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Posted: 3/20/2024 6:30:34 AM EDT
I was reading up on a thread recently and was wondering why the hate for SOTAR? SOTAR yt channel seems to be a pretty decent source of information on basics to building/assembling ar15’s. I wouldn't mind attending a SOTAR class and learn more of what is involved in building an AR.
I already know there’s going to be at least one person that doesn’t like what others like, I’m just curious as to why some members don’t like SOTAR. I figured this is a relevant post to ar basics, but if not, please move to the proper location. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:30:42 AM EDT
[#1]
My guess would be that his approach is overkill and that his circle is cultish in that if you dare question any of it, they’ll attack you and ban you from any groups that you may be taking part in.
There was some kind of hubbub a while back about him holding a class at a LE site that was involved in some bullshit, but I can’t remember the deets. I’ve learned a lot from Chad. He’s a gunsmith and those who are into gunsmith levels of scrutiny are into his approach. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/20/2024 10:40:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tiribulus]
[#2]
There seems to be what in my view are two extremes when it comes to Chad.
There are those who say that his level of surgical (and expensive) precision is both unnecessary and FAAAR beyond the reach of 95% of AR owners, making his information useless. I think the former is true, but the latter doesn't necessarily follow. Yes, very few have the means and or ability to analyze, diagnose and prescribe to his level of rigid precision. Nor do they need to, which is part of the rub. However, how does that reality dictate that there is nothing to learn and no useful, AND interesting information to be gained from him? Then you have a (I think) smaller faction that proclaims anything or anyone who falls short of his level of rigid precision is a second, or third class AR owner at best, and bubba-fied pretender at worst. I don't know why either one of those has to be true. There are clearly many millions of AR owners who will never approach his level of knowledge and rigid precision, who nonetheless not only get along just fine, but many of them have truly impressive and practical knowledge, experience and expertise themselves. I watch his channel because I find it interesting and informative even if I'll never be able, or need to do much of what he demonstrates and recommends. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 1:17:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#3]
IMHO... it is kinda like a purist auto guy v. I have a "insert car model" person.
They both will get the job done. But, I have learned specifics I did not know prior to watching his videos. And I will continue to watch videos that interest me. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/20/2024 1:23:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Place holder lol!
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/20/2024 10:43:06 PM EDT
[#5]
I love watching his videos, I’ve learned a lot from them.
My opinion is simply, that not everyone cares as much as others do. Some people are just fine having an Accord, they don’t need a 90’s S Class Mercedes (the most perfectly built & over-engineered car that’s ever existed). |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:16:44 AM EDT
[#6]
the M4 TDP allows for 2 parts to be MIM, one is the bolt catch, the other is.........................
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:52:30 AM EDT
[#7]
The big problem with his videos are the rejection of used parts that do not fall into manufacturing tolerances. For those that do not understand what I just said let me explain.
He is using gauges to check if dimensions are in manufacturing tolerances. These dimensions can be found on the prints the military issues for contracts for making the M16 family. These dimensions are not what the military uses to reject the parts on used guns as being serviceable. I have watched him take used AR15 rifles and start gauging them to manufacturing tolerances and saying parts have to be replaced if they fall outside those tolerances. This is plain stupid. If a part is made at one end of the manufacturing tolerance, the part is accepted to be used in new firearm production. But as soon as the gun is shot any that part might wear enough to be outside the manufacturing tolerance and thus be out of spec for a new part. That does not mean it needs to be thrown away. If the military did that they would be replacing perfectly good guns hourly. The military has a set of gauges specifically for rejecting parts for further use. SOTAR guy does not measure the parts on used guns to the military's rejection dimension criteria. He will tell you that you need a new part because it does not meet manufacturing tolerances for new parts. Testing new parts I have no issue with him but, its his replace every thing not in new part specifications on used guns that I take issue with. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:14:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TGWLDR]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OTDR: the M4 TDP allows for 2 parts to be MIM, one is the bolt catch, the other is......................... Kind of out of left field here (?), but...... •bolt catch •magazine catch bar |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:15:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: OTDR]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGWLDR: Kind of out of left field here (?), but...... •bolt catch •magazine catch bar SOTAR was posting pics yesterday of a cut in half Bolt Catch showing it was MIM, making a big fuss about it being MIM and thus was rejecting it simply because it was MIM, when MIM is acceptable. Just more of his drama. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:27:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OTDR: SOTAR was posting pics yesterday of a cut in half Bolt Catch showing it was MIM, making a big fuss about it being MIM and thus was rejecting it simply because it was MIM, when MIM is acceptable. Just more of his drama. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OTDR: Originally Posted By TGWLDR: Kind of out of left field here (?), but...... •bolt catch •magazine catch bar SOTAR was posting pics yesterday of a cut in half Bolt Catch showing it was MIM, making a big fuss about it being MIM and thus was rejecting it simply because it was MIM, when MIM is acceptable. Just more of his drama. Gotcha. Tracking now. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:29:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Some of his info is good
I’ve also been mixing MOBIL 1 grease and oil for years, but he uses WAY TOO MUCH in this video  Attached File Home Brew AR Lube & AR Lubrication |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:59:40 PM EDT
[#12]
He makes a big stink about some stuff that doesn’t matter.
