User Panel
[#1]
Originally Posted By P51D_katydid: Do any of the retailers get the urgi 14.5” uppers in that last six months? Only thing I can find is a clone correct from Charlie’s. Says it has mk12 gas block so that not correct anymore, as I recall. It looks like they are assembling it. https://charliescustomclones.com/geissele-upper-receiver-group-usasoc-urg-i-clone-correct-pinned-flash-hider/ I have ordered a few low dollar stuff from them and had good luck. But, that has not been the case with some others as I recall. Not really looking to build this upper myself, so just wondering what others have done. View Quote Geissele discontinued the "clone correct" URGIs. Most of the them had the MK12 GB anyway. If you want one that's right, you will have to build it yourself or find someone selling theirs. |
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On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.
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[#2]
Originally Posted By SMFdarkangel: Geissele discontinued the "clone correct" URGIs. Most of the them had the MK12 GB anyway. If you want one that's right, you will have to build it yourself or find someone selling theirs. View Quote Yes, but are the MK12 gas blocks really not 100% correct? Would not there be a case for it being correct for a early version? |
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How much crack did you have to smoke to reach that conclusion, a $20 rock or Whitney Houston level shit?
”Guitargod1985” |
[#3]
Originally Posted By mstennes: Yes, but are the MK12 gas blocks really not 100% correct? Would not there be a case for it being correct for a early version? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By mstennes: Originally Posted By SMFdarkangel: Geissele discontinued the "clone correct" URGIs. Most of the them had the MK12 GB anyway. If you want one that's right, you will have to build it yourself or find someone selling theirs. Yes, but are the MK12 gas blocks really not 100% correct? Would not there be a case for it being correct for a early version? As far as I know, all of the barrel assemblies had the Mk12 gas blocks removed and DD gas blocks installed before they were sent out. Or are you trying to say that a test/evaluation/prototype URG would have had a Mk12 gas block? |
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[#4]
Originally Posted By pezboytate: As far as I know, all of the barrel assemblies had the Mk12 gas blocks removed and DD gas blocks installed before they were sent out. Or are you trying to say that a test/evaluation/prototype URG would have had a Mk12 gas block? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By pezboytate: Originally Posted By mstennes: Originally Posted By SMFdarkangel: Geissele discontinued the "clone correct" URGIs. Most of the them had the MK12 GB anyway. If you want one that's right, you will have to build it yourself or find someone selling theirs. Yes, but are the MK12 gas blocks really not 100% correct? Would not there be a case for it being correct for a early version? As far as I know, all of the barrel assemblies had the Mk12 gas blocks removed and DD gas blocks installed before they were sent out. Or are you trying to say that a test/evaluation/prototype URG would have had a Mk12 gas block? Just curious as to if any went out in the field? There were also MK12’s that were milled down before the change to DD’s pinned. It seemed like there was time from the announcement to having clearance issues. Hell I can’t remember, just seems like there was some time (months) in there? |
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How much crack did you have to smoke to reach that conclusion, a $20 rock or Whitney Houston level shit?
”Guitargod1985” |
[#5]
Originally Posted By mstennes: Just curious as to if any went out in the field? There were also MK12’s that were milled down before the change to DD’s pinned. It seemed like there was time from the announcement to having clearance issues. Hell I can’t remember, just seems like there was some time (months) in there? View Quote I think you are confusing USASOC URG-Is and Geissele URG-Is. Geissele originally went with the Mk12 on their "clone correct" URG-I because that is what was to be issued. They were selling Geissele URG-Is before any USASOC URG-Is were issued. Owners reported that there was contact between the Mk12 gas block and MK16 rail on their Geissele URG-Is. Geissele remedied it by chamfering the Mk12 gas blocks . USASOC switched to the DD gas block before their kits were fielded. |
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[#6]
Originally Posted By pezboytate: I think you are confusing USASOC URG-Is and Geissele URG-Is. Geissele originally went with the Mk12 on their "clone correct" URG-I because that is what was to be issued. They were selling Geissele URG-Is before any USASOC URG-Is were issued. Owners reported that there was contact between the Mk12 gas block and MK16 rail on their Geissele URG-Is. Geissele remedied it by chamfering the Mk12 gas blocks . USASOC switched to the DD gas block before their kits were fielded. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By pezboytate: Originally Posted By mstennes: Just curious as to if any went out in the field? There were also MK12’s that were milled down before the change to DD’s pinned. It seemed like there was time from the announcement to having clearance issues. Hell I can’t remember, just seems like there was some time (months) in there? I think you are confusing USASOC URG-Is and Geissele URG-Is. Geissele originally went with the Mk12 on their "clone correct" URG-I because that is what was to be issued. They were selling Geissele URG-Is before any USASOC URG-Is were issued. Owners reported that there was contact between the Mk12 gas block and MK16 rail on their Geissele URG-Is. Geissele remedied it by chamfering the Mk12 gas blocks . USASOC switched to the DD gas block before their kits were fielded. Gotcha, I knew I couldn’t remember it all. Thank you. |
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How much crack did you have to smoke to reach that conclusion, a $20 rock or Whitney Houston level shit?
