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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 2:05:58 PM EDT
I am looking to buy an LWRCI, LMT, or an HK AR-15 chambered in 5.56. If I pay $2,600, what does that get me that the $1,600 model would not have? I like the piston system because I don't want to clean it as frequently as a non-piston gun. I like having a fully ambidextrous rifle. I'd prefer to pay under $1,700, but I do not know what I would be missing out on. I plan on paying for a laser and a flashlight to mount to the rifle after I buy it. I want it to be a home defense gun because I live in a rural area.
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Posted: 4/27/2023 2:37:59 PM EDT
[#1]
It gets you nothing more than a name.
Buy an AR from PSA and use the savings on ammo, training, and accessories. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 2:41:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jwright4288]
[#2]
For $2600 you can build a badass ultra lightweight ar. Hell for $1700 you can still do this no problem. Use a v seven receiver set for starters. You’ll end up under that with a way better AR. You’re paying way too much for a name and a roll mark on the high end factory guns.
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 3:14:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FB41: It gets you nothing more than a name. Buy an AR from PSA and use the savings on ammo, training, and accessories. Respectfully, but emphatically, disagree. I've owned a SIGNIFICANT number of AR15s over the past 39 years. There is a difference between a PSA and BCM/Colt/Daniel Defense. Then there is a difference between BCM/Colt/DD and KAC/LMT. With PSA you get a sloppy budget gun without QA/QC and some questionable parts quality. With BCM/Colt/DD you pay 2x to 3x more than the PSA but you get quality parts and a high level of QA/QC. With KAC/LMT you get the high quality parts and high level of QA/QC coupled with INNOVATION. Innovation is what separates a $1200 Colt EPR from a $2300 LMT MARS. Using the LMT as an example: + Cryo treated barrel + Straight gas tube + 45degree gas port + Monolithic upper with QC barrels + Ambi Lower + Enhanced bolt / bolt carrier My comments are based upon 39 years of owning, shooting, tinkering with, and repairing AR15s. I know I've fired over 100,000 rounds through Colts alone. I couldn't begin to estimate the total number of rounds through all of the ARs that have passed through my hands. What do I own? Colt ... for my basic "duty grade" guns with a FSB requirements LMT ... for my "go to" requirements HK ... for my "because I like it" feelz |
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 3:28:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By Blackpowder93: I am looking to buy an LWRCI, LMT, or an HK AR-15 chambered in 5.56. If I pay $2,600, what does that get me that the $1,600 model would not have? I like the piston system because I don't want to clean it as frequently as a non-piston gun. I like having a fully ambidextrous rifle. I'd prefer to pay under $1,700, but I do not know what I would be missing out on. I plan on paying for a laser and a flashlight to mount to the rifle after I buy it. I want it to be a home defense gun because I live in a rural area. Your requirements and budget do not align. First, a good deal on a HK MR556A1 is around $2900 + tax + shipping + FFL fee. It is also not fully ambi. Second, I had SEVEN LWRC piston ARs at one time and a total of TWELVE over the course of three years. I didn't find them to be overly reliable with lower quality ammo, and their recoil impulse was more abrupt than other piston designs. Lastly, if you're using a laser I wouldn't choose a LWRC because the handguard is a two-pc design that has to be removed to service the gas piston. Third, LMT makes a perfect candidate in their MARS Piston rifles, but it will cost more than your budget will allow. You would be able to find a standard DI LMT MARS (fully ambi) for around $1900-2300 which would also feature a monolithic upper (perfect for LAMs .. laser aiming devices). However, if you want the same gun in piston form it will be another $400-500. Piston ARs definitely run cleaner than DI but they still have to be cleaned occasionally. Piston guns are also heavier and more complicated (a DI gas tube is replaced with a multi-part piston system). Most of my guns are DI. I do have one HK and one LMT piston, because. If you think a suppressor is in your future than a piston does make more sense. One of the neat features of the LMT MRP (mono upper) is that you can change it from a DI to PISTON easily. All that has to be done is you remove to screws, pull out barrel, install other barrel, reinstall two screws. The BCG matches the barrel (DI for DI and PISTON for PISTON). My suggestion ... Find a deal on a LMT MARS DI (look to spend $2000-2100). Get it set up as you want it. Shoot it a lot. If you want to "upgrade" to a piston later ... just buy a LMT piston BCM and barrel assembly. Less than 1 minute to change the gun from DI to P. My LMT MARS DI ...  My LMT MARS PISTON ...  Photos courtesy of LMT's website |
