Hello,

I’m trying to find a little bit more information on my Colt CC 12 barrel. BR2 mentions it but is kinda vague. Really all I’m wanting to know is what year(s) were these produced/ used?

Thanks in advance!

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I dont recall ever seeing one before.

Is the chamber chrome? Is that what that stands for?

Chamber is chrome, bore is not.
Here is what BR has to say about it:

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I have never seen this barrel. Pretty cool. What book is that?

I have never seen a barrel marked CC or CB. Very interesting...

Black Rifle 2 is the book. I fully recommend it!

I think that article is outdated and inaccurate.  It says that the 1/14 Winchester barrels were unmarked, which we know not to be true. It says that the reason an “s” is found on some barrels is unknown, and we now know that the “s” found on some Colt barrels indicates that the barrel is from an SP1. It says that “CC” and “CB” are “COMMON” markings on barrels, yet we never see these markings.  I believe the article should say “MP C” and “MP B”, because those markings fit the narrative, and ARE common. It says that “CC” markings are found on early 1/12 barrels, but we know that early 1/12 barrels DID NOT have chrome chambers, and, by the time chrome chambers came into existence, Colt had done away with the “12” marking near the end of the barrel. The font of the “CC” shown in the OP’s photo do not match any of Colts “C”’s that I have ever seen.  My best guess about the OP’s “CC 12” barrel is that it it a commercial barrel, with one of the C’s standing for the manufacturer (NOT Colt), the other C standing for “chrome chamber” and the “12” standing for the barrel twist.  Another possibility is that someone read that article and decided to stamp up a barrel to match the article’s description.

Well I had to grab my copy of Black Rifle II. Chris Bartocci does identify CB as chrome bore and chamber (early Colt and GM Hydromatic) and CC = chrome chamber, early rifles. And that the chrome-lined chamber was adopted on 5/26/1967.

Trusting that Chris did excellent research as usual and if the barrel in question does have a chrome chamber but not chrome bore - and that the font of the CC is different from Colt then maybe what fits is this is a GM Hydramatic barrel from around 1968-69. (I certainly admit the early style "12" near the end of the barrel is a head scratcher.)

Thanks for the replies. I’m currently having someone get in touch with Chris Bartocci to see if he has any more info. I’ll be sure the information gets posted here.

Is the face of the barrel extension C marked?

Not that I can see.

Is this the one that was on gunbroker a few weeks ago?

I’ve had this for several months now.

Is there a marking between the legs of the FSB? Either M VP or MP?

There is nothing between the legs. As far as I can tell the only markings are the CC and the 12.

I'd lean more toward what Tom said from what I'm seeing.  None of those stampings match anything I have that's Colt M-16 either. Did it come from a serious collector with any provenance?  One if those items that one can only hope / wish it's the grail.  Seen a lot of grail over the years and none of those to date.  Always a first time for everything.  Super cool if it's legit,  not so if you paid top coins an it isn't.  Thanks for sharing.  Always cool to look at something not so main street.

This was purchased from John W. Renick (Commbloc). He seems to have a lot of very cool stuff. Has been great to buy from. I will contact him to see if he can tell me if there’s any back story on it.

Doubt you will find any of his parts in a serious collection unfortunately.  Lots of misrepresentation in his ads generally.  Sorry you had to find out the hard way.  Seller is known for looking for the special buyer with too many disposable coins.  Hindsight is generally better than foresight. Appeared no one else had the nads to tell you.

It COULD be original. The “12” looks normal but the “CC” leaves me curious. The progression went:

M VP 12 -> MP 12 -> MP C -> C MP C

My guess is that if this were real, it would fall between MP 12 and MP C but that would then leave me wondering why your barrel does not have an MP marking.

Was there ever an effort to apply chrome to barrels that originally were not made with it? Just a wild thought that perhaps the font of the 12 and CC not matching is that the barrel was reworked with chrome added and then appropriately marked after the fact.

It would still be MP marked between the FSB and VP stamped on the extension, I would think.

Was there ever an effort to apply chrome to barrels that originally were not made with it? Just a wild thought that perhaps the font of the 12 and CC not matching is that the barrel was reworked with chrome added and then appropriately marked after the fact.