”Guitargod1985” |
[#7]
Question on the 11.5" Upper Receiver Group, Improved- 1005-01-684-1906
Barrel- Daniel Defense 11.5" "GOV" profile- P/N 07-077-07108 What is the gas port size on this barrel? Has anyone measured it? |
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[#8]
Originally Posted By Acetomco: Question on the 11.5" Upper Receiver Group, Improved- 1005-01-684-1906 Barrel- Daniel Defense 11.5" "GOV" profile- P/N 07-077-07108 What is the gas port size on this barrel? Has anyone measured it? View Quote I have not but I believe it is at least .070" which is kind of disappointing if so. |
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[Last Edit: stoner63a]
[#9]
Originally Posted By mstennes: Yes, but are the MK12 gas blocks really not 100% correct? Would not there be a case for it being correct for a early version? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By mstennes: Originally Posted By SMFdarkangel: Geissele discontinued the "clone correct" URGIs. Most of the them had the MK12 GB anyway. If you want one that's right, you will have to build it yourself or find someone selling theirs. Yes, but are the MK12 gas blocks really not 100% correct? Would not there be a case for it being correct for a early version? Now I went back bought a 2nd DD Barrel 07-077-07308 with pinned gas block from Primary Arms. PA, Optics Planet and DD seem to stock them every few weeks. But like an earlier posted stated, run a google search of the Daniel Defense Part # 07-077-07308 you may find it in stock elsewhere. Edit 01152021 1517Hrs CST: Matter of fact DD appears to have some in stock once you chose the LP gas block in the drop down menu $373 + $63: https://danieldefense.com/14-5-5-56mm-1-7-gov-profile.html |
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1995 M1025A2 5SFG GMV ODA525 "Hammerhead"
1995 M1025A2 3SFG GMV ODA391 "Roughnecks" 1994 M1025A1 7SFG GMV Alwahsh al'Akhdar |
[#10]
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[#11]
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[#12]
Yeah, they're 10.3" used to be something like .076" and their 12.5" is .073". Doesn't leave me confident that their 11.5" is .067". When I get an 11.5", I'll pin it.
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[#13]
Originally Posted By india13c: Pretty sure I saw in the DD industry forum they said they’re .067 or .068. Just can’t find it now. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By india13c: Originally Posted By pezboytate: I have not but I believe it is at least .070" which is kind of disappointing if so. Pretty sure I saw in the DD industry forum they said they’re .067 or .068. Just can’t find it now. I saw .070 stated in the DD forum for there 11.5 barrel. |
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[#14]
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[#16]
Originally Posted By Tactical_Bucket: You mean like this? https://imgur.com/ivH1CTa.jpg https://imgur.com/fxmss8v.jpg https://imgur.com/4LZrPYB.jpg View Quote That looks like it. Where did you get that? |
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[#17]
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C14A05
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[#18]
been going back and forth about this for a few weeks. Do you guys consider the razor 1-6 in a geissele mount to be clone correct? its clear that it didnt win the contarct but there are alot of them in the wild. I am tempted to sell and get a tango6t in their alpha 4 mount ( when the mount is released) but i just dont feel there is any chance it is as good as the razor. Please note, i have a mental problem that thends to justifies worse gear and prioritizes correctness , but boy do i like the razor 1-6
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[#19]
Originally Posted By oneofus: been going back and forth about this for a few weeks. Do you guys consider the razor 1-6 in a geissele mount to be clone correct? its clear that it didnt win the contarct but there are alot of them in the wild. I am tempted to sell and get a tango6t in their alpha 4 mount ( when the mount is released) but i just dont feel there is any chance it is as good as the razor. Please note, i have a mental problem that thends to justifies worse gear and prioritizes correctness , but boy do i like the razor 1-6 View Quote They were on the T&E guns, but I don't think I've seen a pic of USASOC with them. |
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[#20]
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[#21]
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[#22]
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[#23]
Originally Posted By LsuJon: Some VERY interesting items in this photo. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316069/20B835A3-0EEA-4973-8DB6-2A819F21B9A2_jpe-1793598.JPG View Quote I cant tell, is that the KAC or the Sig LMG? |
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[#24]
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[#26]
I bought a Geissele URG-I with a 10.3" barrel and the receiver is a square forge with subdued T numbers.
