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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
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Posted: 7/16/2021 6:25:52 PM EDT
I'm an SOT, I have built RPK, AK, Sten, M16 post samples and they run fine. One of my earlier SBR post I first did ran full auto fine for years. Today I went to the range, I put my Griffin Arm. Explorr can on it and sighted in my eotech to it. Ran a full mag in semi auto no problems. Popped in a new mag, flip the switch to full and it would fire one round, dead trigger. Pull the charging handle back it didn't chamber a round. Fired the new round, and again no chambered round. I took the can off, would now fire and chamber a new round but had a dead trigger. I would have to manually cycle to recharge the trigger to fire a round, each time expelling an unfired round. I swapped out bolt carriers and buffer and spring from my M16A1 that was running flawlessly, and same issues.

Is it gas? Bolt bounce? I have been having this problem with this MG. The prior range trip it fired full auto 100-200 rounds no problem, suppressed. That is when this issue started.
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 6:42:29 PM EDT
[#1]
In for ideas.
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 6:45:50 PM EDT
[#2]
i think i found the problem perhaps?

Link Posted: 7/16/2021 6:50:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I'm an SOT, I have built RPK, AK, Sten, M16 post samples and they run fine. One of my earlier SBR post I first did ran full auto fine for years. Today I went to the range, I put my Griffin Arm. Explorr can on it and sighted in my eotech to it. Ran a full mag in semi auto no problems. Popped in a new mag, flip the switch to full and it would fire one round, dead trigger. Pull the charging handle back it didn't chamber a round. Fired the new round, and again no chambered round. I took the can off, would now fire and chamber a new round but had a dead trigger. I swapped out bolt carriers and buffer and spring from my M16A1 that was running flawlessly, and same issues.

Is it gas? Bolt bounce? I have been having this problem with this MG. The prior range trip it fired full auto 100-200 rounds no problem, suppressed. That is when this issue started.
View Quote

Bounce will get you hammer down on an unfired round, but not hammer down on an empty chamber. Any feeding problems *should* be experienced in semi auto as well, so it's something do with the selector, disconnector and trigger states only in the auto selector position.

In auto, two things are happening which are not in semi-auto: 1) the hammer is held back by the auto sear instead of riding along the underside of the bolt carrier, and 2) the disconnector is held back by the selector, reducing dynamic force on the trigger, and perhaps further reducing any load which might have been experienced by the bolt carrier, sliding over the face of the hammer.

I guess it's possible you're overgassed and the bolt is severely overspeed, mitigated in semi by the hammer dragging on the bolt carrier, but letting it run free in auto. An overspeed bolt carrier can outrun the dwell time on the magazine, theoretically, resulting in an empty chamber, but that would be a live trigger, thanks to the auto sear.

The only situation leading to an empty chamber and dead trigger I can think of is short stroking, but that should be happening in semi, too..., so I'm stumped at the moment.
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 6:51:19 PM EDT
[#4]
Is that an aluminum gas block? Those are not going to last long and will be leaking fairly quickly.

It's weird that it is fine in semi, have you checked the auto sear to make sure it's good to go? Sounds more like a timing issue and you're getting hammer follow when trying to run auto.
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 7:04:55 PM EDT
[#5]
I wish i had taken the lower off another and tried to run it. Before I do anything else I might do that to see. The sear looks fine, i doubled checked all the internals. I'm running it on a standard carbine buffer and spring, I read somewhere that on SBRS and running it supressed that an H2 or H3 buffer with a blue sprinco usually takes care of bounce. Yeah its aluminum. It looks like a big chunk had been taken out of it over the years. I'm leaning towards the gas block being the issue. Because it went from fine, fine, fine when i'd take it take it out then the last time and today it just totally went south.
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 7:05:29 PM EDT
[#6]
This was just a cheap $230 dollar PSA 10.5 complete upper i had bought a few years back.
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 7:08:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Could that big chunk taken out of the hole in the gas block effect anything? I should think so?
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 7:39:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Heres a video I took the time before when i could at least still get a burst now and then. I was getting frustrated. Today it fired a full mag in semi, then nothing in full, then one round in either full or semi and having to eject a live round to fire a round..(This is my private range on my land, theres a big 10 foot high burm and nothing behind it for a long while.) and i was out there alone.

https://vimeo.com/576019010
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 7:41:46 PM EDT
[#9]
This is the same rifle about two or three years ago, it was actually my first post sample.


https://vimeo.com/576019756
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 11:53:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Make sure your FCG pins haven't walked out a bit. That sometimes happens to me when shooting one of my 10.3s running about 900 rpm.
ETA: on my 10.3-10.5s, I use H3 or PWS H4 buffer with Tubb carbine spring
Link Posted: 7/17/2021 1:35:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Is it possible the auto sear pin walking side to side could cause malfunctions with the sear? I have noticed the pin can sometimes go to either side a bit sticking out from the receiver, not very much at all but not sure it that makes a difference.
Link Posted: 7/17/2021 4:18:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is it possible the auto sear pin walking side to side could cause malfunctions with the sear? I have noticed the pin can sometimes go to either side a bit sticking out from the receiver, not very much at all but not sure it that makes a difference.
View Quote

