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Posted: 6/20/2022 8:05:56 PM EDT
Reference:: Marine Scout Sniper Rifle
I posted this over in the Retro-club, decided to post here too. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge on this weapon? Have built a clone? Build list? A1 lower, tri--rail upper, 24" match barrel, J&P match trigger ... looks as if A frame front sight cut down. Any help? Looks like a fun "early style" SDM-R.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/20/2022 8:27:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Sure it's an intended configuration and not just the amalgamation of random junk parts available in a poor country?
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Posted: 6/20/2022 9:24:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure it's an intended configuration and not just the amalgamation of random junk parts available in a poor country? This. The tri rail was a super common thing in the mid 2000’s from UTG and similar. That scope looks like one of the rubber coated NC Star scopes of the same timeframe. |
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Posted: 6/20/2022 9:54:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Design History
The system was developed in-house under the direction of Col. Jonathan Martir, PN (M) (GSC), N-6.[1] The first generation MSSR was deployed in 1996 as an M16A1 with a Tasco variable 3-9 x 40 mm rubber-coated scope[3] on a DPMS Tri-mount atop the carry handle. This required a Delta HBAR cheek piece on the stock to align the operator's eye with the elevated scope position. The standard handguards were replaced with a free-floating aluminum forearm, and a Harris folding bipod was attached to the underside of the forearm. The standard M16A1 barrel was replaced with a free-floated 24" (68 cm) DPMS Heavy Stainless Steel Ultra Match barrel with a 1 in 8.5" right-hand twist, with an M16A1 front sight base. A J&P match trigger was installed. In service1996–present Used by Philippine Marines, Philippine Navy Naval Special Warfare Group (NSWG)Wars Anti-guerrilla operations in Visayas and Mindanao |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 12:03:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Looks a lot like a Colt CR6724 Accurized Match Rifle, with a tri-rail riser.
 eta: In the 80s, it was called the CAR-15 (Colt Accurized Rifle) with parkerized barrel. The scope looks like the Tasco rubberized 3x9 that came with the Colt Delta Elite. The stock riser in the second photo is also from the Delta Elite era. |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 11:17:56 AM EDT
[#5]
@TGWLDR
Thanks |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 11:19:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks a lot like a Colt CR6724 Accurized Match Rifle, with a tri-rail riser. https://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/3321/934896264/wm_4395973.jpg @NVCapCop Thanks brother ... this will steer my direction. Especially gas block and handguards. Perhaps a Weaver tri-rail riser on a flat top. |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 11:27:18 AM EDT
[#7]
When we were training the Philippine Marine Corps, their snipers had M14s. This was in 2012. Spent a month there with them.
We ate pretty good  Attached FileLots of amphibious operations. I don’t miss CRCCs  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 1:38:15 PM EDT
[#8]
The upper looks like the old Bushmaster Vermiter - which was stupid accurate. I'm not sure why the quit making them.
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Posted: 6/21/2022 9:41:36 PM EDT
[#9]
@NVCapCop
Brother it seems you're dead on. Wiki - MSSR Wikipedia claims the scope was a Tasco 3X9X40. The more I dig into this, I believe you're right about the C.A.R. connection. Now to find the free float handguards ... I will build this. |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 10:03:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @NVCapCop Brother it seems you're dead on. Wiki - MSSR Wikipedia claims the scope was a Tasco 3X9X40. The more I dig into this, I believe you're right about the C.A.R. connection. Now to find the free float handguards ... I will build this. Pretty sure I have that tube (new) in the parts bin. I started assembling the parts and then the Bushmaster Varminter came along. I also have DPMS winter camo middy furniture... It's an affliction I can't seem to shake. |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 11:08:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Time to change the thread title to “Official Philippine Marine Scout Sniper Rifle Clone Thread”. There is definitely some late 90s early 2000s cool factor going on here.