More recently I bought a bare Geissele upper receiver and it has the same T marks, but also has a, "G" stamped in it, similar to the, "C" and, "F" marks Colt and FN sometimes use to indicate the maker on parts sold to the government or military. I found a photo of the 3rd Special Forces Group in 2019 with the 14.5" barrel URG-I, with DDC rails, black receivers and 4 prong flash Surefire flash hiders. The complete upper I bought from Geissele has a black receiver, but it does not have the, "G" stamped in it. |
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[#27]
Originally Posted By the_neumanator: Apologies for responding to a post that is four pages back but I haven't checked this thread in a while. Figured everyone would want to know that Geissele was sending out complete clones with the correct gas block as @SMFdarkangel has indicated. I ordered and received a complete clone with the correct gas block in September of 2019. Oddly enough the specifications printed on the back of the box indicated that the gas block was a "Daniel Defense MK12 Low Profile Gas Block." I have (hopefully) posted a picture of the specs from the box below. Obviously if you look up "MK12 Low Profile Gas Block" on DD's website it isn't the correct block. However, the one that I have on my complete upper from Geissele is the pinned low-profile gas block that comes with DD SKU/MPN 07-077-07308. https://i.imgur.com/YsKyOEO.png View Quote Geissele did sell them with Colt uppers and BCG's and DD gas blocks at one time. Later (2020?) they went to commercial uppers and BCG's with Geissele gas blocks. I'll have to look on the back of my box, if it isn't covered by a shipping label. The parts inside are still sealed in plastic. It is the 10.3" barrel and i don't think the 4 prong flash hider is welded. At one time (2019?), Geissele was also selling Colt bare upper receivers and BCG's separately. |
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[#28]
Originally Posted By Air_Soft_Contractor: Geissele did sell them with Colt uppers and BCG's and DD gas blocks at one time. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Air_Soft_Contractor: Originally Posted By the_neumanator: Apologies for responding to a post that is four pages back but I haven't checked this thread in a while. Figured everyone would want to know that Geissele was sending out complete clones with the correct gas block as @SMFdarkangel has indicated. I ordered and received a complete clone with the correct gas block in September of 2019. Oddly enough the specifications printed on the back of the box indicated that the gas block was a "Daniel Defense MK12 Low Profile Gas Block." I have (hopefully) posted a picture of the specs from the box below. Obviously if you look up "MK12 Low Profile Gas Block" on DD's website it isn't the correct block. However, the one that I have on my complete upper from Geissele is the pinned low-profile gas block that comes with DD SKU/MPN 07-077-07308. https://i.imgur.com/YsKyOEO.png Geissele did sell them with Colt uppers and BCG's and DD gas blocks at one time. I think the distinction that the_neumanator is making is that the original "clone correct" URG-I uppers were coming with the DD Mk12 gas block, but the correct one should be the low-profile gas block that DD only sells mounted on the clone-correct government profile mid-length 14.5" barrel. I think he's saying that although the "clone correct" URG-I upper that Geissele sold was coming with the Mk12 gas block in the beginning, they must have switched to the correct low-profile gas block towards the end of production. |
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[#29]
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IG @bayou_bengal-rifles
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[#30]
Originally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: I think the distinction that the_neumanator is making is that the original "clone correct" URG-I uppers were coming with the DD Mk12 gas block, but the correct one should be the low-profile gas block that DD only sells mounted on the clone-correct government profile mid-length 14.5" barrel. I think he's saying that although the "clone correct" URG-I upper that Geissele sold was coming with the Mk12 gas block in the beginning, they must have switched to the correct low-profile gas block towards the end of production. View Quote Exactly. It looks like they switched to the correct gas block in the last batch of complete URG-I uppers that they sold. I got lucky. They didn't feel inclined to change the spec wording on the boxes they were shipping them in, which further adds to the confusion. |
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[#31]
Kind of a moot point unless Geissele starts selling them again.