Would have to re-machine bore & chamber as chrome bore and chamber barrel machining is different spec /dimension than non chrome bore and chamber due to added thickness of chrome after machining.  Same with current production light machine gun barrels where chrome is advertised as double chrome lined bore or twice as thick as current chrome milspec for M-4 an advertised up to 20K round count service life not 8 Kish for M-4.  

It has to remain the same .223-.224 caliber diameter for bullet to safely exit the barrel, so metal is removed from the barrel to accommodate for chrome lining during manufacture.  Pretty sure Tom nailed it.  If barrel had come from seller TALC or such I might have a different opinion.  More than a couple posts here questioning seller's wares over the years.

If he had come here and asked first?  Answers would have probably been the same.  Hopefully seller will make it good.

i got an email from wes to add info here on what i know ill chime in. cdenmark sounds as if youre accusing me of stamping barrels and can ya explain what i did to upset you? sounds like some serious drama.

the complete upper was all unfired and minty correct surplus however had a drilled out front pin for sp1 that would not fit an sp1 due to being badly drilled out of spec obviously by a home builder. i dont think the upper ever got shot. the barrel was purchased by me records show off of no reserve gunbroker auction as an early ''m16a2 upper'' auction lot number 756240732 on Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 6:14 PM.  seller did not know or mention that its upper rec. had been ruined.

at that point in time i was a 20 year ak collector and going into my 3rd year as a colt a1 collector. i knew enough to buy the item and not pass it up even with blurry pics and next to no description. it was listed for quite a while on no reserve auction and no one really fought me for it. i pulled from it what i needed and listed the barrel as a rare item and again it sat online far longer than expected for what it was.

the upper i got to dismantle part by part in person and it had the following. all parts factory mint except upper front lug drilled off center.

early bend gas tube.

no forge code upper with forward assist in the unusual dark grey color matching exactly to 1966 and 1967 sp1 rifles

a1 hider

rounded edges small pad a1 port door

early colt ratchett sided bcg-cant remember small details if what all firing pin.

hand guards were early black and mint.

keep in mind i sell the parts i dont need to collectors and i can see why 3 of you guys now gang up on me like im ivan drago or something. i get it. i dont use flat head firing pins in my personal guns. i sell them off to collectors in need and do the same typically with non chromed barrels and slick sided uppers. i part out minty sp1 and rebuild them as battle worn guns that makes some of you guys cringe i get that. i got into colts by needing to clone m16a1s i took pics of in philippines. my guns all reflect that although the collecting grew faster than expected.

keep in mind i shoot mine more than most as i hold shoots and do daily jungle walks on my familys 200 acre river bottoms farm here in ohio. my guns may not be year specific all correct 1967 sp1 but i love them more than a gun you could hang on a wall. try putting a colt lmg upper on a color matching sp1 lower and fostech binary trigger youll see what i mean.

now on the flip side of that i did see one of you guys part out an all original battle worn colt 601 upper from philippines with tagalog trench art name engraved on side that matches identical trench art to one of my colt xm4 uppers. thats what i collect is philippines battle worn colts and that was my holy grail you parted out bob. i laughed and shrugged it off. i didnt go around back biting or anything when i noticed you did that.

additionally when i met you bob i knew nothing of early colt m16 bipods and was an ak guy knowing nothing of early m16. you wanted my bipods for 15 each in pouch and not 20 each if you bought both then i see you flipping one of em for hundreds due to a rare marking. thats just what i observed.

i got those bipods in a final truck load from john stemple for next to nothing when he died so no skin off my back. that was my first encounter with you. ive always treated you fairly when buying and selling at shows as you have me in person. i think all online major forums like arfcom. akforum etc could be better if we didnt make accusations based on assumptions.

cdenmark im not copying proofmarks just yet my machinist background and gunsmithing college i could but i have a full time job just sorting parts ive been buying last few years. i sort clean grade and store items in dry mouse proof storage then price items as quick as i can after pics or hauling to shows etc. i rarely get free time for builds or anything im just a one man crew basically doing alot on my plate. ive been offline here so long i had to wake the wife to help find my login.