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USA
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Posted: 4/27/2023 3:35:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GaryT1776]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FB41: It gets you nothing more than a name. Buy an AR from PSA and use the savings on ammo, training, and accessories. I should of added ... with PSA you're likely to get a 4 MOA gun that is also SERIOUSLY overgassed. I've owned more of their uppers than I will admit and they simply DO NOT SHOOT well. They're acceptable for the average 100 rounds a year guy or someone like me that buys them to "burn out" on the range during high intensity training (wherein precision isn't important). By contrast, a $900 Colt 6920 is a 1.5 MOA gun in capable hands. This comment is not a "sample of one" either. You wouldn't believe how many I've accuracy tested. You aren't just "buying a name". If you don't believe me about Colt barrel accuracy potential ... find MOLON on this forum. Read his posts / watch his results. ETA: I was shooting 2,000 rounds a month through PSA uppers for about two straight years. They're not "shooters" in the accuracy sense. |
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Posted: 4/27/2023 3:54:38 PM EDT
[#6]
I have a Geissele upper sitting in my closet waiting for my $300 PSA upper to let me down. It hasn't exploded yet -- >at about 10k rounds currently. The gas tube has melted the hand guard a bit though
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 10:30:34 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aridcat: I have a Geissele upper sitting in my closet waiting for my $300 PSA upper to let me down. It hasn't exploded yet -- >at about 10k rounds currently. The gas tube has melted the hand guard a bit though What kind of accuracy are you getting from the PSA upper? Not looking to pick a fight, but genuinely want to know. My PSA uppers go from 4 MOA to about 6 MOA in the first 5k rounds. Somewhere between 5k and 8k they keyhole. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 10:34:03 AM EDT
[#8]
I only shoot Wolf Classic (Barnaul) steel case in PSA uppers. (The same ammo I use in my training unit Colts and LMTs). At 10k a LMT mid-length "MRP" barrel will start to show mild signs of gas port erosion (ejection starts to go to around 2:30 instead of 3 oclock) and/or action spring wear. Accuracy usually degrades about 1 to 2 MOA. I haven't taken one over 20k, but at 20k they're still 4 MOA.
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 1:20:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Lastly, if you're using a laser I wouldn't choose a LWRC because the handguard is a two-pc design that has to be removed to service the gas piston. Does "two-pc" mean "two piece"? What is wrong with removing it to service the gas piston? Wouldn't a normal cleaning involve removing the laser? I guess every time I remove the laser, I have to calibrate it. While a piston gun would involve fewer cleanings, it would still involve cleaning. Is the LMT MARS Piston fully ambi? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 6:27:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blackpowder93: Does "two-pc" mean "two piece"? What is wrong with removing it to service the gas piston? Wouldn't a normal cleaning involve removing the laser? I guess every time I remove the laser, I have to calibrate it. While a piston gun would involve fewer cleanings, it would still involve cleaning. Is the LMT MARS Piston fully ambi? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blackpowder93: Lastly, if you're using a laser I wouldn't choose a LWRC because the handguard is a two-pc design that has to be removed to service the gas piston. Does "two-pc" mean "two piece"? What is wrong with removing it to service the gas piston? Wouldn't a normal cleaning involve removing the laser? I guess every time I remove the laser, I have to calibrate it. While a piston gun would involve fewer cleanings, it would still involve cleaning. Is the LMT MARS Piston fully ambi? Yes, LMT MARS external piston setup is full ambi. All MARS branding rifles/pistols from LMT are full ambi. Some of the best lowers on the market, imho. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2023 8:41:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Just get a Sig 516 for like $1300, slap an A5 system on it, put in an ambi charging handle, add an optic, GtG. Comes with ambi lower and adjustable gas block.