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[#32]
Originally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: I think the distinction that the_neumanator is making is that the original "clone correct" URG-I uppers were coming with the DD Mk12 gas block, but the correct one should be the low-profile gas block that DD only sells mounted on the clone-correct government profile mid-length 14.5" barrel. I think he's saying that although the "clone correct" URG-I upper that Geissele sold was coming with the Mk12 gas block in the beginning, they must have switched to the correct low-profile gas block towards the end of production. View Quote Ah, yes. I know before I bought mine, they came with Colt uppers and BCG's. Mine came with a Geissele upper and a Geissele M4A1 BCG. My Geissele assembled upper has an unmarked receiver, but the Geissele bare receiver I bought has a, "G" stamped in it. I think the assembled one is unmarked, as I haven't removed the clear plastic, but I can't see a stamp through the plastic, so I don't think it has one. I bought the 10.3" barrel, because i wanted a 4 prong flash hider that wasn't welded. I bought an early 13.5" MK16 black rail that included a bare stainless Geissele gas block, like other Geissele rails did. Later I bought a 10.5" MK16 DDC rail that did not include a gas block and was $25 more than the black one. |
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[Last Edit: Air_Soft_Contractor]
[#33]
Originally Posted By the_neumanator: Apologies for responding to a post that is four pages back but I haven't checked this thread in a while. Figured everyone would want to know that Geissele was sending out complete clones with the correct gas block as @SMFdarkangel has indicated. I ordered and received a complete clone with the correct gas block in September of 2019. Oddly enough the specifications printed on the back of the box indicated that the gas block was a "Daniel Defense MK12 Low Profile Gas Block." I have (hopefully) posted a picture of the specs from the box below. Obviously if you look up "MK12 Low Profile Gas Block" on DD's website it isn't the correct block. However, the one that I have on my complete upper from Geissele is the pinned low-profile gas block that comes with DD SKU/MPN 07-077-07308. https://i.imgur.com/YsKyOEO.png View Quote I looked at my Geissele box. There isn't anything like that on the outside, but inside is a sticker label with a check list of parts and the initials of the person that packed it. It doesn't give the brand name or source of the parts. Mine is the 10.3" URG-I with the 9.3" MK16 DDC rail, subdued markings Airborne charging handle, subdued T marked upper, M4A1 BCG and 4 prong Surefire SOCOM flash hider. Geissele did advertise Colt uppers and BCG's before I bought mine. Geissele even sold the Colt parts separately for a short time. The URG-I doesn't have a stamp on the upper, but I bought a bare Geissele upper and it has a, "G" stamped behind the square forge mark. |
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[#34]
Originally Posted By Air_Soft_Contractor: At one time (2019?), Geissele was also selling Colt bare upper receivers and BCG's separately. View Quote I bought quite a few of both. At the end G was blowing out colt BCG's for $109, and Colt cage code uppers for $119. They were too cheap to not stock up on. Glad I did. I could dig it out for pics, the BCG's came in the same clear tube with red plastic end caps that the Super 42 spring/buffer ships in. The 4 or 5 I grabbed were all electro stencil C marked bcgs. |
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[#35]
I guess this seems as good a place as any to ask. Since much of recent data shows a minimal performance increase from 11.5 to 14.5, why did they roll out a bunch of 14.5 urg-i's instead of a bunch of 11.5 urg-i's? What is the specific reason when it seems like ballistically there isn't much gain?