Then he also has very good content. Something like his measuring gas efficiency people write off as bullshit, but then we see something like GT’s PSA video where the rifle died because of out of spec gas efficiency. Yes, gas rings are cheap but do you know how many military soldiers keep extra gas rings on them? Anything on the Internet should be taken with a grain of salt. He does more good than harm by teaching people how to work on their own shit instead of rely on others. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 2:02:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OTDR]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: He makes a big stink about some stuff that doesn’t matter. Then he also has very good content. Something like his measuring gas efficiency people write off as bullshit, but then we see something like GT’s PSA video where the rifle died because of out of spec gas efficiency. Yes, gas rings are cheap but do you know how many military soldiers keep extra gas rings on them? Anything on the Internet should be taken with a grain of salt. He does more good than harm by teaching people how to work on their own shit instead of rely on others. Thats because it is bull shit. Worn out gas rings, worn out gas tubes aren't gas efficiency, those are broken parts. Here is the US Army's report on BCG Gas Efficiency. All those pin gauges he sells, First green, first yellow, 2nd red, its all BS. Page 39, read it for yourself. Further, Functioning is quite insensitive to variations in leakage area, vent area, https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/AD0731218.pdf |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 2:36:33 PM EDT
[#14]
My issue is that all he does is gauge against the print (sometimes not the right print, or not the right gauge, but later), and goes on about why it is going to cause trouble later.
From a qualitative point of view, it could be good information, "A small diameter bolt tail could cause leaks . . " From a quantitative point of view, which in this case is the important one, he does not tell us much. "How small does the bolt tail need to be to actually cause trouble?" Further, it's all well and good to measure everything on a new part and bash brands that are 0.0005" outside the tolerance zone, but it is a critical dimension? Major? Minor? Is it still inside the service wear limits? (not ideal for new parts, but it tells you something.) What I would rather see is the service limit information, what the maximum diameter and oblongness of the trigger and hammer pivot holes is? Just how deep can the groove inside the upper charging handle slot be? Is there a gage for magazine lips? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 2:51:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tiribulus]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: He makes a big stink about some stuff that doesn’t matter. Then he also has very good content. Something like his measuring gas efficiency people write off as bullshit, but then we see something like GT’s PSA video where the rifle died because of out of spec gas efficiency. Yes, gas rings are cheap but do you know how many military soldiers keep extra gas rings on them? Anything on the Internet should be taken with a grain of salt. He does more good than harm by teaching people how to work on their own shit instead of rely on others. Agreed on all counts. Let's be honest here too folks. Success on YouTube is measured in followers and likes. Chad has a tendency to sensationalize because it gets eyes on his channel. In my considered opinion. Nobody can know as much as he clearly does and NOT know that something you're saying is... "overstated."  In spite of all of that, I enjoy his channel and find it useful. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:05:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Interesting. Surprised I haven't come across his YT channel before.
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:19:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: Interesting. Surprised I haven't come across his YT channel before. Member here as well. ^^^ |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:37:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats:Tortilla Flats? Forgive my brazen momentary hijack, but am I getting the reference right to the REALLY small Arizona town in the Superstitions, outside of Apache Junction? |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:19:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tortilla-flats]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiribulus: Forgive my brazen momentary hijack, but am I getting the reference right to the REALLY small Arizona town in the Superstitions, outside of Apache Junction? Someone else asked me about it recently and I realized my Dad may have been influenced by a John Steinbeck novel of the same name. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:28:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OTDR]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lysanderxiii: What I would rather see is the service limit information, what the maximum diameter and oblongness of the trigger and hammer pivot holes is? Just how deep can the groove inside the upper charging handle slot be? Is there a gage for magazine lips? Actually there is and the US Army don't even know how to use it correct. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 5:02:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Way more information than you need, but still good to know.
