I previously made a post regarding Upgrading a G2 Recon. It was a rifle I ordered back in June, and about the time it came in, but before I could cancel the order, ScopeList put the Remington Defense R10 on sale for over $1000 off. My curiosity got the better of me and I ordered one the next day. Side note: I called to “Make an offer” and Tyler was having absolutely none of my haggling efforts. After 15 minutes I hung up in absolute defeat and placed the order online. When Tyler called the next day to verify my FFL there was a certain smirk in his voice, but he was a nice guy and we had a good laugh.

Starting with the exterior, the most noticeable difference is the R10 has fully ambidextrous controls and built in QD Sling mounts in the lower receiver. It also has a removable trigger guard where the G2 has a trigger guard that is machined into the lower.



I was pleased to see that the right sided bolt release can also be used to lock the bolt back. It’s also in a perfect position for doing so. I wear a size 7.5 surgical glove so my hands are about average size and I have no problem reaching controls on either side.



Next I decided to take off the handguard. Removal was simple, involving removing one cross bolt and tapered nut. The rail slipped right off. On removal I noticed that the rail fit into a machined recess in the upper, similar to the Geissele Super Duty rails. This is a great feature as it eliminates the possibility of rotation and allows perfect alignment of the rail to the upper.


Closeup of the barrel nut. The castle nut portion of my armorer’s wrench seems like it would work to remove it, but I wish there was a little more engagement. For that reason I chickened out removing the barrel nut.



Picture of barrel profiles. I was excited to see the R10 uses a Rifle Length Gas System. The G2 Recon uses a mid-length 416 stainless barrel. The R10 has a nitrided 5R steel barrel.



The R10 uses a pinned gas block. Also, after picking up the G2 block I noticed it is incredibly light. I’m pretty sure it’s aluminum.


The R10 gas block also uses a pin that slides into a machined slot in the barrel to provide perfect alignment. This is an awesome touch.


Moving back, I noticed the stock on the R10 wouldn’t fully collapse. I removed the stock and counted 8, that’s right EIGHT adjustment positions!



I began to get excited! Remington got smart and used an A5 length receiver extension and I could easily swap M4 style buffers until my heart’s content!!


...Nope. It was worse than I could have imagined. Some evil bipedal goat demon at Remington decided using an A5 outer length receiver extension with an M4 inner length. I have exes that aren’t this cruel.


I decided to weigh the short buffer to see if it was standard LR308 affair and it is. I also weighed the RAHG rail. It’s significantly heavier than the SLR on the G2 and is about an ounce heavier than the crappy 9” quad rail AND barrel nut that came on the Recon. Granted it’s 15” long. And it feels SIGNIFICANTLY more robust than the SLR. This is definitely a rail that can take some abuse.


Both rifles have staked castle nuts but use different methods of staking. The R10 uses the screw type staking.


The G2 uses impact staking. Neither one is particularly impressive but appear to be functional.


Both BCG’s appear to be the same, but the R10 has a slightly different extractor.


Both rifles use the same basic charging handle, but the R10 has a steel extended latch. To prevent excessive wear from a steel latch against an aluminum receiver, the R10 has a steel insert pinned in place. Not sure how necessary it is but it’s certainly a nice touch.


Disappointingly, the R10 came with a non—mount blackout flash hider, so I removed it and put a 51T on. I was pleased to find nothing more than a crush washer and some torque holding it in place, so removal was quick and easy. No excessive Rocksett here!!


Overall, the R10 appears to be a significant upgrade from the G2. It has a lot of well thought-out features that are typically seen in premium rifles and accessories. I haven’t shot it yet but I’m excited to see how the two compare. Obligatory side by side pic.

That was a really good write up.   Can you follow up once you get some trigger time in?

Thanks! My plan is to shoot them both the weekend after Christmas. I have a 4.5-14x40 Leupold Mk4 and a Lead Sled I plan on using to see what kind of accuracy they’re both capable of. I don’t reload so will be using FGMM and probably some Hornady ELD-M that I have lying around. The R10 uses a nitrided CHF 5R barrel and I’m excited to see what kind of groups I can get from it.

Nice job.  Not long and wordy, but to the point and informative.  I hope you enjoy your new purchase.  thanks.

Is Remington going to make these Defender 10 models available for public consumption anytime soon?

That buffer tube situation is so perfectly Remington it hurts.

But overall, it does appear to be better.

Thank you.  The R10 is sort of a holy grail rifle rifle for me.  The upgrades v. G2 are very interesting.  Thanks again.  The Remington Defense R10 was likely a government (IC contract) overrun.