last time i had someone alert me there was back biting going on about me on arfcom it was same thing. no wonder this forum section is so small. it should be bigger than it is by now figuring the size of the retro market being so commonly popular.
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sitrep, no i didnt stamp a cc12 barrel from an equally expensive mp12 barrel or any other cheaper imagination. barrel was pulled from an honestly mint except front lug ''all correct'' like upper and obviously unfired surplused upper it felt like the more you handled it in person. yes back biting sucks to fellow forum members. yes i have my own conclusions why things are the way they are.

m16indiana i keep calling you bob its tom. sorry ive always been bad with names you know that. i dont keep doing it on purpose ive never put much faith in a name but i never forget a face thats just the way i am. i dont keep doing that to disrespect you it comes automatic cause i actually thought you were tom from a decade ago.

for the record i got accused by a member of this forum who acted like my friend via email i forget the user name now. the accuser then online here claimed i was selling c- stocks that werent c-stocks. tom you ganged up on me online then for the first time and forced me to login here and prove and defend myself. i bought rows of pallets of c and d stocks in 2014. i have no reason to mistakenly identify any rare transitional c stock variant and have no shortage of any type of c stock misshapen front bottom ledge or not.

the only other thing i can think of you guys attacked me on was selectors. thats a pretty good track record for being an ak collector learning as fast as i did. is there any other item you guys know of thats going to ruin my reputation? keep in mind im the only guy ive seen online have a return policy like i do since my first sale in 2002. whats you guys' return policy do you sell items and allow customers to return em with very little to no questions asked at any time in future?

why accuse me of being so evil to say every last item i sell is suspect? am i literally ivan drago now? he gets a bad wrap for not defending himself online im convinced of it now. ive sold to the guy in person at shows and hes never swindled me yet all i hear is back biting on the forums when hes never around to reply.

you guys do realize you have a niche here and the whole world reads this and believes whatever you go to gurus type right? if you guys are going to utterly destroy my name online show me what ive done and we can fix it.

if nothing else good came from this. my new motto cdenmark- ''i sell colt surplus so rare the gurus on arfcom claim they cant be real!''

@AK47_COMMBLOC

John;

    First, I have NEVER purchased ANY collectible M16 bipod OR case from you.  One time you saw me selling a rare variety and told me about the Stemple bipods that you once had, and you wondered if there were any rare varieties mixed in, but I never saw them, or purchased them.  Secondly, in my opinion, you DID sell a member here a type D stock that you advertised as a type C.   We all make mistakes. I did not accuse you of fraud, and said that I was sure it was a mistake and you would give him his money back, which I believe you did.  Third, I DID “poo-poo” this “CC” barrel before I knew it had any connection to you.  I still don’t like it, but that is not a personal attack on you, just my opinion on this barrel.  Fourth, if you remember, I was all prepared to purchase the 607 stock that you had, which turned out to not be correct, but I never accused you personally of deceit. Lastly, I did part out a 601 upper because it was no longer original.  It had a foreign UNIT MARKING (not trench art) on it, and in my opinion, was no longer collectible as it was. I remember when I researched it, the marking was from the “1st engineer battalion” or something like that. I  ONLY collect Original USGI Vietnam items.  Foreign markings ruin an item for me, but to each his own. However,  I would NEVER part out an all original collectible SP1 just for profit, because I would feel that I was destroying a US historical item. But again, to each his own.

Here are some close ups if it helps anyone

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I’m honestly perplexed by this barrel. What I said earlier stands in my opinion. The “12” looks like a legit Colt marking. I’m just confused why there wouldn’t be an MP marking on this barrel, as that was the standard, even at the time of the chrome chamber being phased in. “MP 12” transitioned to “MP C.” Without knowing where it actually came from (ie if it was Colt or not) I’m afraid all we can so is speculate. As Tom said, many of the references we commonly cite are outdated. I only have TBR 1 and I know that info in there can be wrong. As Tom also said “C MP C” and “C MP B“ are fairly common barrels these days. I have seen and own them all, save for an “M VP 12” with cast FSB. I’ll stand by what I said... it COULD be Colt, but proving that is very difficult, as it does not meet expectations of what we know from that era. On the same token, Colt was doing some crazy $#|+ 1965-1967 so it’s not unthinkable that this could be a Colt barrel. Hell, nobody has yet to fully understand Colt 601 1/14 markings and all of their variations. It’s just one of those things...

