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Page AR-15 » Rimfire and Pistol Calibers
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Posted: 2/18/2024 11:08:18 PM EDT
Recently I built an AR based 9mm PCC. While going down the rabbit hole of buffer configurations (thanks blowback9.com), I read the relationship of lighter recoil with shorter barrels. I am referring to blowback operated, so gas system length, RDB, etc do not apply.

Now, I’m not an engineer, but I did stay at some motel once before, and what I know about the laws of physics is basically everything action has an equal and opposite reaction, blah, blah blah.

So given a carbine weighing X, a recoil system with a given mass on a spring with a given rate, a set amount of travel, the felt recoil will be the remainder of the energy produced from the expulsion of the projectile minus that dissipated by the recoil system over time. F=ma, right?

Upon ignition the bullet is expelled forward under pressure; the case rearward, delayed by the mass. The bullet’s mass and explosive energy of the propellant charge is the opposite end of the equation. Is the time  spent by the projectile in the barrel really part of the equation for an appreciable difference in felt recoil?



I suppose as long as the bullet is accelerating it would be. The time factor of the bullet under acceleration is the opposite of using more mass and stiffer springs (or hydraulic dampers) to disperse energy over time for less felt recoil.

Just thinking out loud. Thanks!



Link Posted: 2/18/2024 11:34:27 PM EDT
[#1]
My thought? Not science by any stretch but..

Longer barrel, longer time pressure is trapped, faster bolt speed increasing felt recoil? Versus short barrel, letting off pressure much faster.. energy wasted in muzzle flash
Link Posted: 2/18/2024 11:38:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BDA:
My thought? Not science by any stretch but..

Longer barrel, longer time pressure is trapped, faster bolt speed increasing felt recoil? Versus short barrel, letting off pressure much faster.. energy wasted in muzzle flash
View Quote



That was pretty much the epiphany I had while writing the post… epiphany.gif failed to load
Link Posted: 2/19/2024 10:59:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BDA:
My thought? Not science by any stretch but..

Longer barrel, longer time pressure is trapped, faster bolt speed increasing felt recoil? Versus short barrel, letting off pressure much faster.. energy wasted in muzzle flash
View Quote


My take as well ^^^
Link Posted: 2/19/2024 12:05:03 PM EDT
[#4]
A more complete treatment of the subject can be found at the link below.  In particular, in the text at column 3, line 65 through column 5, line 10.
https://ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/9146069

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.
Link Posted: 2/19/2024 1:00:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SecondAmend:
A more complete treatment of the subject can be found at the link below.  In particular, in the text at column 3, line 65 through column 5, line 10.
https://ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/9146069

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.
View Quote



Good info, thanks for posting that!
Link Posted: 2/19/2024 4:29:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MJ11B4P:



Good info, thanks for posting that!
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MJ11B4P:
Originally Posted By SecondAmend:
A more complete treatment of the subject can be found at the link below.  In particular, in the text at column 3, line 65 through column 5, line 10.
https://ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/9146069

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.



Good info, thanks for posting that!

You are very welcome.
Link Posted: 2/22/2024 6:43:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By s4s4u:


My take as well ^^^
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By s4s4u:
Originally Posted By BDA:
My thought? Not science by any stretch but..

Longer barrel, longer time pressure is trapped, faster bolt speed increasing felt recoil? Versus short barrel, letting off pressure much faster.. energy wasted in muzzle flash


My take as well ^^^


Mine as well


Would be interesting for someone to do a test if a couple muzzle devices at 16" and bare
Then cut back 1" until bullet sticks out of barrel
On SBR ofcourse

Model after the muzzle break tests to see how much it pushes the rig back with each length
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