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Official Arizona Regulators triggers thread (Page 3 of 22)
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Originally Posted By gurn-blanston: So, what you are all saying is that if you remove parts from these devices, they don't operate as designed? If you forget your disconnector spring on a regular AR FCG does it operate correctly? Is it the manufacturer's fault you didn't follow instructions? your sarcasm is duly noted, however when the original creator of the item designed for it and openly called out for it to be easily removable. Then you’ve created a different situation. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: So what exactly was said by this ben guy? I keep seeing this name pop up in these threads. I remember seeing deleted posts in one thread, but was too late and never saw what they said. I am guessing there was some poop flinging? |
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Originally Posted By GrimesSU: That doesn't really help those who are not paid members. Originally Posted By GrimesSU: Originally Posted By 11boomboom: There's a team one, too. It's where the main discussion is. That doesn't really help those who are not paid members. The discussion there is just as helpful as this one, just more people discussing it. 
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Originally Posted By EDL: Honestly, not really sure what we're arguing over since the other threads got locked, JD disappeared and no one is coming forward with info. Is he banned or did he rage quit? @01ZULU |
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Originally Posted By TNC: Is he banned or did he rage quit? @01ZULU He could be rather abrasive at times and I think some statements he had made in the past led them to believe maintaining a relationship with him could be bad for business later. |
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: The owner of AZ regulators was involved in some legal issues and made some pretty wild statements. Ben had dug them up and posted them. I believe at some point his own mother had a restraining order against him. Wow. He always struck me as a curmudgeon that ruffled some peoples feathers. But I can understand a lot of grumpy old men, as I am 42 and well on my way to becoming one, if I am not there already. He did seem to take it to 11 sometimes. Had no idea about the other stuff. |
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Originally Posted By UTO: So let me get this straight 1. If you remove the disconnector he sells with the 3 Pos or any other model, youll get slam fire if lts left out? Also why would anyone not put it back in after dry fire fitment/safety/function check? 2. If you have the 3 pos and leave out his “regulator” youd still have a safe/ semi firearm albeit with a 5.5lb trigger as long as the selector isnt pushed all the way to forced reset. Ive asked some knowledgeable members as im always trying to learn and ive gotten some different answers…… Not debating anyones knowledge im generally curious why someone would leave the disconnector out other than getting it to function safely at set up, and am still uncertain what would happen if his 3 pos is fired in forced reset with the selector in that mode with the Regulator device removed? Thanks for any answers as always. So is the debate on page 1 starting at post #22 and continuing on through to at least this quoted post settled? If so, what is the thinking about the legality of this product? I have not seen a clear explanation of why this is not a forced reset instead of multiple rounds with a single function of the trigger. Has anybody made such an explanation but I just missed it? In installation method #3, mentioned on page 1, is the trigger not resetting as the bolt cycles? If the removal of the disconnector is the issue - well, I do not think simply removing a part from an otherwise legal semiautomatic renders the gun now an illegal machinegun. If I am wrong, then somebody please explain it to me. I am having trouble following the debate over this product. |
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: It's an FRT as designed. If you don't install all the parts you can get hammer follow just like you will with a regular AR15 FCG if you leave out the disconnector. This sounds like it has nothing to do with the Arizona Regulator at all, if I understand your post correctly. Am I right? |
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Originally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: This sounds like it has nothing to do with the Arizona Regulator at all, if I understand your post correctly. Am I right? |
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: I'm not sure what all caused ar15.com to part ways with him. IMO it's less to do with the function of his design and more to do with his conduct here and unearthed previous legal statements that didn't put him in the best light. Oh, no, I was commenting about your post, regarding removing the disconnector, where you write that doing that in a regular semi auto has the same result. I do not see that as an issue with the Arizona Regulator trigger, that is, not a legal issue, so long as the trigger forces a reset when installed as designed. |
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Originally Posted By azmp5: Sooo.... should I just make a thread in GD so the same people can argue their personal feelings about the "legality" of the AZR like in every other AZR post so they can leave this one? Sure. Then they can bicker in both. Talk about a dumpster fire. |
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Originally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Oh, no, I was commenting about your post, regarding removing the disconnector, where you write that doing that in a regular semi auto has the same result. I do not see that as an issue with the Arizona Regulator trigger, that is, not a legal issue, so long as the trigger forces a reset when installed as designed. The issue is that the AZR is NOT a trigger, it is a conversion device, and it is specifically marketed as being removeable. So, if you remove your disconnector, then remove your AZR, what are you left with? 
