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Posted: 4/6/2022 10:40:41 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aware of all that, and it sucks, but keep in mind that none of that applies if there is no brace. The struggle is adding an "approved" brace, and having to jump through all of the BS hoops. And even then be declared an unregistered SBR at the whim of an agent. It is all a scam designed around intimidation and deterence. They want you to be too scared to not just comply, pay the tax and add your name to their list. |
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Posted: 4/6/2022 3:52:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Okay, so let's say I have a 9mm AR with a rifle-length buffer tube and a 10.5" barrel. Would that be fine under the new rules?
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Posted: 4/6/2022 4:45:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay, so let's say I have a 9mm AR with a rifle-length buffer tube and a 10.5" barrel. Would that be fine under the new rules? No brace, no problem. If you add anything to rear of the RE, tennis ball or cane tip or etc, to soften the blow it might be considered a "stock" and therefore an unregistered SBR. I have a 10.5" with a 9" pistol tube that exceeds 26" and sports a VFG. This is an "other", according to the rules that be. I have a 9.5" upper that also shares that lower that is a "pistol" as it is under 26" OAL and has no VFG as that would not be permissible according to the existing rules. Your rig OAL would be over 26" and would fall under the "other" classification if you were to add a VFG. AFT doesn't think that a "pistol" should be longer than 26", nor held with two hands. Yet, they will hold their Glocks with two hands when they shoot them. Go figger.... |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 5:02:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No brace, no problem. If you add anything to rear of the RE, tennis ball or cane tip or etc, to soften the blow it might be considered a "stock" and therefore an unregistered SBR. I have a 10.5" with a 9" pistol tube that exceeds 26" and sports a VFG. This is an "other", according to the rules that be. I have a 9.5" upper that also shares that lower that is a "pistol" as it is under 26" OAL and has no VFG as that would not be permissible according to the existing rules. Your rig OAL would be over 26" and would fall under the "other" classification if you were to add a VFG. AFT doesn't think that a "pistol" should be longer than 26", nor held with two hands. Yet, they will hold their Glocks with two hands when they shoot them. Go figger.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Okay, so let's say I have a 9mm AR with a rifle-length buffer tube and a 10.5" barrel. Would that be fine under the new rules? No brace, no problem. If you add anything to rear of the RE, tennis ball or cane tip or etc, to soften the blow it might be considered a "stock" and therefore an unregistered SBR. I have a 10.5" with a 9" pistol tube that exceeds 26" and sports a VFG. This is an "other", according to the rules that be. I have a 9.5" upper that also shares that lower that is a "pistol" as it is under 26" OAL and has no VFG as that would not be permissible according to the existing rules. Your rig OAL would be over 26" and would fall under the "other" classification if you were to add a VFG. AFT doesn't think that a "pistol" should be longer than 26", nor held with two hands. Yet, they will hold their Glocks with two hands when they shoot them. Go figger.... What's the legal implication of an "other" in Ohio? Is a braceless, stockless AR over 26" OAL considered a pistol in Ohio, or is it considered a "sawed-off firearm?" I want something I can keep loaded in my car without breaking the law. ETA: Nevermind, it's not an issue unless I add a VFG. |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 7:28:33 AM EDT
[#5]
Everyone please stop with the points nonsense. The whole points worksheet is worthless. It says, right at the top:
“NOTE: The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives reserves the right to preclude classification as a pistol with a “stabilizing braces” for any firearm that achieves an apparent qualifying score but is an attempt to make a “short-barreled rifle” and circumvent the GCA or NFA.” That's all you need to know. Your pistol could have literally 0 points on both sections and some random bureaucrat agent just decides for no good reason it's an SBR and off to jail you go pending a court date. The rest of the sheet is there to distract you. No brace? Even with no brace an agent can claim it's an SBR if it suits their whim/ego/quotas. They may lose in court, but why should they care? They don't have to pay the thousands of $ in legal fees or court costs. To see how low they can go, look into the "Blackbeard" pistol court case. They "misrepresented" the LOP, lost, and had to pay his court costs, but dragged Mr. Wright through the whole process anyway. It cost them nothing to do it. |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 7:57:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Become ungovernable
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Posted: 4/9/2022 8:05:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry, it was a Marine/JAG.  https://www.ammoland.com/2021/09/us-military-courts-rules-bump-stocks-are-not-machine-guns/ |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 8:08:49 AM EDT
[#8]
And just to close the circle on this subject, what happens when you put a brace on a 16" carbine?
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Posted: 4/9/2022 8:53:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And just to close the circle on this subject, what happens when you put a brace on a 16" carbine? It becomes a pistol. A rather ungainly pistol, designed to be fired with one hand. If that weapon has a vertical foregrip, it then becomes an other type of “firearm” designed to be fired with two hands, and not from the shoulder. |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 11:31:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Even with no brace an agent can claim it's an SBR if it suits their whim/ego/quotas. Not so sure about this. The one thing that I think will cause them trouble is that first statement. You can't post guidelines for people to follow to avoid prosecution, and then prosecute them anyway even though they meet your criteria. That is the very definition of entrapment. This will get ironed out in court so we will just wait and see.... |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 1:30:07 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It becomes a pistol. A rather ungainly pistol, designed to be fired with one hand. If that weapon has a vertical foregrip, it then becomes an other type of “firearm” designed to be fired with two hands, and not from the shoulder. Incorrect! Once a rifle, always a rifle. A pistol can be made into a rifle, and back to a pistol, but NOT the other way around. |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 6:49:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Incorrect! Once a rifle, always a rifle. A pistol can be made into a rifle, and back to a pistol, but NOT the other way around. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It becomes a pistol. A rather ungainly pistol, designed to be fired with one hand. If that weapon has a vertical foregrip, it then becomes an other type of “firearm” designed to be fired with two hands, and not from the shoulder. Incorrect! Once a rifle, always a rifle. A pistol can be made into a rifle, and back to a pistol, but NOT the other way around. Once it is documented as a rifle, yes. If a tree falls… |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 8:28:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once it is documented as a rifle, yes. If a tree falls  |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 1:16:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not so sure about this. The one thing that I think will cause them trouble is that first statement. You can't post guidelines for people to follow to avoid prosecution, and then prosecute them anyway even though they meet your criteria. That is the very definition of entrapment. This will get ironed out in court so we will just wait and see.... I'm not holding my breath... |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 9:09:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Incorrect! Once a rifle, always a rifle. A pistol can be made into a rifle, and back to a pistol, but NOT the other way around. You are both right and wrong. FIRST a rifle, always a rifle 
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