Yes if the trigger or hammer gets cockeyed.
Link Posted: 7/17/2021 5:32:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 7/17/2021 9:47:57 PM EDT
[#14]
The parts replacement isn't an issue for me. I'm an SOT so i can just buy a whole new set of full auto parts. I'll definitely try that out tonight, and try it on the range tomorrow. My local distributor where i get a lot of my parts is closed till monday, I'll swing by Monday morning and get a new buffer and spring.
Link Posted: 7/17/2021 11:26:40 PM EDT
[#15]
My troubleshooting process may be more field expedient that technical - but I only really troubleshoot when I’m trying to understand what part is going in the trash can.

I would start with a visual inspection - I've seen M4s run piss poor and do weird things because the FCG was carbon baked. If it’s even remotely carbon filled - clean it thoroughly and test.

If you have access - I would troubleshoot it by throwing on a different upper that has run well suppressed, FA or ideally both with another lower. Ideally one that you can test the same can on. With the new upper I would run semi- no can, semi w/can, FA - no can, FA can. The process of elimination removes any variables

This should help you begin with where your issue may be. If the new upper runs well - I would guess that’s it’s a gassing issue. If it still runs the same - I would dive deeper into the FCG.

Link Posted: 7/18/2021 2:55:53 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My troubleshooting process may be more field expedient that technical - but I only really troubleshoot when I’m trying to understand what part is going in the trash can.

I would start with a visual inspection - I've seen M4s run piss poor and do weird things because the FCG was carbon baked. If it’s even remotely carbon filled - clean it thoroughly and test.

If you have access - I would troubleshoot it by throwing on a different upper that has run well suppressed, FA or ideally both with another lower. Ideally one that you can test the same can on. With the new upper I would run semi- no can, semi w/can, FA - no can, FA can. The process of elimination removes any variables

This should help you begin with where your issue may be. If the new upper runs well - I would guess that’s it’s a gassing issue. If it still runs the same - I would dive deeper into the FCG.

View Quote

I know for sure it isn't carbon caused. I am anal with my firearms cleaning. After every shoot I clean them all. It couldn't have gunked up enough to cause malfunctions that day because i had only fired one mag before the malfunctions really started bad. Yeah, I think I'm going to do that this morning. I'll report back with my results. Does it matter the uppers length? I have an A2 upper that runs great that has a taper mount for that particular can. Or should I run the lower with another 10.5? If yes then I'll just put the mount on one of my other 10.5s.
Link Posted: 7/18/2021 10:53:37 AM EDT
[#17]
Ok. I went out, fired 4 mags with one round they all locked the bolt open with the can on. When i then tried to fire a whole mag i got a few rounds out then it went back to bolt action mode. I took the can off and it ran full auto and semi just fine for 2 mags then all the sudden trying a third mag i just got light primer strikes and a soft trigger. So I'm assuming it is just coincidence that the hammer spring wore out the same time? I dont even know what's going on with this damn thing. Or was it the FCG the whole time?
Link Posted: 7/18/2021 10:13:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Sounds like a coincidence and you found the issue - I would inspect everything, and freshen all of your springs in your lower.

After this I would go back out and try the different upper that kind of worked today. If it’s good then I would move on to the 10.5 and see if it’s ironed out or if you need to dig deeper there.
Link Posted: 7/20/2021 3:45:39 PM EDT
[#19]
May bee your autosear hammer release timing is out of spec like mine was.
My rifle fired 100 % reliable in semi auto
As i switched to full Auto it fired only one round next round was chamberd but not ignited and the Hammer was released with a very light primer strike.
My releasing Time was way to early so the hammer was hitting the BCG but not the Firing Pin
Link Posted: 7/27/2021 10:32:05 PM EDT
[#20]
I took it out again the other day, built a whole new lower and put it on that upper. Got a few rounds out in auto before it would chamber a round but wouldnt reset the hammer. Took the can off and it ran in full for three mag dumps no problem. So I have come to the conclusion with the can its causing bolt bounce because with it, the hammer was dead but it ejected and stripped and chambered a new round each time.
Link Posted: 7/28/2021 5:04:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 7/30/2021 8:21:24 PM EDT
[#22]
It ran just fine unsuppressed though. if its the autosear wouldnt i have problems unsuppressed as well?
Link Posted: 8/24/2021 8:32:34 AM EDT
[#23]
Have you tried a heavier buffer to slow the bolt down to allow everything to reset under FA fire? Even the vltior a5 system might be worth looking into
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