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Originally Posted By Koolpenguin89: The issue is that the AZR is NOT a trigger, it is a conversion device, and it is specifically marketed as being removeable. So, if you remove your disconnector, then remove your AZR, what are you left with? |
https://www.ArizonaShooting.org
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Originally Posted By Koolpenguin89: The issue is that the AZR is NOT a trigger, it is a conversion device, and it is specifically marketed as being removeable. So, if you remove your disconnector, then remove your AZR, what are you left with? The 2 position is marketed as removable. The three position he clearly states you need to use all the parts together. |
Even though it may seem that the OP is mentally disabled, calling him a "retard" is a personal attack. -DKProf
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This is bud light marketing, meets Ocean Gate engineering with Sig public relations level of quality. -RC03
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Originally Posted By jtb33: "Conversion device"? What exactly do you think it "converts"? Originally Posted By jtb33: "Conversion device"? What exactly do you think it "converts"? It converts a standard trigger to a forced reset trigger...right?  Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot: The 2 position is marketed as removable. The three position he clearly states you need to use all the parts together. Ok? |
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Originally Posted By Koolpenguin89: It converts a standard trigger to a forced reset trigger...right? Ok? |
https://www.ArizonaShooting.org
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Moved my original 2 position regulator to my former BumpSAW. Function check is good. Now I just need a range day. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By jtb33: But that's not a "thing" as defined in law or ATF, etc. Kinda like saying that cerakote converts your AR to "camouflage". Or putting a scope on it converts it to a "sniper rifle". It doesn't "convert" it to anything more than adding a Geissele trigger to it does. Edit: actually, I've decided to leave this conversation. Y'all are weirdos |
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Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII: What bothered me was the "disconnect override" mode he described. That was NOT a forced reset it simply pushed the disconnector down and allowed the hammer to fall without moving the trigger. |
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: My understanding is it always forces reset. It can pass that reset through the disconnector or direct to the trigger. But mechanically it pushes down only while the bolt carrier is back and as soon as the bolt carrier closes it no longer provides downward pressure on the trigger. For those of you that say the AZR is a problem because if it isn't installed, but other parts are hammer follow can happen - I'll say it again, there is long time precedence that the RDIAS is legal. The RDIAS installs in an AR with M16 parts. The RDIAS can come out, leaving all M16 parts in the gun (allowing hammer follow if fired in the third position). As far as I know, no one has ever been prosecuted from removing their RDIAS. On top of that, who doesn't fully reassemble their firearm if taken apart? This whole argument doesn't even make sense. If you think the AZR is illegal, then you must take the position than an RDIAS is illegal, but I'd bet you'd buy one if you could for $300. |
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The original 2-position AZR forces the reset on the backstroke of the bolt. Thus the trigger reset happens before the disconnector can even come into play. The disconnector can only grab on to the hammer IF you continue to hold the trigger back in the fire position as the bolt moves forward. That is the only way the disconnector can grab the hammer. AND The only way to release the hammer from the disconnector is to release/reset the trigger. AND as the hammer moves forward it is caught by the sear preventing a slam fire/auto potential. BUT to repeat, the AZR already reset the trigger. So "technically" the disconnector is a moot part when a 2 pos AZR is installed. BUT as others stated the concern was what happens if you run the AZR in Method 3 which shows the disco completely removed AND you decide to remove the AZR and run the AR without it. That was one of the concerns brought up. I see ZERO reason to run it that way. Again this is just about the 2 position version. |