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[Last Edit: Air_Soft_Contractor]
[#36]
Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: I guess this seems as good a place as any to ask. Since much of recent data shows a minimal performance increase from 11.5 to 14.5, why did they roll out a bunch of 14.5 urg-i's instead of a bunch of 11.5 urg-i's? What is the specific reason when it seems like ballistically there isn't much gain? View Quote It may not be just down to performance. The farther the muzzle is from the chamber, the lower the pressure and blast at the muzzle. You can really tell a difference between shooting an 11.5" barrel and a 14.5" barrel. The 14.5" barrel version also has a mid-length gas system, which proved to be more reliable than a carbine length gas system. |
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[#37]
Originally Posted By Tactical_Bucket: You mean like this? https://imgur.com/ivH1CTa.jpg https://imgur.com/fxmss8v.jpg https://imgur.com/4LZrPYB.jpg View Quote |
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[Last Edit: Vapor-Trail]
[#38]
Originally Posted By Air_Soft_Contractor: It may not be just down to performance. The farther the muzzle is from the chamber, the lower the pressure and blast at the muzzle. You can really tell a difference between shooting an 11.5" barrel and a 14.5" barrel. The 14.5" barrel version also has a mid-length gas system, which proved to be more reliable than a carbine length gas system. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Air_Soft_Contractor: Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: I guess this seems as good a place as any to ask. Since much of recent data shows a minimal performance increase from 11.5 to 14.5, why did they roll out a bunch of 14.5 urg-i's instead of a bunch of 11.5 urg-i's? What is the specific reason when it seems like ballistically there isn't much gain? It may not be just down to performance. The farther the muzzle is from the chamber, the lower the pressure and blast at the muzzle. You can really tell a difference between shooting an 11.5" barrel and a 14.5" barrel. The 14.5" barrel version also has a mid-length gas system, which proved to be more reliable than a carbine length gas system. This, They determined that midlength gas systems have fewer malfunctions in their testing. crane midlength vs carbine testing |
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[#39]
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: This, They determined that midlength gas systems have fewer malfunctions in their testing. crane midlength vs carbine testing View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Originally Posted By Air_Soft_Contractor: Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: I guess this seems as good a place as any to ask. Since much of recent data shows a minimal performance increase from 11.5 to 14.5, why did they roll out a bunch of 14.5 urg-i's instead of a bunch of 11.5 urg-i's? What is the specific reason when it seems like ballistically there isn't much gain? It may not be just down to performance. The farther the muzzle is from the chamber, the lower the pressure and blast at the muzzle. You can really tell a difference between shooting an 11.5" barrel and a 14.5" barrel. The 14.5" barrel version also has a mid-length gas system, which proved to be more reliable than a carbine length gas system. This, They determined that midlength gas systems have fewer malfunctions in their testing. crane midlength vs carbine testing So that was pretty interesting. But that's only between the gas systems for the 14.5. No mention of 11.5. I guess my question is why even give the nsn for the 11.5? |
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[Last Edit: Vapor-Trail]
[#40]
Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: So that was pretty interesting. But that's only between the gas systems for the 14.5. No mention of 11.5. I guess my question is why even give the nsn for the 11.5? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Originally Posted By Air_Soft_Contractor: Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: I guess this seems as good a place as any to ask. Since much of recent data shows a minimal performance increase from 11.5 to 14.5, why did they roll out a bunch of 14.5 urg-i's instead of a bunch of 11.5 urg-i's? What is the specific reason when it seems like ballistically there isn't much gain? It may not be just down to performance. The farther the muzzle is from the chamber, the lower the pressure and blast at the muzzle. You can really tell a difference between shooting an 11.5" barrel and a 14.5" barrel. The 14.5" barrel version also has a mid-length gas system, which proved to be more reliable than a carbine length gas system. This, They determined that midlength gas systems have fewer malfunctions in their testing. crane midlength vs carbine testing So that was pretty interesting. But that's only between the gas systems for the 14.5. No mention of 11.5. I guess my question is why even give the nsn for the 11.5? The original USASOC URGI program was for the 14.5" only. The shorty was added on later. Originally supposed to be 10.3" But is now 11.5" Supposedly units are getting the 11.5" now. That picture above could be one. Its hard to tell, but looks like it. |
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[#41]
I don't know how anyone is quantifying that 11.5" is as effective as 14.5". The longer the barrel, the better the round is going to perform. Now, is an 11.5" "good enough". Perhaps. That's a completely different question though. Is a 20" necessary? I don't think so. Is a 14.5" necessary? Maybe not either.
