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Precision Shooting With an Aimpoint: Range Report (Page 3 of 3)
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Originally Posted By Maineyack:
Any chance of you elaborating a bit more on the 55 grain Sierra BlitzKing load that you used back in July? I know it was a while back. Load to approximately 3000-3050 fps from a 20" barreled AR-15 using VV powders. And if I might ask, what bench rest setup do you use? I ask because I'm looking to upgrade from my rather flimsy Caldwell Steady Rest NXT. About half way down the page And while I have your ear what trigger(s) do use, prefer? Single stage: JP Enterprises. Two-stage: Geissele. Also, what Krieger were you using back in July? They're a bit pricey for me right now but I can always day dream. 24" VarMatch with 5.56 Match chamber, 1:7.7" twist. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
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Would you be able to shoot the same group sizes shooting at a target with a 2" black circle, where the red dot can will block the target circle? You can hold the 4moa red dot (should be 4" at 100yds) in the 6" black circle of the target easily. How would it be if you were blocking the target circle with the red dot?
Great shooting! I like to read your posts, I like the way you think. |
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Originally Posted By hocketrat:
Would you be able to shoot the same group sizes shooting at a target with a 2" black circle, where the red dot can will block the target circle? You can hold the 4moa red dot (should be 4" at 100yds) in the 6" black circle of the target easily. How would it be if you were blocking the target circle with the red dot? Great shooting! I like to read your posts, I like the way you think. How about, no dot at all? 
Here’s a little demonstration of the “practical accuracy” obtainable when using an Aimpoint with a 4 MOA dot. For this exercise, I used a 14.5” chrome lined, NATO chambered carbine. Shooting was done from the prone supported position. From a distance of 50 yards, I fired ten quick shots at an FBI “Q” target. The results . . . ten “bullets in the brain pan, squish!” 
The 10-shot group has an extreme spread of 1.18”, which at 50 yards is equivalent to 2.26 MOA; far smaller than the 4 MOA dot on the Aimpoint. Again, this disproves the spouted nonsense that “practical accuracy” is not possible when using an Aimpoint with a 4 MOA dot. 
Remember, I have astigmatisms in both eyes, which make using an Aimpoint a bit of a challenge. I have no doubt, that someone with better eyesight could produce much better results. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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Originally Posted By hocketrat:
Would you be able to shoot the same group sizes shooting at a target with a 2" black circle, where the red dot can will block the target circle? You can hold the 4moa red dot (should be 4" at 100yds) in the 6" black circle of the target easily. How would it be if you were blocking the target circle with the red dot? Great shooting! I like to read your posts, I like the way you think. You have to have some point of reference to aim at. If the red dot completely obscures a target, and the target is that small, and there is nothing else to hold off of, then you're not going to group as well. You could likely print nice groups next to the dot. It comes down to the fact that the Aimpoint isn't for target shooting. I can't think of any realistic situation where you'd actually need to be shooting at a 2" black circle. Obviously the dot is going to fit within, or right over, any sort of real target (i.e., bad guy) within the ranges where you're holding directly on the target. Past that, you're holding over the target anyways and it doesn't matter what size the dot is. With Molon's example above, he has no dot, but he still has the rest of the target as a frame of reference - which, as shown, works great. ... if you use your rear BUIS peep to look through the Aimpoint the dot will appear to "round" slightly as opposed to "blobbing." Something to do with f/stop and field of view and how light travels (I dunno, it's some kinda science or magic, not sure which).
I noticed this as well a few weeks ago when messing around with my Aimpoint. I have a minor astigmatism. |
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Originally Posted By boltcatch:
Originally Posted By hocketrat:
Would you be able to shoot the same group sizes shooting at a target with a 2" black circle, where the red dot can will block the target circle? You can hold the 4moa red dot (should be 4" at 100yds) in the 6" black circle of the target easily. How would it be if you were blocking the target circle with the red dot? Great shooting! I like to read your posts, I like the way you think. You have to have some point of reference to aim at. If the red dot completely obscures a target, and the target is that small, and there is nothing else to hold off of, then you're not going to group as well. You could likely print nice groups next to the dot. It comes down to the fact that the Aimpoint isn't for target shooting. I can't think of any realistic situation where you'd actually need to be shooting at a 2" black circle. Obviously the dot is going to fit within, or right over, any sort of real target (i.e., bad guy) within the ranges where you're holding directly on the target. Past that, you're holding over the target anyways and it doesn't matter what size the dot is. With Molon's example above, he has no dot, but he still has the rest of the target as a frame of reference - which, as shown, works great. ... if you use your rear BUIS peep to look through the Aimpoint the dot will appear to "round" slightly as opposed to "blobbing." Something to do with f/stop and field of view and how light travels (I dunno, it's some kinda science or magic, not sure which).