It's a free country you can watch as much or as little as you want, until he gets banned because "Guns Bad". |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 5:19:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OTDR: Actually there is and the US Army don't even know how to use it correct. So they know their shit when it comes to gas system sealing but they’re also so dumb they can’t use a gauge? Encouraging outlook you have there. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 5:29:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: So they know their shit when it comes to gas system sealing but they’re also so dumb they can’t use a gauge? Encouraging outlook you have there. lol, I agree! |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 12:25:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: j3_]
[#24]
I have watched a lot of youtube AR videos. All I can say is people need to research what is said in a lot of them instead of taking it as fact.
Also if you break a spec cast trigger and bolt catch it is pretty much going to look uneven and grainy at the break. There are also other parts like the sight aperture and A2 rear sight base that can be mim. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 12:40:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Can’t answer your question as I enjoy his content and learned some stuff for sure. There seem to be some similarities between his and Paul Herrell’s detractors. The painstaking shot by shot chronograph readings are too much for some impatient people. I love the thoroughness. It’s not hard to skip ahead if it’s too tedious.
It’s impossible for me to hold a BCG without looking at the gas key staking now. 
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 8:06:43 PM EDT
[#26]
The video of him slathering on grease like shaving cream lead to my negative opinion of him. Never watched another video after that. The internet is full of ignorance and fools.
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USA
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Posted: 4/12/2024 2:54:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jbrew73: The video of him slathering on grease like shaving cream lead to my negative opinion of him. Never watched another video after that. The internet is full of ignorance and fools. I'm pretty sure that was a troll video |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:01:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OTDR]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JJL0325: I'm pretty sure that was a troll video lol, no it was NOT! Believe it or not he learned that from trainer at Colt. I read about it once in a AR-15 Magazine where Colt armorer was describing it to a T just like his video. About 8 years ago. |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 5:23:29 PM EDT
[#29]
I don't get the hate. He's super detailed in what is likely things that won't make a difference to anything, but has tons of esoteric knowledge. Who cares that he overlubes the bcg? Yeah, some guys actually change the oil in the 22" pushmower every 100 hours too.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/12/2024 10:41:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brawnydog:Who cares that he overlubes the bcg? Ok, but this is WAY outta hand. Nobody's convincing me that there's any advantage to drowning your BCG like that and I already said that I watch and enjoy his channel overall. Attached File |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 11:00:24 PM EDT
[#31]
LAV did the same with CLP to prove a point.
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Posted: 4/13/2024 11:25:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Colt653]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karankawa: LAV did the same with CLP to prove a point. Larry went over the top to make a point he doesn’t recommend dunking it listen to what he says  The Myth of Over Lubrication |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/13/2024 4:21:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OTDR]
[#33]
No one is saying the gun won't run if OVER lubed? Of course it will run, and will run all over "you" when lubed like that.
No gun needs to be lubed like that SOTAR video lol! |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:15:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Colt653: Larry went over the top to make a point he doesn’t recommend dunking it listen to what he says  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9bOT_d60LMI agree. I have used various products and experimented with them - doing things like firing a lot of rounds without cleaning or adding lube just to see how my guns will work under stress. The only issue I've had with 'over-lubrication' is oil dripping out of the weapon or getting on my hands (which isn't ideal, but not a disaster at the range). There was only one time that I under-lubed: in the army, I did a non-combat deployment to a desert. This was a pointless endeavor where we didn't even have any small-arms ammo, and we mostly sat in tents playing cards and did some very-occasional vehicle maneuvering. After a few weeks of diligently trying to keep sand out of my weapon, I gave up and just removed all the lube so I could just shake out the dry sand. I did carry a bottle of CLP in case things changed, but they didn't. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 7:53:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiribulus: Ok, but this is WAY outta hand. Nobody's convincing me that there's any advantage to drowning your BCG like that and I already said that I watch and enjoy his channel overall. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2275/IMG_0420_png-3165235.JPG The only thing I have ever greased like that was the bolt & track on a M242. GMD is your friend. |
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