The reason for the use of 10", 11.5", 14.5", and 10.3" barrels has always been compactness. With the URG-I, 11.5" isn't a ton shorter than 14.5". A 16" or 14.5" general purpose/DMR and 10.3" shorty would be a better selection than 14.5" and 11.5" IMO. Or if you only want one barrel length for everyone, go with 12.5". Attached File |
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[#42]
Originally Posted By pezboytate: I don't know how anyone is quantifying that 11.5" is as effective as 14.5". The longer the barrel, the better the round is going to perform. Now, is an 11.5" "good enough". Perhaps. That's a completely different question though. Is a 20" necessary? I don't think so. Is a 14.5" necessary? Maybe not either. The reason for the use of 10", 11.5", 14.5", and 10.3" barrels has always been compactness. With the URG-I, 11.5" isn't a ton shorter than 14.5". A 16" or 14.5" general purpose/DMR and 10.3" shorty would be a better selection than 14.5" and 11.5" IMO. Or if you only want one barrel length for everyone, go with 12.5". https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138579/_20210130_163510_JPG-1803705.JPG View Quote There's lots of data out there that shows a minimal gain from 11.5 to 14.5, especially compared to other length changes. |
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[#43]
Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: There's lots of data out there that shows a minimal gain from 11.5 to 14.5, especially compared to other length changes. View Quote Define minimal. Are you saying that anything shorter than 11.5" has a sharp drop off in velocity? Are you saying that 10.3" isn't effective but 11.5" is effective? Are you saying that 11.5" is as effective as 14.5"? M193: Attached File 20" 3306 We'll call 14.5" 3088 We'll call 11.5" 2887 We'll call 10.3" 2790 M855 Attached File 20" 3097 We'll call 14.5" 2894 We'll call 11.5” 2629 We'll call 10.3" 2521 Looks like you are losing almost as much velocity going from 14.5" to 11.5" as you do going from 20" to 14.5". I realize M855A1 will do a little better from a 14.5" but I don't have this kind of data for it. |
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[#44]
Originally Posted By pezboytate: Define minimal. Are you saying that anything shorter than 11.5" has a sharp drop off in velocity? Are you saying that 10.3" isn't effective but 11.5" is effective? Are you saying that 11.5" is as effective as 14.5"? M193: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138579/Screenshot_20210130-183404_png-1803906.JPG 20" 3306 We'll call 14.5" 3088 We'll call 11.5" 2887 We'll call 10.3" 2790 M855 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138579/Screenshot_20210130-183350_png-1803907.JPG 20" 3097 We'll call 14.5" 2894 We'll call 11.5” 2629 We'll call 10.3" 2521 Looks like you are losing almost as much velocity going from 14.5" to 11.5" as you do going from 20" to 14.5". I realize M855A1 will do a little better from a 14.5" but I don't have this kind of data for it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By pezboytate: Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: There's lots of data out there that shows a minimal gain from 11.5 to 14.5, especially compared to other length changes. Define minimal. Are you saying that anything shorter than 11.5" has a sharp drop off in velocity? Are you saying that 10.3" isn't effective but 11.5" is effective? Are you saying that 11.5" is as effective as 14.5"? M193: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138579/Screenshot_20210130-183404_png-1803906.JPG 20" 3306 We'll call 14.5" 3088 We'll call 11.5" 2887 We'll call 10.3" 2790 M855 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138579/Screenshot_20210130-183350_png-1803907.JPG 20" 3097 We'll call 14.5" 2894 We'll call 11.5” 2629 We'll call 10.3" 2521 Looks like you are losing almost as much velocity going from 14.5" to 11.5" as you do going from 20" to 14.5". I realize M855A1 will do a little better from a 14.5" but I don't have this kind of data for it. Im not saying or implying anything. There's data compiled and I believe some of it is in the ammo thread here. It shows a big jump from 10.3 to 11.5, then barely any increase from 11.5 to 14.5, I think it jumped up again at 16 and climbed to 20 but I can't remember. Again I'm not saying any barrel length is better than another, just going off of several sources of testing that show a smaller increase from 11.5 to 14.5 than any other change in length. |
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[#45]
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: The original USASOC URGI program was for the 14.5" only. The shorty was added on later. Originally supposed to be 10.3" But is now 11.5" Supposedly units are getting the 11.5" now. That picture above could be one. Its hard to tell, but looks like it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Originally Posted By Air_Soft_Contractor: Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: I guess this seems as good a place as any to ask. Since much of recent data shows a minimal performance increase from 11.5 to 14.5, why did they roll out a bunch of 14.5 urg-i's instead of a bunch of 11.5 urg-i's? What is the specific reason when it seems like ballistically there isn't much gain? It may not be just down to performance. The farther the muzzle is from the chamber, the lower the pressure and blast