   This is very interesting  A Philippine Marine shows the Night Fighting Weapon System sniper rifle with a mounted Litton Model M845 MkII Night Vision Sight. |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 11:22:45 PM EDT
[#12]
 
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Posted: 6/21/2022 11:31:20 PM EDT
[#13]
   
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Posted: 6/22/2022 9:45:09 AM EDT
[#14]
@CavGunner
*We'll need pics, when you get er done.*  Inspirational pics added C.A.R. style  Colt Delta Elite  Tasco 3x9x40  |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 1:40:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Time to change the thread title to “Official Philippine Marine Scout Sniper Rifle Clone Thread”. There is definitely some late 90s early 2000s cool factor going on here. https://i.postimg.cc/3wS3st9d/DEC46-EEB-435-A-46-E5-8-B46-F00442-B40-A05.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/3Np7DYhv/DAB14-D41-5-C85-4964-910-F-DDA1-F5-AD7-A25.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/9MsCMz62/C0721-DBF-6-C64-41-BE-9-BF4-74-CA2-F5-C4-CD8.jpg This is very interesting https://i.postimg.cc/Qd6pz3L5/D43-AAB56-B9-C0-4-B85-94-B0-F9782-A839-C2-D.jpg A Philippine Marine shows the Night Fighting Weapon System sniper rifle with a mounted Litton Model M845 MkII Night Vision Sight. 2nd and 3rd pics looks like a dpms gas block |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 8:50:27 PM EDT
[#16]
@PirateEC
On your suggestion ... the thread title is now changed. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 10:01:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Wonder how fast you could push a 77gr out of a 24” barrel
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:06:41 PM EDT
[#18]
 Gen. 4  Unknown |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 11:34:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryTop pic shows cool mag loaders similar to the Thermold/Canadian loaders. .JPG) Bottom pic looks like a DD Mk12 |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 12:30:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. The tri rail was a super common thing in the mid 2000’s from UTG and similar. That scope looks like one of the rubber coated NC Star scopes of the same timeframe. I'll say that if i didnt get my DPMS Tri mount new in the packaging, I would have had a hard time trusting it wasnt one of the many Chinese copies. It doesnt have any markings at all. 
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Posted: 6/23/2022 8:31:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll say that if i didnt get my DPMS Tri mount new in the packaging, I would have had a hard time trusting it wasnt one of the many Chinese copies. It doesnt have any markings at all. https://i.imgur.com/Sekzlno.jpeg @JTM20 Please post more pics ... I hear those are as rare as hen's teeth. I'm considering using a Weaver tri rail riser on a A-4 upper to achieve the look. |
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Posted: 6/24/2022 9:38:41 AM EDT
[#22]
@Cav-Gunner
It's a solid mount. But the Tasco rubber armored scope is pretty bad. The rings are especially terrible, but my rings are from the Norinco copy since my Tasco was missing them, so that could be the reason why. I'll probably switch it out with the Phillipine made Bushnell that started showing up on the Gen 3 rifles.   
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Posted: 6/24/2022 12:17:30 PM EDT
[#23]
@JMT20
Thanks for posting the pictures. Here is a picture of the Weaver tri rail. IMHO, I think it works for doing a clone. 
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Posted: 6/24/2022 6:01:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @JMT20 Thanks for posting the pictures. Here is a picture of the Weaver tri rail. IMHO, I think it works for doing a clone. https://www.mountsplus.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/AR-15_Weaver_TRI_RAIL_MOUNT_SYSTEM_FLAT_TOP_MOUNT.jpg That should get you the right look. Funny enough i had a chance to pick up a tri rail upper at the same time i bought the tri-mount. I passed because i thought i'd be content just building one clone. Now i wish i grabbed it    |
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Posted: 6/26/2022 12:15:19 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That should get you the right look. Funny enough i had a chance to pick up a tri rail upper at the same time i bought the tri-mount. I passed because i thought i'd be content just building one clone. Now i wish i grabbed it https://i.imgur.com/ol0UdWm.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/5t9IA6X.jpeg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @JMT20 Thanks for posting the pictures. Here is a picture of the Weaver tri rail. IMHO, I think it works for doing a clone. https://www.mountsplus.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/AR-15_Weaver_TRI_RAIL_MOUNT_SYSTEM_FLAT_TOP_MOUNT.jpg That should get you the right look. Funny enough i had a chance to pick up a tri rail upper at the same time i bought the tri-mount. I passed because i thought i'd be content just building one clone. Now i wish i grabbed it https://i.imgur.com/ol0UdWm.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/5t9IA6X.jpeg @JMT20 I think we all kick ourselves for things we should've bought. I could always place a WTB. |
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Posted: 6/26/2022 6:28:07 AM EDT
[#26]
Asking with a 24” barrel, would the .224 Valkyrie be a better solution at longer ranges than the clone .223 while still maintaining the look. I am thinking the longer barrel would affect velocity more than gaining accuracy.