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This isn’t a hard thing. But some of us aren’t willing to push the issue. Buy at your own risk and do what you want. Live free or bag for permission. I don’t care if y’all drill the damn third hole. But everyone has to find the spot they are comfortable with. Thats as simple as it gets. The AZ 2pos is pretty damn safe looking to most people. The RB trigger is pretty awesome overall too. Would be even more so if it wasn’t owned by a sue happy yahoo that collaborated with the federal government to try to limit the exposure to just his company. Anyone make a FRT for the P320 yet? That could be the first 4 position. Safe. Semi. FRT. Untouched. |
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Posted this in the Team thread, but relevant here as well. * * * * * Ok, I got my 3-position AZ Regulator (AZR-15A1) today in the mail. Installed it it per manufacturer's instructions in an FN surplus 20" upper and an FN commercial lower with an A2 stock and rifle-length buffer. I believe this set up is as close to "mil-spec" as I can get. Here's my observations: 1. The trigger pull is atrocious, lots of take-up in the trigger, plenty of creep, and no real wall. 2. In semi-auto, the disconnector works as intended... however, there is a false reset that feels like a real reset, but isn't. Actual reset is long and definite with a loud "sproong" feel. 3. In 3rd position, forced reset works as intended. 4. If you leave out the dingus from the upper, and switch to 3rd position, you absolutely will get hammer follow if you keep constant rearward pressure to the rear on the trigger. 5. Closing upper and lower with the dingus installed requires a nylon faced hammer to drive in the rear takedown pin. Without the dingus, I can push the takedown pin and out with bare fingers. 6. I changed out the included .308 hammer spring with a 5.56 hammer spring and it didn't have much effect on trigger pull, either weight or quality. Here's my conclusions: 1. The only thing the 3 position safety lever does is engage or disengage the disconnector. 2. This set up is forced reset all the time, but in semi-auto, the disconnector is still engaged and catches the hammer; 3. For a guy that normally doesn't mind mil-spec trigger pulls, this one is particular bad. I love my 2-position AZ Regulator; this one, the 3-position, I'm ambivalent about, at best, and most likely, this one is going to go into the spare parts bin until I have time to look it over longer. EDITED TO ADD: With regard to # 5 on my observations, I swapped to a different FN surplus 20" upper and didn't have this problem with tight takedown pins, so that may just be a problem specific to that single upper. |
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Moved my original 2 position regulator to my former BumpSAW. Function check is good. Now I just need a range day. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/57761/1000020606_jpg-3616076.JPG |
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On my 3 position, the trigger isnt bad. Hard pull but my gauge showed about 7-8 lbs. I debated on swapping in my JP springs to see but I haven't shot it yet so I figured I'd wait. The only thing im confused on *again, haven't shot it so idk if it matters* In semi mode I can rack the CH back and let it go and if I pull the trigger and let go it fires normal. But if I rack the CH handle back and pull the trigger (but hold it back) it fires once. Keeping the trigger pulled back, if i rack the CH back again, the trigger "resets" but its like a false reset. I can let go of the trigger and it wont fire, but you hear the disconnector click and (im assuming) resetting the hammer and then I can pull the trigger again and it will fire. Which im guessing is what floor is describing in #2. Upper wise, its been the tightest tolerance fitting (in a good way) with zero slop and the uppers fit fine. |
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Originally Posted By floof: Posted this in the Team thread, but relevant here as well. * * * * * Ok, I got my 3-position AZ Regulator (AZR-15A1) today in the mail. Installed it it per manufacturer's instructions in an FN surplus 20" upper and an FN commercial lower with an A2 stock and rifle-length buffer. I believe this set up is as close to "mil-spec" as I can get. Here's my observations: 1. The trigger pull is atrocious, lots of take-up in the trigger, plenty of creep, and no real wall. 2. In semi-auto, the disconnector works as intended... however, there is a false reset that feels like a real reset, but isn't. Actual reset is long and definite with a loud "sproong" feel. 3. In 3rd position, forced reset works as intended. 4. If you leave out the dingus from the upper, and switch to 3rd position, you absolutely will get hammer follow if you keep constant rearward pressure to the rear on the trigger. 