at the muzzle. You can really tell a difference between shooting an 11.5" barrel and a 14.5" barrel. The 14.5" barrel version also has a mid-length gas system, which proved to be more reliable than a carbine length gas system. This, They determined that midlength gas systems have fewer malfunctions in their testing. crane midlength vs carbine testing So that was pretty interesting. But that's only between the gas systems for the 14.5. No mention of 11.5. I guess my question is why even give the nsn for the 11.5? The original USASOC URGI program was for the 14.5" only. The shorty was added on later. Originally supposed to be 10.3" But is now 11.5" Supposedly units are getting the 11.5" now. That picture above could be one. Its hard to tell, but looks like it. So does anybody have any additional info on what usasoc deems the specific purpose for the 11.5 is? Or why there are the two lengths? It also seems like 95% of the pics in here with the 14.5 are unsuppressed, and the older 10.3s beside them are obviously suppressed. |
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[#46]
Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: So does anybody have any additional info on what usasoc deems the specific purpose for the 11.5 is? Or why there are the two lengths? It also seems like 95% of the pics in here with the 14.5 are unsuppressed, and the older 10.3s beside them are obviously suppressed. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Originally Posted By Air_Soft_Contractor: Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: I guess this seems as good a place as any to ask. Since much of recent data shows a minimal performance increase from 11.5 to 14.5, why did they roll out a bunch of 14.5 urg-i's instead of a bunch of 11.5 urg-i's? What is the specific reason when it seems like ballistically there isn't much gain? It may not be just down to performance. The farther the muzzle is from the chamber, the lower the pressure and blast at the muzzle. You can really tell a difference between shooting an 11.5" barrel and a 14.5" barrel. The 14.5" barrel version also has a mid-length gas system, which proved to be more reliable than a carbine length gas system. This, They determined that midlength gas systems have fewer malfunctions in their testing. crane midlength vs carbine testing So that was pretty interesting. But that's only between the gas systems for the 14.5. No mention of 11.5. I guess my question is why even give the nsn for the 11.5? The original USASOC URGI program was for the 14.5" only. The shorty was added on later. Originally supposed to be 10.3" But is now 11.5" Supposedly units are getting the 11.5" now. That picture above could be one. Its hard to tell, but looks like it. So does anybody have any additional info on what usasoc deems the specific purpose for the 11.5 is? Or why there are the two lengths? It also seems like 95% of the pics in here with the 14.5 are unsuppressed, and the older 10.3s beside them are obviously suppressed. One would venture for the same reason SOCOM has the 14.5 and 10.3 block II’s. (There was actually supposed to be an 11.5 in the SOPMOD B2 program as well but never came to fruition) One for CQB/tight quarter purposes. The other for higher bullet velocity to reach out and touch something. Mission dependent, take one or the other. That’s what seems logical anyways |
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I survived the California MagRush 3/29/19 - 4/5/19
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[#47]
Guys w/ block IIs, how do y'all like the URG-I compared to blockIIs? Thinking about converting mine over.
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IG @bayou_bengal-rifles
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[#48]
Originally Posted By LsuJon: Guys w/ block IIs, how do y'all like the URG-I compared to blockIIs? Thinking about converting mine over. View Quote Weight is slightly less if both have a M4/Gov barrel. Diameter of handguard is slightly less. I'm old school and like M1913 and weapon mounted M203s so I'm not getting rid of my RIS IIs. Keep the Block II and build an URG-I, obviously. |
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[#49]
Originally Posted By pezboytate: Weight is slightly less if both have a M4/Gov barrel. Diameter of handguard is slightly less. I'm old school and like M1913 and weapon mounted M203s so I'm not getting rid of my RIS IIs. Keep the Block II and build an URG-I, obviously. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By pezboytate: Originally Posted By LsuJon: Guys w/ block IIs, how do y'all like the URG-I compared to blockIIs? Thinking about converting mine over. Weight is slightly less if both have a M4/Gov barrel. Diameter of handguard is slightly less. I'm old school and like M1913 and weapon mounted M203s so I'm not getting rid of my RIS IIs. Keep the Block II and build an URG-I, obviously. Get them all, keep them all. I still love my cheese graters, RAS and RIS |
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[#50]
I mean obviously get both, just don't have the means to fully kit out both uppers at the moment lol. The goal is to have both eventually (including 11.5 if that ever fully materializes) but wondering if the juice is worth the squeeze RN.
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IG @bayou_bengal-rifles
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