Either way, assuming it was a competitive price, I’d mount it up and be happy with it and know that it could either be a quite collectible piece, or a good shooter. Either way, I think you win...

@wesgarmon Could you please post a photo of the drain hole area of the front sight, and the front and back sides of the legs.

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I was telling the op earlier based on the right side FSB photo....  It looks like the M, MP and or VP was scrubbed.  I can see blemishes on the barrel right where these markings would be.  Also, the CC was obviously stamped after production and there is finish over them...  I do think its legit, just has been modded for some reason.  Also, being that the original owner said it was on a clean potentially buggered SP1 upper kind of leads me in that direction...

Edit:  Also there being no C on the barrel extension seems to lead into the possibility of a sp1 barrel.  Again pure speculation however.  Again, I still think its legit based on the 12 stamp that looks very correct in shape/detail.

hey tom good evening thats not likely to be a foriegn unit its a common filipino surname my wife is from there and verified. it would be like your last name carved in with knife on one of our rifles. the guy had both a 601 and xm4 in his possession obviously. pretty neat.

i have about 20 uppers out of that lot. all xm4s except 1 elisco, 3 604s and one commando. one of the xm4s is a larry vickers scud hunter type c7 style with xm4 barrel.

as for the bipods dont sweat it but i dont forget gun stuff easily and i dont make false accusations lightly. you purchased not 1 but a pair of them in cases from me at knob creek and yes that seems about right that i would bring it up later just to see your reaction. that sounds alot like my old self being normal back then. easy come easy go.

now if i ever did start to question my gun show memories and go and falsely accuse you of some nitpicky thing like scoring a couple truffles off a gunshow table at a bargain price dont lose any sleep. by the way me and you both have lead poisoning by now or else you arent shooting enough.

the fumes from these rifles have lead particles in the primers. not joking look it up. that one you tuber garandthumb did a video on it lately others too so no wonder we all act the way we do! theres my proof im not loosing sleep over this anymore. take it or leave it.

by the way i grew up at gun shows and theres nothing wrong with looking for a deal thats what every person does seems like. im just making a point that i never hated you but you keep avoiding my tables and back biting online. play it cool man were all gun guys. can i collect retro and build my own sp1s the way you dont like them please? crying out loud.

whatever it is eating away to make you guys grind your teeth at night stop! stop accusing people online before you verify! that might help.

as for the 607 stock i still have that one and could have pulled a fast one countless times if not on the level. remember it is so real it fooled every person here including you with it in person until you hashed over it for 3 days to verify with identical rack number.

that one came from an auction lot a guy bought and resold to me alot of neat collector stuff so guy must have died and been a member here. it fooled everyone so dont think i was any different. go figure.

thats pretty awesome that i didnt besnooker anybody with that thing if im a swindler. the c to d stock transitional model you and tazaroo now call a common d stock but has the fragile c front which is why they switched to d stocks to keep from breaking. dont tell me were still fighting over that one!

i let you guys win that argument just because im a nice guy. if he wanted to publicly scorge me over a non issue he got it. all he had to do was say hey john im returning this but no he went public first acting like he got swidled and you guys ganged up on me like i should have known. i actually had a guy know what it was and contact me after seeing pics of that stock here online and beg me to sell it to him.

now can the spanish inquisition be over with! i keep coming back here to defend myself about once a year now. i pick thru tons of this stuff from all over your gonna find anomolies from time to time.
its to be expected.

no tulizzy ive had this barrel in my possession and wes has too. case closed there. not scrubbed and not cc stamped by anyone making a profit. was never on an sp1 either was surplused then destroyed by sp1 rebuilder as new id say. read xm16e1 drilled to try to fit to sp1 by some hackjob type home builder would be a better guess.

my eyes hurt i gotta get away from computer and clean ak parts. if you guys arent nice to me im gonna post pictures here of colt odds and ends as romanian ak parts. i have that kind of power you know...colt 601 stock then boom! bakelite romanian ak grip pow! that would be fitting.