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Posted: 6/26/2022 7:01:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Asking with a 24” barrel, would the .224 Valkyrie be a better solution at longer ranges than the clone .223 while still maintaining the look. I am thinking the longer barrel would affect velocity more than gaining accuracy. I would think that you're on to something with your thought process. I have no experience with the Valkyrie round, except helping a friend with a build. I can't remember his twist rate, but it was 18"ER and he was never to happy with it. As another poster said, I am curious and how a 223/.556 77 gr would perform coming out of 24". ? |
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Posted: 6/26/2022 8:38:27 AM EDT
[#28]
I built up something similar to the Colt rifle using a 22" Green Mountain barrel. I live in central Florida, right about sea level
 the velocity of 77 FGMM was 2638 fps, which is slow, but it's a known loading Magtech 77 SMK was 2850 fps Wolf Gold 55gr was 3131 fps What will two more inches give you? Here's my review of the barrel and build https://thenewrifleman.com/review-of-the-green-mountain-22-stainless-ar-barrel/ |
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Posted: 6/26/2022 5:56:12 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 6/26/2022 9:19:27 PM EDT
[#30]
I spent a bunch of time yesterday trying to find the right handguard and 24” barrel.
CBC Industies has a barrel, and Model 1 Sales had the ff tube. Neither company has a stellar reputation from what I saw. Ymmv |
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Posted: 6/26/2022 9:57:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would think that you're on to something with your thought process. I have no experience with the Valkyrie round, except helping a friend with a build. I can't remember his twist rate, but it was 18"ER and he was never to happy with it. As another poster said, I am curious and how a 223/.556 77 gr would perform coming out of 24". ? You would need 1-8" to achieve consistent accuracy. I have a bolt gun in 22BR, 25" 8 twist that shoots consistent groups with 69-77gr SMKs. You might also try a Norma 22PPC using a 7.62x39 bolt. |
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Posted: 6/27/2022 7:54:05 AM EDT
[#32]
This barrel would be perfect for the Gen 1 or Gen 2 shaved FSB
 This handguard has the flutes  
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Posted: 6/27/2022 6:23:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Finally got the chance to finish building my Gen 1 MSSR clone build. Incoming wall of text.
Upper Parts list: - Elisco "P M" A1 upper receiver - Colt A1 BCG and CH - DPMS Tri Mount - Tasco 3-9x40 Rubber Armored Scope - Bushmaster 24" 1-9 HBAR - DPMS free float tube - Harris L bipod w/ knob adjustments - Modded Harris #5 adapter Lower Parts list: - Brownell's A1 lower receiver - JP Enterperises Single Stage Trigger - Surplus A2 buttstock - Colt Delta Cheek Rest - Surplus A1 Grip I tried to stay true to the original, but made a couple changes: - Bushmaster chrome moly barrel because it was a challenge finding the correct profile stainless steel barrel with an FSB - 2 piece DPMS tube because i couldnt find the wrench to install the integral barrel nut 1 piece tube - A2 stock instead of an A1 stock, i didnt want to chop up an original Colt cheek rest Overall it's an interesting (and heavy) rifle and I can see why it was upgraded so quickly. The Tasco scope isnt great, and it's hard to get a good cheek weld with the carry handle, even using the cheek riser. Later gen rifles fixed the Gen 1's shortcomings, but it was a neat idea and very much a product of it's time (mid 90's). I think it was a clever use of leftover M16A1's, and an upgrade over the worn out M1D Garand's and M14's the Phillipine snipers were using up to that point. I can't wait to see how it shoots. 
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Posted: 6/27/2022 6:27:11 PM EDT
[#34]
oooh, man, that pic bring back 1993 memories! Shotgun news was my addiction.