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Posted: 4/29/2023 2:56:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: aridcat]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: What kind of accuracy are you getting from the PSA upper? Not looking to pick a fight, but genuinely want to know. My PSA uppers go from 4 MOA to about 6 MOA in the first 5k rounds. Somewhere between 5k and 8k they keyhole. at 50 yards its still shooting about as tight as i can aim. at 100 its more of a 'can keep all rounds within a paper plate' level from what i recall, but that might be as much me as it is the gun. I continue to be happy with it. It isn't key holing yet. Just the standard PSA Freedom nitride barrel. I suppose accuracy really depends on the ammo as well. I think m193 style 55 grain from most manufacturers is considered around 4 MOA usually (I believe that is also the military standard) |
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USA
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Posted: 4/29/2023 5:04:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GaryT1776]
[#13]
Your 100yd aligns with my experience based upon your round count. It’s a 8MOA gun at this point. You might start seeing keyholes with the next 1000rds.
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USA
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Posted: 4/29/2023 5:08:04 PM EDT
[#14]
I don’t know your cleaning regimen but a good copper removal might tighten it back up some. A lot of people recommend doing it every 5k.
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USA
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:49:31 AM EDT
[#15]
You can find a used scar for the low $2,000’s.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2023 11:30:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pippinone]
[#16]
Geez, for $800-$1,000 you can buy a PWS upper. Here's one for $800, although you can no longer legally slap a brace on it, so you'll need to budget an additional $200 for Uncle Sugar.
 - https://www.primaryarms.com/pws-mk111-pro-complete-upper-223-wylde-gas-piston-11.85. Buy a stripped lower for $70. Add a Geissele or LaRue trigger, Radian ambidextrous safety, and other parts of your choice. Depending on what you spec and how much you're willing to shop for deals you should be around or under $1,600 and will have a terrific rifle. I've owned two PWS's over the years and have found them to be accurate, reliable and fairly light for a piston system. Use the money you save for ammo and a decent optic. P.S. If you're going the piston route, you should think about getting a suppressor as well. They kind of go together like peanut butter and jelly. And if you go this route, and get it from Primary Arms, you can send me the free hat that comes with it. 
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2023 12:02:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DetroitSounds]
[#17]
Are you buying a price or a rifle?
Buy, try, sell, buy, try, sell. Find what YOU like. Internet opinions are just that - Opinions. My worthless opinion, after owning just about every AR on the planet, and building dozens of em? I wouldn't run a PSA if you paid me to. Good AR's start at BCM. After that it's just personal preferences. I run MK18's and Knights. Go D.I> |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 12:52:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Ditto on the "You should look at the PWS uppers/guns"
My LWRC is one of the SLOPPIEST shooting guns I own. It has a permanent place in the back of my safe. |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 1:11:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FB41: It gets you nothing more than a name. Buy an AR from PSA and use the savings on ammo, training, and accessories. That’s not accurate at all. You can argue whether someone needs a certain feature set, but to say there are no additional features with guns more expensive than a bare bones PSA build is just an outright lie. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2023 10:55:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: That’s not accurate at all. You can argue whether someone needs a certain feature set, but to say there are no additional features with guns more expensive than a bare bones PSA build is just an outright lie. This |
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2023 10:58:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DetroitSounds: Are you buying a price or a rifle? Buy, try, sell, buy, try, sell. Find what YOU like. Internet opinions are just that - Opinions. My worthless opinion, after owning just about every AR on the planet, and building dozens of em? I wouldn't run a PSA if you paid me to. Good AR's start at BCM. After that it's just personal preferences. I run MK18's and Knights. Go D.I> I feel roughly the same. BCM, Colt and Daniel Defense are my personal minimums. I’ve used PSAs for burner guns but am at a point where my time is too valuable to be spent sorting one out so Colt has become my abuse trainer standard. My preference is for LMT MARS monolithics. |