That’s what I’m thinking, too. I didn’t notice until I proofread my post that my serial number is 58, so this is probably a fairly early gun. It’s definitely a step up from the G2. At $2000 I think it’s reasonably priced. After a new rail, charging handle, gas block, etc., I have nearly that much in the G2 but still don’t have ambi controls, or nitrided CHF RLGS barrel. I’d never pay $3500 for one, but at this price I think it’s a good deal and very competitive. We’ll see if I still feel that way after a few thousand rounds.

Excellent pictoral review.  Looks like this receiver set is kinda DPMS AR10 2.2gen or something.  The DPMS side just copied the original LAR Manufacturing design, then Remington refined it for their .mil contracts.  I kinda liked the integrated winter trigger, but I can see the reason for wanting to accept aftermarket solutions.  Remingtons version may have shaved some weight as well.

Not a fan of the handguard design anti-rotation tab.  Great for .mil contracts that order parts by the millions, terrible for the aftermarket.  The SLR handguard method is a better solution, indexing off the dust cover pin.  They just needed a custom length dust cover pin, yes its another unique part but its a $5 part vs excluding basically all handguards out there unless you want a big unsightly gap in your upper.  Noone is gonna make an aftermarket handguard for this thing, we still only have a handful for the popular DPMS GII and all that usually requires is slightly modifying a barrel nut.

Finally reasonable gas lengths.  Get a clue DPMS.

I thought the R10s came with adjustable gas?

Is the lower forged?

Upper and lower are both forged 7075 according to this article from Tactical-Life.

You make a good point about the rail indexing method basically killing any aftermarket rail availability. However, this gun reportedly was made specifically for .mil and .gov contracts and use and probably wasn’t ever meant for civilian consumption. From an aftermarket/customizable standpoint it’s a terrible idea. From a functionality and fool-proof assembly standpoint, it serves a purpose and does it well.

The SLR rail actually doesn’t index off of the dust cover rod. There’s a notch in the rail for it, but that mostly keeps the rod from walking out. It actually uses a little key that fits over the gas tube and between the rail and upper to prevent rotation. I was surprised to see that when I installed it. Not the most robust way I’ve ever seen, but I’ll reserve judgement until I put it to use.


As far as adjustable gas, the updated models come with it, and the older ERASR model came with it, but the carbine did not. Here’s a video of the updated model that has a new M-Lok rail, adjustable gas, and what appears to be two cross bolts through the barrel nut rather than just one.


Overall, I kind of like the older style handguard. It’s not as OAF as the new M-Lok but it kind of reminds me of the old Geissele Mk1 rails.

Finally got a chance to shoot them at my parents’ land so it was nothing in depth. I didn’t even have a sight on them. I just shot them standing while leaned against a pole. This allowed me to tune the gas block on the G2 and get a feel for how they shot.

I shot the R-10 first with a Griffin Armament Recce 7 suppressor. 10 rounds and no malfunctions, ejected around 1:30.

Then I shot the G2 with the gas block fully open. The recoil was noticeably harsher. The R-10 was more of a quick push while the G2 was a quick, hard kick. It stovepiped on the 3rd shot. I began adjusting it down until it wouldn’t fully cycle. I opened the block up one click and it would eject but not chamber the next round. Opened it one more and it cycled, so then verified it would lock open on an empty mag. It was ejecting around 1:30-2:00 at this point. I then fired 5 rounds with no malfunctions and then picked up the R-10 and did the same. Recoil was basically the same at this point. Removing the mags revealed the next rounds were about equally dirty between the two.

I didn’t get any pictures or shoot unsuppressed just because I didn’t want to annoy the neighbors too bad. Dad and I will be taking them both to the range on Sunday to do some accuracy testing. I’d like to find a way to quantify recoil but don’t know of anything simple. If anyone has any requests for pictures or testing just let me know.

Sounds good.

Let us know how it works out.

Do you happen to know the gas block ID?  If the G2 gas block is aluminum, I might need to get a steel one.

Gas block IDs for both are 0.75”. I haven’t tried putting a magnet to the G2 block to confirm but I can do that when I get home tonight just to make sure.

Even if it’s aluminum, I wouldn’t worry about erosion unless you’re putting 1000’s of rounds down range each year. There are several AR’s nowdays that come with aluminum gas blocks and they hold up just fine for low round count guns. If you’re a high volume shooter an inexpensive steel gas block would be a simple and easy upgrade, though.

Just checked. It does not attract a magnet, so I’m pretty confident it’s anodized aluminum.