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Posted: 6/27/2022 9:25:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finally got the chance to finish building my Gen 1 MSSR clone build. Incoming wall of text. Upper Parts list: - Elisco "P M" A1 upper receiver - Colt A1 BCG and CH - DPMS Tri Mount - Tasco 3-9x40 Rubber Armored Scope - Bushmaster 24" 1-9 HBAR - DPMS free float tube - Harris L bipod w/ knob adjustments - Modded Harris #5 adapter Lower Parts list: - Brownell's A1 lower receiver - JP Enterperises Single Stage Trigger - Surplus A2 buttstock - Colt Delta Cheek Rest - Surplus A1 Grip I tried to stay true to the original, but made a couple changes: - Bushmaster chrome moly barrel because it was a challenge finding the correct profile stainless steel barrel with an FSB - 2 piece DPMS tube because i couldnt find the wrench to install the integral barrel nut 1 piece tube - A2 stock instead of an A1 stock, i didnt want to chop up an original Colt cheek rest Overall it's an interesting (and heavy) rifle. I can see why it was upgraded soon; The Tasco scope isnt great, and it's hard to get a good cheek weld with the carry handle, even using the cheek riser. Later gen rifles fixed the Gen 1's shortcomings, but it was a neat idea and very much a product of it's time (mid 90's). I think it was a clever use of leftover M16A1's, and an upgrade over the worn out M1D Garand's and M14's the Phillipine snipers were using up to that point. I can't wait to see how it shoots. https://i.imgur.com/8w3wZmv.jpeg You nailed it. 
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Posted: 6/27/2022 11:41:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finally got the chance to finish building my Gen 1 MSSR clone build. Incoming wall of text. Upper Parts list: - Elisco "P M" A1 upper receiver - Colt A1 BCG and CH - DPMS Tri Mount - Tasco 3-9x40 Rubber Armored Scope - Bushmaster 24" 1-9 HBAR - DPMS free float tube - Harris L bipod w/ knob adjustments - Modded Harris #5 adapter Lower Parts list: - Brownell's A1 lower receiver - JP Enterperises Single Stage Trigger - Surplus A2 buttstock - Colt Delta Cheek Rest - Surplus A1 Grip I tried to stay true to the original, but made a couple changes: - Bushmaster chrome moly barrel because it was a challenge finding the correct profile stainless steel barrel with an FSB - 2 piece DPMS tube because i couldnt find the wrench to install the integral barrel nut 1 piece tube - A2 stock instead of an A1 stock, i didnt want to chop up an original Colt cheek rest Overall it's an interesting (and heavy) rifle and I can see why it was upgraded so quickly. The Tasco scope isnt great, and it's hard to get a good cheek weld with the carry handle, even using the cheek riser. Later gen rifles fixed the Gen 1's shortcomings, but it was a neat idea and very much a product of it's time (mid 90's). I think it was a clever use of leftover M16A1's, and an upgrade over the worn out M1D Garand's and M14's the Phillipine snipers were using up to that point. I can't wait to see how it shoots. https://i.imgur.com/8w3wZmv.jpeg @JMT20 Thanks for the build list. I'm rapidly gathering parts. The picture of your rifle is awesome! |
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Posted: 6/27/2022 11:44:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I spent a bunch of time yesterday trying to find the right handguard and 24” barrel. CBC Industies has a barrel, and Model 1 Sales had the ff tube. Neither company has a stellar reputation from what I saw. Ymmv @mike_nds Thanks for the research. A stashed away NoDak A1 lower may end up being used ... so hurry up with the H&R. Kidding quality vs junk,any day. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 9:14:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @JMT20 Thanks for the build list. I'm rapidly gathering parts. The picture of your rifle is awesome! Thanks! Looking forward to seeing your build as well. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 9:16:02 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @CavGunner *We'll need pics, when you get er done.* Inspirational pics added C.A.R. style https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/13481/13749138_1.jpg?v=8CF527F5226D490 Colt Delta Elite https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/Amoskeag/10/621310/H1193-L138415883.jpg Tasco 3x9x40 https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.633cb6c5f22693dcc12a2b2b43e2101c?rik=EYoMUeVJZDi7pw&riu=http%3a%2f%2fsaitosight.ganriki.net%2fscopes%2ftasco_rubber_3-9x40%2fthumbnail.jpg&ehk=Tn8YLvZEN1WEV7hOaCE2pT2qCRyCeH7vR6k65mOkbII%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0 @NVCapCop Wrong member ??. Add the dash. @Cav-Gunner. Cool thread and great pics by the way. |
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