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Posted: 5/2/2023 12:59:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By Blackpowder93: I am looking to buy an LWRCI, LMT, or an HK AR-15 chambered in 5.56. If I pay $2,600, what does that get me that the $1,600 model would not have? I like the piston system because I don't want to clean it as frequently as a non-piston gun. I like having a fully ambidextrous rifle. I'd prefer to pay under $1,700, but I do not know what I would be missing out on. I plan on paying for a laser and a flashlight to mount to the rifle after I buy it. I want it to be a home defense gun because I live in a rural area. It’s kind of like vehicles. Do you want need desire a Kia, a Cadillac, a Buick, Mercedes, a BMW, a Maserati? Your need, your budget, your desires, your wants, your wishes all of these come in a play The one that is best for me may not be the one that is best for you. Your decision, your money. I’ve owned rifles from PSA all the way up to HK. For me, the 14.5 Mod 2 Knights works best for me |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2023 9:48:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sideswipeasaurus]
[#23]
Like many consumer products, there's a point of exponential diminishing returns when it comes to what you get for what you pay. For $1600 you can get an AR that will be everything one wants in a first and last AR. Beyond that and you're paying for refinements and/or niche features. I'd consider piston system AR's a niche feature that you'll pay a premium for but won't make much difference. Rather than focus on that niche feature I'd focus on overall build quality and brand reputation in a DI AR. For your target $1700 that would get you into a BCM Recce16. That's a helluva rifle and it's no coincidence that a lot of the known names of ex DEVGRU, Delta, etc guys out on the training circuit are sporting BCM's. They may have been issued and had the selection of all the Gucci guns you and I would pay that $2600+ for but when they're spending their own money it's very often BCM.
If you must have a piston gun I"d skip an AR altogether. You can buy a 2nd Gen Sig MCX (VIrtus) for your target budget now that the 3rd gen (Spear) is out. Those are also great rifles and out of the box they are what a lot of upper end piston AR's will never be just because they're not trying to hotrod a 60+ year old design to have all the features a modern ground up piston gun design would have. |
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Posted: 5/5/2023 10:35:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sideswipeasaurus: Like many consumer products, there's a point of exponential diminishing returns when it comes to what you get for what you pay. For $1600 you can get an AR that will be everything one wants in a first and last AR. Beyond that and you're paying for refinements and/or niche features. I'd consider piston system AR's a niche feature that you'll pay a premium for but won't make much difference. Rather than focus on that niche feature I'd focus on overall build quality and brand reputation in a DI AR. For your target $1700 that would get you into a BCM Recce16. That's a helluva rifle and it's no coincidence that a lot of the known names of ex DEVGRU, Delta, etc guys out on the training circuit are sporting BCM's. They may have been issued and had the selection of all the Gucci guns you and I would pay that $2600+ for but when they're spending their own money it's very often BCM. If you must have a piston gun I"d skip an AR altogether. You can buy a 2nd Gen Sig MCX (VIrtus) for your target budget now that the 3rd gen (Spear) is out. Those are also great rifles and out of the box they are what a lot of upper end piston AR's will never be just because they're not trying to hotrod a 60+ year old design to have all the features a modern ground up piston gun design would have. To be fair, most any high end trainer has sponsorships and usually uses guns through those deals as advertising for the brand. I highly doubt any of them are even paying for those rifles. In this world, the big names are like Nike signing Jordan. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2023 2:30:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sideswipeasaurus]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: To be fair, most any high end trainer has sponsorships and usually uses guns through those deals as advertising for the brand. I highly doubt any of them are even paying for those rifles. In this world, the big names are like Nike signing Jordan. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: Originally Posted By Sideswipeasaurus: Like many consumer products, there's a point of exponential diminishing returns when it comes to what you get for what you pay. For $1600 you can get an AR that will be everything one wants in a first and last AR. Beyond that and you're paying for refinements and/or niche features. I'd consider piston system AR's a niche feature that you'll pay a premium for but won't make much difference. Rather than focus on that niche feature I'd focus on overall build quality and brand reputation in a DI AR. For your target $1700 that would get you into a BCM Recce16. That's a helluva rifle and it's no coincidence that a lot of the known names of ex DEVGRU, Delta, etc guys out on the training circuit are sporting BCM's. They may have been issued and had the selection of all the Gucci guns you and I would pay that $2600+ for but when they're spending their own money it's very often BCM. If you must have a piston gun I"d skip an AR altogether. You can buy a 2nd Gen Sig MCX (VIrtus) for your target budget now that the 3rd gen (Spear) is out. Those are also great rifles and out of the box they are what a lot of upper end piston AR's will never be just because they're not trying to hotrod a 60+ year old design to have all the features a modern ground up piston gun design would have. To be fair, most any high end trainer has sponsorships and usually uses guns through those deals as advertising for the brand. I highly doubt any of them are even paying for those rifles. In this world, the big names are like Nike signing Jordan. For sure, that's the way of the world in many things. That's likely true in specific cases but likely less so or more transparently so in the gun world. Jerry Miculek is probably the most obvious example with S&W, where he even wears their branded clothing but then again he's mostly in the competition world that follows closer to the sports marketing model. I can also think of Larry Vickers, who is pretty upfront about his previous alignment with HK and later BCM. Unlike the sports world, people who get some sort of commercial relationship with a brand will likely be using and familiar with the actual brand products. Jordan had custom made sneakers modeled on his feet and how he moves. Doubt he ever wore a pair of off the shelf Air Jordans. Anyway, only mentioned BCM because I noticed a good number of people using them that explicitly say they aren't paid or get free stuff from BCM, they just like their rifles (e.g. the GBRS guys). I don't even own anything BCM but thought it worth mentioning here as a good example of a rifle that hits that sweet spot of value, performance, and reputation without the premium niche price tag. Centurion Arms is another I'd recommend (which I do own) but they don't seem to make complete rifles that are available very often. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 1:47:44 AM EDT
[#26]
Lwrci spr is 1800 at tombstone so you don’t need to pay over 2k
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Posted: 5/12/2023 2:25:47 AM EDT
[#27]
Get a PWS and a Kynshot buffer. Stupid butter smooth and soft with my Rugged Razor. No issues in over 5,000 rounds and sub moa accurate.
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Posted: 5/12/2023 3:00:04 AM EDT
[#28]
I find myself firmly in he BCM camp. I’d run Colts and the like too. It’s high quality and not too expensive. The Gucci rifles don’t offer anything I find particularly helpful or valuable. I’m guessing with innovation you run into some proprietary or harder to source parts. I get that some have to have “the best”, but I don’t see it. Not knocking it, just isn’t for me.
It seems weird when people treat PSA as a cheap junk mfg. they don’t only make $400 budget guns. They have a premium tier with FN barrels and some other upgrades and I’d run the snot out of one of their new Sabre rifles for a G whiz. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 3:30:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Your main motivation is that you don't like cleaning? Dude.
Just buy a BCM or Colt and don't clean it so often. Just add lube. I'm guessing you are cleaning more often than you really need. I own and like piston guns, but have concluded that it's just unnecessary weight and complexity most of the time. It also adds weird proprietary parts. Who knows if those will be around in 10 years when something breaks? If you're going to be shooting a whole lot, suppressed, rapid fire, then maybe piston is worth it. |
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Posted: 5/12/2023 4:09:09 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By travisty250: I find myself firmly in he BCM camp. I’d run Colts and the like too. It’s high quality and not too expensive. The Gucci rifles don’t offer anything I find particularly helpful or valuable. I’m guessing with innovation you run into some proprietary or harder to source parts. I get that some have to have “the best”, but I don’t see it. Not knocking it, just isn’t for me. It seems weird when people treat PSA as a cheap junk mfg. they don’t only make $400 budget guns. They have a premium tier with FN barrels and some other upgrades and I’d run the snot out of one of their new Sabre rifles for a G whiz. Same, Im looking to get one a sabre from PSA. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2023 11:26:23 PM EDT
[#31]
GaryT1776 - You seem to know your shit and I'm not questioning that, but with all of your talk about psa barrels burning out and shit, what barrels are we talking about? They have a lot of variations. Have you burned out one (or more) of the FN ones? Honest question. I'd like to know if you have and how long it survived.