I noticed this as well a few weeks ago when messing around with my Aimpoint. I have a minor astigmatism. i zero my Aimpoint at the very top of the dot. For combat shots, a center hold is fine. If I need to take a precise shot or a shot that is on a target completely obscured by the dot, I place the very top of the dot on the impact point. |
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere training of the hands to work, but training of the mind to properly reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classed.php
General education should not be mere training of the hands to work, but training of the mind to properly reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classed.php
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Originally Posted By MRW:
i zero my Aimpoint at the very top of the dot. I should be so lucky as to be able to discern a distinct point that represents the top of the dot. Due to my astigmatism, the dot looks like a red amoeba. 
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By MRW:
i zero my Aimpoint at the very top of the dot. I should be so lucky as to be able to discern a distinct point that represents the top of the dot. Due to my astigmatism, the dot looks like a red amoeba. http://www.box.net/shared/static/lbqf07lo3i.bmp I have astigmatism in my shooting eye but it only bothers me when I shoot black iron sights. When I shoot a red dot or night sights it's fine. I can still shoot iron sights better than most clowns even with the bad eye. |
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Originally Posted By squirrell18:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By MRW:
i zero my Aimpoint at the very top of the dot. I should be so lucky as to be able to discern a distinct point that represents the top of the dot. Due to my astigmatism, the dot looks like a red amoeba. http://www.box.net/shared/static/lbqf07lo3i.bmp I have astigmatism in my shooting eye but it only bothers me when I shoot black iron sights. When I shoot a red dot or night sights it's fine. Oddly enough, when I shoot with iron sights, my astigmatism isn't as noticable. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By reelserious:
What kind of trigger on that gun? http://www.box.net/shared/static/qnx3vrom96.jpg Geissele. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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just used my PA micro(4moa) a couple days ago. Got a 4-1/8" group at 100yds. I have a stag Model2 stock, and was using xm193. No doubt the group will be sub 4" once I invest in match ammo. Also the dot i was using was 3" and it was on white paper with sun out. I could tell when the target was in the circle but not centered for 3 shots(sun was out, other 7 were when there was cloud cover). Oddly enough there were 3 shots bringing the group from 3.25" to 4 and 1/8". Could be coincedence, but Im willing to bet not. Dot size doesnt matter, the bullet will go wherever its sighted in to go in relation to the dot. its not a difficult concept to grasp.
Not really related, but I was suprised how much better my offhand shooting at 100yds was using the rds. followups were about 2x as fast. Edit - 11/15/10 Just shot this a couple days ago at 100 yds. Stag model2, Primary arms micro(4moa dot). 20shot group - 3-5/16" using ruler... American eagle Tactical AE223. 
edit, sorry for the shitty cell pics, its all i had on hand. |
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Originally Posted By reelserious:
This thread has actually inspired me to buy another aimpoint. You can never have too many Aimpoints. 
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else needs to post data.
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Originally Posted By Molon:
Oddly enough, when I shoot with iron sights, my astigmatism isn't as noticable. Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By squirrell18:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By MRW:
i zero my Aimpoint at the very top of the dot. I should be so lucky as to be able to discern a distinct point that represents the top of the dot. Due to my astigmatism, the dot looks like a red amoeba. http://www.box.net/shared/static/lbqf07lo3i.bmp I have astigmatism in my shooting eye but it only bothers me when I shoot black iron sights. When I shoot a red dot or night sights it's fine. Oddly enough, when I shoot with iron sights, my astigmatism isn't as noticable. The M2 dot looks like an amoeba to me as well. The Micro's dot is much, much cleaner for me. I'm not sure why the dot appears to be different between the models. I can say you shoot very damn well, deff the exception to the rule with an RDS. Best I can do is about a fist size group at 100 with 10 rounds. |
Free Dan TSX!
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Originally Posted By SecurityForcesmember:
The M2 dot looks like an amoeba to me as well. The Micro's dot is much, much cleaner for me. It's the opposite for me.  (but still eminently useful for its intended role).
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Originally Posted By Maineyack:
And if I might ask, what bench rest setup do you use? I ask because I'm looking to upgrade from my rather flimsy Caldwell Steady Rest NXT. 