5. Closing upper and lower with the dingus installed requires a nylon faced hammer to drive in the rear takedown pin. Without the dingus, I can push the takedown pin and out with bare fingers. 6. I changed out the included .308 hammer spring with a 5.56 hammer spring and it didn't have much effect on trigger pull, either weight or quality. Here's my conclusions: 1. The only thing the 3 position safety lever does is engage or disengage the disconnector. 2. This set up is forced reset all the time, but in semi-auto, the disconnector is still engaged and catches the hammer; 3. For a guy that normally doesn't mind mil-spec trigger pulls, this one is particular bad. I love my 2-position AZ Regulator; this one, the 3-position, I'm ambivalent about, at best, and most likely, this one is going to go into the spare parts bin until I have time to look it over longer. EDITED TO ADD: With regard to # 5 on my observations, I swapped to a different FN surplus 20" upper and didn't have this problem with tight takedown pins, so that may just be a problem specific to that single upper. You know, an enterprising man with a bit of thought can modify a better trigger to use in this setup. Or so I’ve been told 
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Originally Posted By EDL: Wow, that's not a great review rating, but as you said, it's a sample size of one for that one upper. Still doesn't ignore that really crappy trigger. IME, milspec triggers suck. Out of 20+ lower builds with milspec parts kits I have had one trigger that was as smooth as an ALG ACT trigger (or Tom's or other Schmid nickel triggers). The rest worked, but were a gritty, long, hard pull. |
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Originally Posted By azmp5: Sooo.... should I just make a thread in GD so the same people can argue their personal feelings about the "legality" of the AZR like in every other AZR post so they can leave this one? The answer is, we don't know for certain, and everyone is a little nervous and on edge about it. That's the best and most complete answer you'll find. There is no yes or no here. |
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Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: First time I've seen a good picture of that. What are the details? As she sits right now she has the following parts: Delton 16" rifle gas heavy chrome lined barrel. Kac m5 rail Spikes nitride rifle gas tube Brownells lightweight m16 bcg Red extended firing pin Sprinco orange spring Standard carbine buffer ALG advanced combat trigger Gl shock stock Bcm charging handle with rtv mod Moe grip Bad lever Burris 3x prism in a GDI mount Arizona Regulator When they banned bumpstocks I took off my home made bumpstock and added the GL Shok stock. I had a JARD adjustable trigger in it set with a really short reset. I had a special timing control system in it using a turned down safety with a lever that stuck up and was pushed by the bolt carrier. So when the trigger reset the safety lever would lock the trigger forward until the bolt closed. When the grip was held loosely, the recoil of the rifle would reset the trigger, the auto safety would come on until the bolt closed, the spring in the stock would push the gun back forward and my finger would pull the trigger as soon as the bolt closed. |
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Originally Posted By floof: Posted this in the Team thread, but relevant here as well. * * * * * Ok, I got my 3-position AZ Regulator (AZR-15A1) today in the mail. Installed it it per manufacturer's instructions in an FN surplus 20" upper and an FN commercial lower with an A2 stock and rifle-length buffer. I believe this set up is as close to "mil-spec" as I can get. Here's my observations: 1. The trigger pull is atrocious, lots of take-up in the trigger, plenty of creep, and no real wall. 2. In semi-auto, the disconnector works as intended... however, there is a false reset that feels like a real reset, but isn't. Actual reset is long and definite with a loud "sproong" feel. 3. In 3rd position, forced reset works as intended. 4. If you leave out the dingus from the upper, and switch to 3rd position, you absolutely will get hammer follow if you keep constant rearward pressure to the rear on the trigger. 5. Closing upper and lower with the dingus installed requires a nylon faced hammer to drive in the rear takedown pin. Without the dingus, I can push the takedown pin and out with bare fingers. 6. I changed out the included .308 hammer spring with a 5.56 hammer spring and it didn't have much effect on trigger pull, either weight or quality. Here's my conclusions: 1. The only thing the 3 position safety lever does is engage or disengage the disconnector. 2. This set up is forced reset all the time, but in semi-auto, the disconnector is still engaged and catches the hammer; 3. For a guy that normally doesn't mind mil-spec trigger pulls, this one is particular bad. I love my 2-position AZ Regulator; this one, the 3-position, I'm ambivalent about, at best, and most likely, this one is going to go into the spare parts bin until I have time to look it over longer. EDITED TO ADD: With regard to # 5 on my observations, I swapped to a different FN surplus 20" upper and didn't have this problem with tight takedown pins, so that may just be a problem specific to that single upper. Mine doesn't do that. It also feels like an average milspec trigger. I wonder if maybe yours is different somehow. Are you using all of the parts in the bag? |