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Posted: 5/17/2023 8:32:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hoody2shoez]
[#32]
Piston master race
I have roughly 2400 into this without optics/accessories Fwiw the superlative arms piston kit gas block and op-rod are only like 1.5oz heavier than the comparative di versions  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/17/2023 8:40:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aridcat: at 50 yards its still shooting about as tight as i can aim. at 100 its more of a 'can keep all rounds within a paper plate' level from what i recall, but that might be as much me as it is the gun. I continue to be happy with it. It isn't key holing yet. Just the standard PSA Freedom nitride barrel. I suppose accuracy really depends on the ammo as well. I think m193 style 55 grain from most manufacturers is considered around 4 MOA usually (I believe that is also the military standard) Accuracy on the level of a paper plate at 100 yards is doable with slugs in a shotgun with a bead sight it's downright embarrassing for an AR |
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USA
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Posted: 5/18/2023 12:24:44 PM EDT
[#34]
These conversations are so stupid, always. There has never been, nor will there ever be, a definitive answer.
Quality on the more expensive guns is higher. From triggers to just feeling "solid," they're better. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves. Accuracy and lethality are going to be the same and/or 10,000 times more dependent on the user than on the gun. If you can spend more for higher quality, do it. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2023 3:38:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FB41: It gets you nothing more than a name. Buy an AR from PSA and use the savings on ammo, training, and accessories. Kind of nailed it. You could build your own so you know the nuances but that’s not always cheaper. As far as cleaning, I did a test on one of my DI guns for fun. Using Wolf ammo I got to 2380 rounds before it even started having any kind of issue, 2800 rounds before the extractor got finicky and broke at 3200+ rounds well after I stopped counting. All the shooting was done over a long 3 day weekend. This was back when you could buy Wolf for about $70/500. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2023 11:24:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MGYSGT8541]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jwright4288: For $2600 you can build a badass ultra lightweight ar. Hell for $1700 you can still do this no problem. Use a v seven receiver set for starters. You'll end up under that with a way better AR. You're paying way too much for a name and a roll mark on the high end factory guns. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2023 11:27:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: Respectfully, but emphatically, disagree. I've owned a SIGNIFICANT number of AR15s over the past 39 years. There is a difference between a PSA and BCM/Colt/Daniel Defense. Then there is a difference between BCM/Colt/DD and KAC/LMT. With PSA you get a sloppy budget gun without QA/QC and some questionable parts quality. With BCM/Colt/DD you pay 2x to 3x more than the PSA but you get quality parts and a high level of QA/QC. With KAC/LMT you get the high quality parts and high level of QA/QC coupled with INNOVATION. Innovation is what separates a $1200 Colt EPR from a $2300 LMT MARS. Using the LMT as an example: + Cryo treated barrel + Straight gas tube + 45degree gas port + Monolithic upper with QC barrels + Ambi Lower + Enhanced bolt / bolt carrier My comments are based upon 39 years of owning, shooting, tinkering with, and repairing AR15s. I know I've fired over 100,000 rounds through Colts alone. I couldn't begin to estimate the total number of rounds through all of the ARs that have passed through my hands. What do I own? Colt ... for my basic "duty grade" guns with a FSB requirements LMT ... for my "go to" requirements HK ... for my "because I like it" feelz |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/27/2023 3:25:46 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: I should of added ... with PSA you're likely to get a 4 MOA gun that is also SERIOUSLY overgassed. I've owned more of their uppers than I will admit and they simply DO NOT SHOOT well. They're acceptable for the average 100 rounds a year guy or someone like me that buys them to "burn out" on the range during high intensity training (wherein precision isn't important). By contrast, a $900 Colt 6920 is a 1.5 MOA gun in capable hands. This comment is not a "sample of one" either. You wouldn't believe how many I've accuracy tested. You aren't just "buying a name". If you don't believe me about Colt barrel accuracy potential ... find MOLON on this forum. Read his posts / watch his results. ETA: I was shooting 2,000 rounds a month through PSA uppers for about two straight years. They're not "shooters" in the accuracy sense. I dont particularly like psa, but the premium upper i have is most assuredly a 1.5-2 moa gun.ypure awful upset about this topic for some silly reason, and this IS the piston section, so i wont be stupid enough to go off topic and recommend non piston guns, so ill say a sig 516 is a solid choice that can be found on gunbroker well within op price range. I sure cant tell you want the self proclaimed expers here with 9 million supposed rounds fired have to say bout that one though. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 6/24/2023 12:00:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MGYSGT8541]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sowinskian: Just get an Sig 516 for like $1300, slap an A5 system on it, put in an ambi charging handle, add an optic, GtG. Comes with ambi lower and adjustable gas block. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 4:38:01 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stowe: GaryT1776 - You seem to know your shit and I'm not questioning that, but with all of your talk about psa barrels burning out and shit, what barrels are we talking about? They have a lot of variations. Have you burned out one (or more) of the FN ones? Honest question. I'd like to know if you have and how long it survived. The way I perceived it, was he is talking about the budget line barrels. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 5:34:22 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blackpowder93: Does "two-pc" mean "two piece"? What is wrong with removing it to service the gas piston? Wouldn't a normal cleaning involve removing the laser? I guess every time I remove the laser, I have to calibrate it. While a piston gun would involve fewer cleanings, it would still involve cleaning. Is the LMT MARS Piston fully ambi? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blackpowder93: Lastly, if you're using a laser I wouldn't choose a LWRC because the handguard is a two-pc design that has to be removed to service the gas piston. Does "two-pc" mean "two piece"? What is wrong with removing it to service the gas piston? Wouldn't a normal cleaning involve removing the laser? I guess every time I remove the laser, I have to calibrate it. While a piston gun would involve fewer cleanings, it would still involve cleaning. Is the LMT MARS Piston fully ambi? You don't need to take the handguard off to clean a DI rifle. You do need to take the handguard off to service the piston. How much you need to clean either really depends on how much you shoot. A DI AR does not need to be white glove inspection ready clean to function properly. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 6:05:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Geissele super duty won’t hold anyone back
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Posted: 7/3/2023 7:10:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mudholestomper]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MGYSGT8541: The Colt M5 is up there with anyone.. well above BCM or SLWGO Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MGYSGT8541: Originally Posted By GaryT1776: Respectfully, but emphatically, disagree. I've owned a SIGNIFICANT number of AR15s over the past 39 years. There is a difference between a PSA and BCM/Colt/Daniel Defense. Then there is a difference between BCM/Colt/DD and KAC/LMT. With PSA you get a sloppy budget gun without QA/QC and some questionable parts quality. With BCM/Colt/DD you pay 2x to 3x more than the PSA but you get quality parts and a high level of QA/QC. With KAC/LMT you get the high quality parts and high level of QA/QC coupled with INNOVATION. Innovation is what separates a $1200 Colt EPR from a $2300 LMT MARS. Using the LMT as an example: + Cryo treated barrel + Straight gas tube + 45degree gas port + Monolithic upper with QC barrels + Ambi Lower + Enhanced bolt / bolt carrier My comments are based upon 39 years of owning, shooting, tinkering with, and repairing AR15s. I know I've fired over 100,000 rounds through Colts alone. I couldn't begin to estimate the total number of rounds through all of the ARs that have passed through my hands. What do I own? Colt ... for my basic "duty grade" guns with a FSB requirements LMT ... for my "go to" requirements HK ... for my "because I like it" feelz Does Colt make great rifles? Absodamnlutely. Are they better than BCM/sons/dd? Hell no. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 7:12:46 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MGYSGT8541: Why put an A5 on it? Is something wrong with an H2 buffer? I have an A5. It doesn't do a lot better. Certainly not worth changing the whole buffer system out.. snake oil Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MGYSGT8541: Originally Posted By sowinskian: Just get an Sig 516 for like $1300, slap an A5 system on it, put in an ambi charging handle, add an optic, GtG. Comes with ambi lower and adjustable gas block. What are you expecting the a5 to do? It’s an intermediate length buffer system, between rifle and carbine. It exists to expand the operational envelope. Not turn your gun into a magical talisman. |
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Posted: 7/3/2023 7:22:10 AM EDT
[#45]
The AR is a gun plumber’s gun. I buy Colts and call it a day. Not PSA cheap and not Gucci expensive. I can’t see putting $2600 into a utility rifle (before optics.)