Finally got a chance to take them to the range. We were a little pressed for time so it wasn’t as in depth as it should have been. The main goal was to see what kind of groups they were capable of. Using a Mark 4 4.5-14x40 scope and FGMM 168gr, the R10 wouldn’t do better than about 3 inches at 100 yards suppressed. When I finally gave up on it, I noticed the scope mount wasn’t torqued down. Brain fart on my part. It wasn’t running reliably suppressed so I went ahead and took it off and moved to the G2. It grouped a little over 1 inch. At the end, my buddy and I decided to do some mag dumps both suppressed and unsuppressed. The G2 is on the left, R10 on the right. My buddy made a little montage out of it. I was surprised to see how much bigger the muzzle flash is from the single port Griffin minimalist brake vs. the two port AAC brake on the R10. As you’ll see, the R10 ran great with no can but wouldn’t make it more than a few rounds with the can. I have ordered a Vltor A5 to try an H3 buffer to see if I can get it running better. I also emailed Remington about getting the adjustable gas block for the R10 but have received no response in about 2 weeks now. I’d rather not use an aftermarket adjustable block if I don’t have to because I’d like to keep the pinned block it came with. Once the A5 comes in I’ll try for groups again.

FYI my 18" intermediate gas A5 GII runs great with an H1, armalite spring and adjustable gas.  I got it to run with a standard carbine weight buffer, but it felt smoother with the H1 and another click of gas opened. The H2 was maybe a tiiiiiiiny bit better, but I feel why get a lightweight platform with reduced mass BCG if your just gonna add that reciprocating weight back in the buffer.

Without adjustable gas you may need the H3 tho.

Yeah I’m kind of disappointed I’m going to have to add a bunch of reciprocating weight to make it work. Especially since it’s with Remington’s own suppressor. Oh well. I’m hoping an H3 and a JP 308 rifle spring will fix it.

Two weeks ago I ordered a JP308 spring and A5 receiver extension from Optics Planet and as usual, I got an email stating the A5 would ship in 3-4 weeks. So far I’ve received everything else, but I got tired of waiting and decided to order a Kaw Valley Precision heavy buffer (5.6oz per their website) along with their extra power 308/PCC carbine spring from Joe Bob Outfitters. I paid an extra $3 for expedited shipping and it was on my doorstep 2 days later. I really hate Optics Planet.

Rant aside, I also decided to try this because I didn’t want to mess up the castle but staking on the R10. I will put the A5 on the G2. The stock DPMS style short buffer weighs 3.9oz per their website and my scale confirmed.


The KVP 5.6oz buffer actually weighed a little more than advertised. KVP mentions a +/- 5% weight on their specs, and I was pleased to see mine weighed a little on the heavier side.


The KVP XP spring is about an inch shorter than the stock spring, but it is noticeably stiffer. KVP doesn’t list any specs for it like the Tubbs Flatwire springs do, but you can definitely tell it’s stiffer and when packaged with the buffer at Joe Bob’s it was only an extra $10, so I figured it would be worth a try.


Overall I think this will be enough to slow things down and create a reliable suppressed rifle. If not, I’ll try a Slash heavy buffer next.

When you go to the range, also take your factory buffer and spring.
My Recon would not cycle with a Sprinco Orange and Slash CAR10 buffer.
I had go back to stock spring & buffer.  I will try a Tubbs 308 spring with the stock buffer.

Thanks for the heads up. I hadn’t considered that but will definitely bring both in case I need to mix and match.

Could you replace the R10 upper receiver with a regular G2 to get rid of the anti rotation cut out for the handguard?  If so, you could then choose a commercially available handguard.

Part of the benefit of the A5 is that it has multiple weights so you get the 'dead blow hammer' effect when resetting the bolt.

Went to the range to test out the KVP heavy buffer and spring combo. I fired a total of 90 rounds, 85 of which were suppressed, and had zero malfunctions. It’s still what I would consider over-gassed, but it’s reliable at least, so as long as it stays that way I won’t put an adjustable gas block on there.

I put my Mk4 4.5-14x40 back on it and torqued the mount to 40in-lbs. it’s amazing how much of a difference that makes! The first 5 rounds were unsuppressed to get on paper at 50 yards and make sure it still cycled. The ammo was PPU 168gr PSP. Nothing special. I then fired 5 rounds at 100 yards suppressed to make sure I was still on paper, and then dumped the last 10 rounds into the berm just to make sure it was going to run. Unsuppressed, brass ejects around 4 o’clock. Suppressed, it’s still around 1:30, but it’s at least functioning.

This is a picture of 4 of the first 5 rounds fired which were unsuppressed. As you can see, the head is in pretty good shape, no primer flow around the firing pin, no harsh ejector marks. The next picture shows that the mouths are a little beaten up, but not bad.