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
This thread is making me want some type of reflex site. Although I've always been drawn to the TriPower. Any body using this? I like the chevron. On paper, they sounded great. I pre-ordered two of them before they were released. I ended up selling them and staying with Aimpoints. ... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By hocketrat:
Would you be able to shoot the same group sizes shooting at a target with a 2" black circle, where the red dot can will block the target circle? Do you shoot at a lot of 2" circular targets at 100 yards when using an Aimpoint in a self-dense scenario? .... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By Molon:
On paper, they sounded great. I pre-ordered two of them before they were released. I ended up selling them and staying with Aimpoints. ... Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
This thread is making me want some type of reflex site. Although I've always been drawn to the TriPower. Any body using this? I like the chevron. On paper, they sounded great. I pre-ordered two of them before they were released. I ended up selling them and staying with Aimpoints. ... They never did catch on too much, eh? And when I tried the trijicon reflex, for some reason I'd see that chevron double. If I ever see one again in a store, I want to try it again. I like the idea of those too, if it was a crisp chevron. I like not having batteries. Just one less thing to worry about. |
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
They never did catch on too much, eh? And when I tried the trijicon reflex, for some reason I'd see that chevron double. If I ever see one again in a store, I want to try it again. I like the idea of those too, if it was a crisp chevron. I like not having batteries. Just one less thing to worry about. Originally Posted By JJREA:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
This thread is making me want some type of reflex site. Although I've always been drawn to the TriPower. Any body using this? I like the chevron. On paper, they sounded great. I pre-ordered two of them before they were released. I ended up selling them and staying with Aimpoints. ... They never did catch on too much, eh? And when I tried the trijicon reflex, for some reason I'd see that chevron double. If I ever see one again in a store, I want to try it again. I like the idea of those too, if it was a crisp chevron. I like not having batteries. Just one less thing to worry about. I owned a couple a couple of the Trijicon Reflex sights and while the dot was more crisp than an Aimpoint for my eyes, the Reflex dot would wash-out when looking into a bright area from a darker location. .. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By Molon:
I should be so lucky as to be able to discern a distinct point that represents the top of the dot. Due to my astigmatism, the dot looks like a red amoeba. http://www.box.net/shared/static/lbqf07lo3i.bmp ... Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By MRW:
i zero my Aimpoint at the very top of the dot. I should be so lucky as to be able to discern a distinct point that represents the top of the dot. Due to my astigmatism, the dot looks like a red amoeba. http://www.box.net/shared/static/lbqf07lo3i.bmp ... The Trijicon RMR07 has the sharpest dot, for my astigmatismed eyes, of any of the red-dot sights that I've used so far. .. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
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In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By Molon: The Trijicon RMR07 has the sharpest dot, for my astigmatismed eyes, of any of the red-dot sights that I've used so far. .. Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By MRW: i zero my Aimpoint at the very top of the dot. I should be so lucky as to be able to discern a distinct point that represents the top of the dot. Due to my astigmatism, the dot looks like a red amoeba. http://www.box.net/shared/static/lbqf07lo3i.bmp ... The Trijicon RMR07 has the sharpest dot, for my astigmatismed eyes, of any of the red-dot sights that I've used so far. .. |
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Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
Viewing through the aperture of a rear sight will make the dot very crisp for me, and I've heard others say the same. Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By MRW:
i zero my Aimpoint at the very top of the dot. I should be so lucky as to be able to discern a distinct point that represents the top of the dot. Due to my astigmatism, the dot looks like a red amoeba. http://www.box.net/shared/static/lbqf07lo3i.bmp ... The Trijicon RMR07 has the sharpest dot, for my astigmatismed eyes, of any of the red-dot sights that I've used so far. .. Viewing through the aperture of a rear sight will make the dot very crisp for me, and I've heard others say the same. I should be so lucky. 
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All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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| I replaced all but one dot with 1x prisms. Adjustable diopter and etched reticle for me please |
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
https://www.memoriapress.com/articles/the-four-causes-of-classical-education/
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
https://www.memoriapress.com/articles/the-four-causes-of-classical-education/
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Good work as always.... I've known this for years...My first Aimpoint was a Comp C with a 4 moa dot. Then I got a T-1. It was a 4 moa also (Pat Rogers was told by his good Freind who worked for Aimpoint that it was actually a 3.4 moa dot). I remember when the 2moa T-1's came out. Everybody was dumping there 4 moa's....Had to get that 2 moa precision...LOL. Pat always said we lived in a 200meter world....and he was spot on....Aimpoint for life for this guy. |
Just Drop... Buckethead!
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Originally Posted By MRW: I replaced all but one dot with 1x prisms. Adjustable diopter and etched reticle for me please Aging eyes is the problem, not the Aimpoint that were made for the targeted age brackets. I haven't had any need to replace my dots with any prisms. In fact, I added dots on top of my ACOG prisms. |
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Originally Posted By MRW: I replaced all but one dot with 1x prisms. Interesting. How do your back-up iron sights look when viewed through the prism sight? .... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By Molon: Interesting. How do your back-up iron sights look when viewed through the prism sight? .... It's hard to say  |
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
https://www.memoriapress.com/articles/the-four-causes-of-classical-education/
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
https://www.memoriapress.com/articles/the-four-causes-of-classical-education/
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Originally Posted By MRW: It's hard to say https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/5205/IMG_6345_JPG-2224614.jpg How? It's a yes or no question. Your picture shows that it's very easy to say. More prisms for you though, I'll take an Aimpoint over your PA prisms. |
Precision Shooting With an Aimpoint: Range Report (Page 3 of 3)
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