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/3/2023 7:32:08 AM EDT
[#46]
I'd rather have three $800 rifles than one $2,500 rifle. If the $2500 rifle takes a crap, you have nothing left, with three, if one takes a crap you have two more.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2023 5:31:10 PM EDT
[#47]
As others have said, you really don't even need to pay $1,600 for a good AR. Buy stuff on sale. July 4th is a great time to find deals.
Recently purchased a complete Bravo Company lower for $299 from Primary Arms. It will go great with the upper I purchased directly from Bravo Company a couple of weeks ago for under $700. So I ended up with a complete BCM rifle for under $1,000. If I upgrade the lower with a LaRue trigger I'm under $1,100 and I'll have a solid AR from a reputable company with good quality parts, assembled entirely by BCM ... well I guess I did have to attach the upper to the lower.  Use the extra $500-600 on ammo, extra mags, a solid red dot (maybe a Holosun) and a sling. If you really have to spend $2,600, buy the BCM lower from PA, the BCM upper, an Aimpoint Pro ($450), a Geissele or LaRue trigger, a bunch of mags., a suppressor of your choice, a solid weapon light, a sling, 1000 rounds of ammo, and send whatever you have left to me for giving you such good advise. Want to go even cheaper? PSA has a stripped lower for $39 on sale right now. Add an Aeroprecision lower parts kit, an upgraded trigger and the stock of your choice. You will have a bunch of money left over to buy the upper of your choice. Will a $2,600 AR be a little nicer than a $1,600 AR (or the AR you put together for even less by buying smart)? Yes. Will it be better than an AR with all above extras you can add if you spend your dollars more carefully. Not to me. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:47:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: Respectfully, but emphatically, disagree. I've owned a SIGNIFICANT number of AR15s over the past 39 years. There is a difference between a PSA and BCM/Colt/Daniel Defense. Then there is a difference between BCM/Colt/DD and KAC/LMT. With PSA you get a sloppy budget gun without QA/QC and some questionable parts quality. With BCM/Colt/DD you pay 2x to 3x more than the PSA but you get quality parts and a high level of QA/QC. With KAC/LMT you get the high quality parts and high level of QA/QC coupled with INNOVATION. Innovation is what separates a $1200 Colt EPR from a $2300 LMT MARS. Using the LMT as an example: + Cryo treated barrel + Straight gas tube + 45degree gas port + Monolithic upper with QC barrels + Ambi Lower + Enhanced bolt / bolt carrier My comments are based upon 39 years of owning, shooting, tinkering with, and repairing AR15s. I know I've fired over 100,000 rounds through Colts alone. I couldn't begin to estimate the total number of rounds through all of the ARs that have passed through my hands. What do I own? Colt ... for my basic "duty grade" guns with a FSB requirements LMT ... for my "go to" requirements HK ... for my "because I like it" feelz |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/3/2023 11:49:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FB41: It gets you nothing more than a name. Buy an AR from PSA and use the savings on ammo, training, and accessories. Sounds right to me.
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Posted: 8/3/2023 11:55:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Arfcom. Where people will actually tell you PSA is the same quality as LWRC and HK....
My money? I buy a quality weapon like HK, LWRC, DD, G, KAC.... Your money? Id buy two quality weapons. Im not bagging on PSA, but Im not delusional enough to think that since they have ok guns they rank anywhere near high end weapons. |
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