man, that last stage was killer and my buddy was hurting running those mags to me since I kept missing some of those pistol shots. First time shooting a 1911 was that match. |
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Originally Posted By Fooboy: Originally Posted By TheGunslinger: In Ramah CO, the Big Ben 3 Gun people have done a 5k in the past, not sure if theyre still going on. Try their Facebook page to message them. https://www.facebook.com/bigben3gun big Ben "blast and dash" Unfortunately that match closed down last year. The guy who ran it it moved to Texas or OK or something. I was bummed, because it was a great match. |
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I'm just east of Dallas, but I don't mind driving ... Most of the TX ones are definitely within driving range How concerned should I be about optics? I have razors 1-6 and 1-10, S&B short dot 1-6 (a bit of a pig) and Kahles 1-6 and 1-8, this is actually what I'm leaning towards. some higher powered stuff on SPR rifles and bolt guns. Bit not much in the middle Is my 8 or 10 top end going to be a limiting factor? I have a 13.9inch 6mm ARC build in progress now, I'm considering running this later this year, or is everyone shooting 5.56? Is everyone running 16in barrels? Longer? I know it's all about weight and balance, I don't want to be hamstrung with a short barrel to save a few ounces |
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Originally Posted By H4ppyB34r: I'm just east of Dallas, but I don't mind driving ... Most of the TX ones are definitely within driving range How concerned should I be about optics? I have razors 1-6 and 1-10, S&B short dot 1-6 (a bit of a pig) and Kahles 1-6 and 1-8, this is actually what I'm leaning towards. some higher powered stuff on SPR rifles and bolt guns. Bit not much in the middle Is my 8 or 10 top end going to be a limiting factor? I have a 13.9inch 6mm ARC build in progress now, I'm considering running this later this year, or is everyone shooting 5.56? Is everyone running 16in barrels? Longer? I know it's all about weight and balance, I don't want to be hamstrung with a short barrel to save a few ounces 8 or 10x is plenty. Zero it in a good mount and know your holds. If you can hit an IPSC at 600 with it, you’re probably gtg for most any RnG. Here is a video I made when I stuck at home with an injury.  Run N Gun Loadout Overview, Rifle and Chest Rig! |
When exposing a crime is treated as committing a crime, you are ruled by criminals.
| A lot depends on what distances you will be facing in the match. Not all matches have shots longer than 2-300 yards. I have shot those ranges with an SWFA 1-4 with several first round hits. I have shot up to 600 yards with a Vortex 1-6 and getting first round hits. It just depends on what you are comfortable with once you find the targets. Unpainted steel is hard to find and you have to spot it first with the naked eye. You won't have time to scan for targets through your glass. Too much magnification makes it hard to transition to the next target with the narrow focused view. |
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Don’t overthink it. Just sign up and go do one. It’s a great community and you’ll learn a ton. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Damon_23: Don’t overthink it. Just sign up and go do one. It’s a great community and you’ll learn a ton. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113101/IMG_9161_jpeg-3576094.JPG Hey man I miss you and your crew coming out to the Pawnee events. |
When exposing a crime is treated as committing a crime, you are ruled by criminals.