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Originally Posted By 11boomboom: Mine doesn't do that. It also feels like an average milspec trigger. I wonder if maybe yours is different somehow. Are you using all of the parts in the bag? Yessir, all the parts were installed according to the manufacturer's instructions. |
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: She's been through a few different stages over the years. As she sits right now she has the following parts: Delton 16" rifle gas heavy chrome lined barrel. Kac m5 rail Spikes nitride rifle gas tube Brownells lightweight m16 bcg Red extended firing pin Sprinco orange spring Standard carbine buffer ALG advanced combat trigger Gl shock stock Bcm charging handle with rtv mod Moe grip Bad lever Burris 3x prism in a GDI mount Arizona Regulator When they banned bumpstocks I took off my home made bumpstock and added the GL Shok stock. I had a JARD adjustable trigger in it set with a really short reset. I had a special timing control system in it using a turned down safety with a lever that stuck up and was pushed by the bolt carrier. So when the trigger reset the safety lever would lock the trigger forward until the bolt closed. When the grip was held loosely, the recoil of the rifle would reset the trigger, the auto safety would come on until the bolt closed, the spring in the stock would push the gun back forward and my finger would pull the trigger as soon as the bolt closed. 
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Tom Sawyer.
"If The Rules brought us to this, what use are they?"
"If The Rules brought us to this, what use are they?"
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Originally Posted By floof: Yessir, all the parts were installed according to the manufacturer's instructions. Originally Posted By floof: Originally Posted By 11boomboom: Mine doesn't do that. It also feels like an average milspec trigger. I wonder if maybe yours is different somehow. Are you using all of the parts in the bag? Yessir, all the parts were installed according to the manufacturer's instructions. Weird. It's probably some interference or QC issue. The only issue I've had has been installing the hammer spring spring wrong getting reset issues in my setup. Everyone else seems to have issues when mixing components with non-AZR parts. |
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Originally Posted By 11boomboom: Weird. It's probably some interference or QC issue. The only issue I've had has been installing the hammer spring spring wrong getting reset issues in my setup. Everyone else seems to have issues when mixing components with non-AZR parts. Installed the complete set of parts into another rifle, one that previously worked 100% with the 2 position AZR. Same issues, terrible trigger pull and a false reset in semi-auto. In fact, if you pin the trigger to the rear in semi-auto and try to cycle the rifle by the charging handle, the BCG will find a hard stop point. I’m assuming this is the rear of the trigger being raised, pushing up on the lower leg of the dingus, not letting the upper cam surface lay back as the BCG moves rearward. Letting slight pressure off the trigger will allow the bolt to travel full rearward. With the 2 position AZR, this symptom in forced reset would mean the lower leg needed shortening for clearance. During the BCG cycle in semi-auto, the trigger will moves forward about 2mm but doesn’t reset and when the BCG goes into battery, the trigger moves back to the full rearward position and is dead (expected in semi-auto) until you let it out to reset. What I don’t like is the forced false reset before actual reset in semi-auto. It’s basically trigger slap to a lesser degree. I made a quick video showing the cycle of operations; it may be more illustrative than I can describe. Once again, 3rd position works as intended, just with a crunchy crummy trigger pull. https://youtube.com/shorts/nJyAko7DwKU?si=oVK1GbBw0LkGuPxV |
Official Arizona Regulators triggers thread (Page 3 of 22)
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