Here are some pictures of brass from suppressed shooting. The first is a FGMM 168gr case. I’m guessing the Federal brass is a little stronger than the PPU brass, because almost all of the PPU had bent mouths, but only some of the Federal was bent. Overall, neither brand showed primer flow or cratering, harsh ejector marks, or harsh extractor marks.


The two on the right in the next two pics are Federal, and the others are PPU.



The first group I shot after getting close to zeroed was FGMM 168gr. The flier was the 5th shot. Right as I shot there was a huge gust of wind that hit me, so I’m going to blame it on that. I went back and shot another 5 rounds to make a 10 round group, but I guess I forgot to take a photo. Anyway, I’m quite pleased with this group.


Next was Hornady 168gr BTHP Match. Not as great as the FGMM but I’ll take it. I am admittedly not the best shot, so the gun is likely more accurate than I am.


I then shot 5 more rounds. At this point I’m starting to get a little rushed for time and the next groups are all 10 rounds as I didn’t have time to keep walking down range after every 5 shots.


Next was 10 rounds of Hornady 178gr BTHP Match.


Final group was 10 rounds Hornady ELD-M 168gr.


Overall I’m happy with the accuracy. I didn’t expect sniper rifle accuracy out of it, so ~1” 5-shot groups and ~2” 10-shot groups is plenty accurate for anything I’ll ever use this gun for. It’s likely capable of better in the right hands and better conditions. Wind was 10-15mph out of the West, which is the direction I was facing, with gusts up to 30mph.

After I finished shooting for accuracy, I mounted and zeroed my Leupold Mk6 1-6x. I know it’s a bit dated at this point, but I really do love this scope. I went out to the 600yd range and rang some steel out to 500yds.

In light of keeping this a comparison, the R10 was $2000, plus $120 for the 51T brake, and $60 for the buffer and spring to make it reliable. That comes to $2180.

The G2 was $1300, plus $110 for the SLR gas block and $225 for the SLR rail. It came with a mount-capable muzzle device so I’m not going to add the price of the Griffin brake I put on. That comes to $1635, for a difference of $545 between the two.

Overall, I’d say the R10 is worth that since you get a barrel that is CHF, nitrided, 5R and RLGS, fully ambidextrous lower, decent-but-proprietary rail, pinned gas block, and mil-spec diameter receiver extension (even if it is a cruel tease), and all of this is from the factory. If you don’t shoot suppressed, there’s no need for $60 worth of add-ons. That being said, at its normal price of $3000-3500, it’s a hard pass. If the updated version with M-Lok rail and adjustable gas end up selling for ~$2000, I’d say it should be on the short list if anyone looking for a .308 that can withstand hard use.

Cool comparison

Any chance you could get overall weight on both?

Are you wanting total weights with optics? Or just the rifles?

Yes. I swapped them out and all ambi controls on the R10 lower function perfectly with the G2 upper, including being able to lock the bolt back with the right sided catch. After playing with it for a few minutes I think that’s actually the winning combo. The G2 upper is noticeably lighter than the R10. It literally feels like an AR15. It’s a shame Freedom Group our so much effort and research into the G2 and then stopped just short of what it should have been.

That’s pretty cool.

To the pit.

Maybe you should pretend you're in a tech forum and if you have a problem with Ziara take it to PM or the pit. If you go to the pit please make sure and PM me a link

Taken to PM.

To the pit then.

WHY the hell can't Remington or DPMS sell the damn receiver sets??

Love the R10, but not 2k love it.

With the demise of DPMS, anyone have any luck finding spare BCG for either G2 or R10??

I spoke with Remington yesterday.

None in stock and they don't know when (or if) they will have anymore.

Pretty shitty of Remington to allow this rifle to still be sold knowing full well they might not be able to fix defective rifles.

https://store.gravelagency.com/en/pieces-de-remplacement-du-manufacturier-oem/dpms/g-303765-dpms-g2-bolt-carrier-assembly.html

Found one!

That price is ridiculous

Canadian dollars!  Multiply by .73!

I doubt they would ship to you, anyway.  Canadian military and LE only, I believe.

Best bet might be to buy a whole rifle for parts!

I have Two G2 Recons.  Love them, but by the time I found out that DPMS/ Remington had jumped ship, it was too late to purchase spare parts.

If anyone knows where I can get cam pins, ejectors and ejector springs/ pins or anything else please e-mail me through the site.

Brownell’s has firing pins and extractors as does MidwayUSA.  I don’t know how long they will last.

It appears no other parts are available at this time.

DPMS is not worth the call, they have no G2 parts to sell to us!

I consider this whole move by them REMLIN 2!  It’s a long story.

Good Luck G2 owners!