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I have learned more about shooting and moving at competitions than I have at a flat range. Drills are fun, but RNG is an entirely different skill builder. I have shot/ran the Legion 10K and Heartbreak RNG since their inceptions. Great people to be around, and I love the challenge of "find a solution to these problems for the next 2 hours continuously." It also gives you a new appreciation for your rifle, assuming it runs and zero doesn't shift. I've posted these before in other RNG threads, but these scars weren't made by throwing it down a driveway. Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Fooboy: If any of you guys have done one recently, please post your AARs Just did Old Eighteen Defense Deadcat Ranch R&G in Palestine, TX last weekend--took 3rd overall, which as a 50 year old, I'm pretty stoked about! 7.5 miles, 7 stages, targets out to about 500 yards, chest deep water crossing, couple of challenging pistol shots, targets were generally sorta-painted, little bit of low-crawling under barbed wire to ensure your pistol works (or doesn't work) when dirty, course was well marked, facility was awesome, and ROs/staff were rock stars. Great match, will shoot again next year. |
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Originally Posted By 3one5: I've been wanting to do one of these! When you say swim, how deep was the water? I'm a bit of a sinker! At first, I thought it was a dumb idea, but by the time I got there on the course, the water felt amazing. I get the impression there's not really much water at all in run and gun so don't let that turn you off. |
Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
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Originally Posted By Fooboy: Not an expert, but from what I can tell, *if* there is water it's usually just a small stream or creek crossing that you can comfortably wade across. The one I did with a swim was eight or 9 feet deep but there was a safety rope you clipped into and you could shed all your gear first. At first, I thought it was a dumb idea, but by the time I got there on the course, the water felt amazing. I get the impression there's not really much water at all in run and gun so don't let that turn you off. Thank you! |
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| I shot a Legion Match on a Saturday with the threat of rain. The holes at one stage were just puddles for us. It rained all night and those puddles turned into waist deep water for the Sunday group. I miss their cave range. That 50* temps on a hot Sept day were amazing. |
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Originally Posted By 3one5: I've been wanting to do one of these! When you say swim, how deep was the water? I'm a bit of a sinker! Texas: I’ve had zip line across pond, if you hold you are fine. Also had wade across creek. Haven’t ever had wade chest deep. That sucks. |
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Originally Posted By Joedirt199: I shot a Legion Match on a Saturday with the threat of rain. The holes at one stage were just puddles for us. It rained all night and those puddles turned into waist deep water for the Sunday group. I miss their cave range. That 50* temps on a hot Sept day were amazing.  That was a wild year. |
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Eli888 at WTF. Water was chest height at its deepest. Plan on your optics getting wet. Attached File |
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Great thread, OP. It is absolutely imperative to get out there and get "inna grass", as they say. We set up another long COF on Independence Day with multiple steel, from multiple positions, drills at certain stages, etc. Was a blast, as always. This is the best way to wring out your kit, find what works & what doesn't, and discover your REAL capabilities with a rifle & pistol. Square range bullshit goes out the window when you're in the dirt, sideways, searching through tall grass to find a target that's only 75 yards in front of you. And lining up precise shots after huffing and puffing to the position, is a far cry from what plinkers experience. Always fun to shoot this way. |
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Originally Posted By Fooboy: Did my first one a few months ago and completed second yesterday. 3.5 mile run and 6 stages of pistol/rifle from 0-300y. Course is blind so you don't know stages until you run up. Course needed ~ 50 rounds of rifle and pistol and I carried about 2x that to be safe. I have learned more about my gear setup (and shortcomings) from 2 run and guns than I have in 10 years of flat range competition. I placed in top 10 out of 100+ so happy with that. We had a deep water crossing (swim, but you could shed your gear first) right before some prone vtac port shooting in sand. That was just mean. Some stages just had written instructions the RO would hand you which you had to decipher (specific targets in specific order). Go find one and try it. You're really competing against yourself and shaking out your gear - the learnings are valuable. Plenty of guys walked or slow jogged so don't feel like you have to be a runner to do this. As a result of these I made multiple small changes to my AR such as sling placement setup, adding lens caps, adding mini rds, changes to my throw lever, etc. Not to mention chest rig selection Finish line pic https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113559/IMG_5622_jpeg-3570192.JPG ETA: Run and Gun location listings - https://thegunrun.us/collections/tickets - Sudo Discord channel (has listings): https://discord.gg/G9CmBhG3 - RnG Discussion (Facebook group) Sawmill? Attached File |
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Originally Posted By JoeDevola: Great thread, OP. It is absolutely imperative to get out there and get "inna grass", as they say. We set up another long COF on Independence Day with multiple steel, from multiple positions, drills at certain stages, etc. Was a blast, as always. This is the best way to wring out your kit, find what works & what doesn't, and discover your REAL capabilities with a rifle & pistol. Square range bullshit goes out the window when you're in the dirt, sideways, searching through tall grass to find a target that's only 75 yards in front of you. And lining up precise shots after huffing and puffing to the position, is a far cry from what plinkers experience. Always fun to shoot this way. Agree on everything. Shooting even a simple COF after 20-30 minutes of physical activity with 160 bpm and sweat running into your eyes is a gut check to your skills and your gear. |
Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
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Originally Posted By rock71: Sawmill? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/55995/IMG_9769_jpeg-3581365.JPG I could go down that rope, but not up it 
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Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
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I've got alot of enjoyment out of matches in the past. Just not enough time anymore. I wish I had some shorter stuff around me but the shortest matches are still an 8 hour investment minimum. I burned 14 hours on my last comp (granted it was ran a little sloppy). I just don't have that kind of time for it anymore unfortunately. Looks like fun though. |
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Originally Posted By Fooboy: Yep. Great complex. Did you shoot it - or what's that pic from? I could go down that rope, but not up it I’ve done a class and a couple of competitions out there, including a long lap around the rifle range, with stages mixed in. It’s a great facility. Attached File |
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| That's the problem. I have a bunch of gym rat guys I work with that can't stand cardio and won't go with me. End up having to go by myself. My son is finally old enough to run with me at 9 y/o. The wife was a highschool/college cross country runner so she is going also. Now I have to get a fancy hotel since she won't stay in the cheap hotels like I used to do when by myself. Debating getting my son some airsoft guns to run with so he fits in better. |
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Originally Posted By 03RN: I would recomend switching out of qd swivels. Theyll get grit or ice in them and fail eventually. I think if more people did run and guns youd see lighter setups across the board. Not ultralights. Just not hogs. I havnt done one but i have to hoof it into my shooting spots and do quite a few drills from 5-200 yards, running all the way. So i typically treat my weekly trips to shoot as gear/weapon tests. Especially when i have to snowshoe in. My favorite shoots are after an 8 mile run in armor, a half mile swim, then a half mile hike into my shooting spot with everything in a ruck. QD swivels are known failure points in a lot of scenarios, I completely agree. For anyone who hasn't been in the military, any of the above should be an eye opener. Heck, running in soft armor restricts breathing, and anything around your waist which isn't adjusted for your specific activity will restrict your movement in odd ways as well. Start wearing a pack and ruck with a weapon and its an eye opener. Not that the military is the end all be all for training, but one of the first things I would recommend is simple jumping up and down in your gear as a good first step, and that was learned early on in the service. A hundred jumping jacks is an easy one to figure out sore spots, loose gear, and noise discipline. That goes in the LE world as well, which got it from the MIL. Wearing a mask is a great humbling experience if you haven't done it before. Lastly, remember events like this are games, tactics tend to go out the window for most people once they start focusing on time or winning. |
Stick
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Originally Posted By Stickman: Lastly, remember events like this are games, tactics tend to go out the window for most people once they start focusing on time or winning. That’s the issue. Note I didn’t say this is a problem. Once there is a timer and a score, it becomes a game. Or at least I see it that way. But some people seem to think if you don’t approach these types of things as a tactical purist, you’re doing it wrong. I like this type of thing for the sporting aspect, whether I’m competing against the other participants, or just against myself. Others see it as “training” or similar. The thing is, it can be either or both, and it’s ok if I get something out of it that’s different than what someone else gets out of it. |
| Not so much a training course as there is no instruction. Maybe a vetting course to test your gear and see how it does in multiple roles over long distance and a way to find weaknesses in your setup. I do them as a means of motivation to keep me active and working out. Don't want fitness to hold me back on the course. |
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Originally Posted By Joedirt199: Not so much a training course as there is no instruction. Maybe a vetting course to test your gear and see how it does in multiple roles over long distance and a way to find weaknesses in your setup. I do them as a means of motivation to keep me active and working out. Don't want fitness to hold me back on the course. - Temps change if you run early (cool) vs middle of day (hot). This has a much bigger impact on a 1 hr run/shooting vs a typical match where everyone is shooting through the same temps/weather/sun direction over a 6 hour period together . - While they try to organize runners to not conflict, Depending on when you go and those before you, some guys may get 10-15 minutes of wait (rest) time off the clock while other guys get 0 rest. Also, measuring wait time (which is removed from your final score) is somewhat primitive. Shooting and running after a rest is an advantage. - Steel gets shot up and harder to find over the course of the day For reasons like this and others, it's still a competition but I wouldn't obsess over it. You're more measuring your shooting (and running) performance against your theoretical max and you place where you place. |
Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
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Originally Posted By GarrettJ: it can be either or both, and it’s ok if I get something out of it that’s different than what someone else gets out of it. Great point. I view the run and guns like randori in judo: “a form of sparring or free practice where participants freely engage in techniques, often with resistance from their partner, to develop skills, timing, and adaptability.” But in this case the resistance is coming from the environment and your gear selection. I’ve run the WTF in TX twice now, and would do it again. Delta34 on YouTube has a really nice course setup as well, far as I can tell. |
Take your AR15 and do a Run and Gun event. (Page 2 of 7)
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