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Posted: 4/13/2020 11:15:23 PM EDT
[#1]
What circuitry is in a tailcap? I honestly thought it was simply a mechanical switch connection.
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Posted: 4/13/2020 11:25:58 PM EDT
[#2]
One of the reasons aftermarket tail caps are offered is as you mod lights the tail cap switches can’t handle the added amp load.
I believe they ARE telling the truth, but you aren’t going to tell the difference with your eyes. One trick I used back years ago when modding MagLite’s for high amp draw “hot wire” bulbs was to solder a copper braid from the top to the bottom of the tail cap spring as that was a major resistance area. |
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Posted: 4/13/2020 11:40:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the reasons aftermarket tail caps are offered is as you mod lights the tail cap switches can’t handle the added amp load. I believe they ARE telling the truth, but you aren’t going to tell the difference with your eyes. One trick I used back years ago when modding MagLite’s for high amp draw “hot wire” bulbs was to solder a copper braid from the top to the bottom of the tail cap spring as that was a major resistance area. Ah, 15 amp vacuum cleaner on a 12 amp spare bedroom circuit. Can't believe I didn't think of that. |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 12:06:13 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the reasons aftermarket tail caps are offered is as you mod lights the tail cap switches can't handle the added amp load. I believe they ARE telling the truth, but you aren't going to tell the difference with your eyes. One trick I used back years ago when modding MagLite's for high amp draw "hot wire" bulbs was to solder a copper braid from the top to the bottom of the tail cap spring as that was a major resistance area. |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 3:48:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanksnfor your response. I'm ignorant when it comes this topic, so near with me. Are you saying the power reduction would happen both with the tape switch and DS00 tail cap? And at what point would the human eye notice a difference? 200m? When fog or smoke is present? I dont want to handicap my light, but the hot button and mod button dont do much for me in terms of usability. If I'm never going to see a difference in the light performance, only know it might exist, I have no reason to look any further than the SR07 tape switch I'm currently using. |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 4:02:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: per comments I've seen from the owner of modlite on the modlite fb page, the UE and DS tailcaps aren't the amp bottleneck. It is the tapeswitch itself. When I activate the light with the DS tailcap button, it looks exactly the same as it does when I use the SR07. May be more dim, but I sure can't see it. |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 4:03:50 PM EDT
[#7]
I was under the impression this is for the Surefire switch that has the second round button for constant on.
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Posted: 4/14/2020 6:17:31 PM EDT
[#8]
A 20% reduction in output isn’t going to be noticeable with just your eyes, I suspect that the tail cap switch also isn’t rated for a high enough amp load either.
Unfortunately, I REALLY like using a Surefire “tape switch” in conjunction with a Tango Down front grip as it has a recess that the switch slides into. |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 6:23:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 20% reduction in output isn’t going to be noticeable with just your eyes, I suspect that the tail cap switch also isn’t rated for a high enough amp load either. Unfortunately, I REALLY like using a Surefire “tape switch” in conjunction with a Tango Down front grip as it has a recess that the switch slides into. 20% drop in light output is certainly noticeable to the human eye in these situations. Better way is to simply use an ammeter to see how much *current* is flowing. Doubt the app will be of much use. |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 6:31:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Probably this explain all these issues:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Problem-with-surefire-m600df-tape-switch-light-dims/20-741523/ |
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Posted: 4/14/2020 9:25:27 PM EDT
[#11]
This is my setup. I love the way it works so I dont want to change anything. But 20% could possibly sway me. If tailcaps were an issue, I'm sure modlite would be advertising their own tailcaps accordingly. So I doubt it. Just the switch. Which, I'd still like to measure. I was just hoping someone here had a meter and knew what they were doing or knew someone who did lol I'd be lying if I said I knew exactly what I'd do with a lux meter. I just know one square meter of lux should equal lumen output.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 4/15/2020 10:31:37 AM EDT
[#12]
Just compared the following, all on PLHV2's
Modlite Tailcap Z68 Tailcap Unity Mod Button DS tailcap with SR07 The only "variation" I was able to tell between them was the natural variation between the heads- some were more round hotspots, some had a secondary ring midway between the hotspot and the outer edge. I swapped a few of the heads to see if they looked any different with different tailcap/switch assemblies. In my eyeball test, they all look exactly the same. I will do the same thing outdoors when it gets dark out. All testing was done in my house under various lighting conditions. I figured any OBVIOUS changes or variances would be apparent, and they were not. Again, the only differences were specific to the head itself. More later. |
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Posted: 4/15/2020 12:40:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just compared the following, all on PLHV2's Modlite Tailcap Z68 Tailcap Unity Mod Button DS tailcap with SR07 The only "variation" I was able to tell between them was the natural variation between the heads- some were more round hotspots, some had a secondary ring midway between the hotspot and the outer edge. I swapped a few of the heads to see if they looked any different with different tailcap/switch assemblies. In my eyeball test, they all look exactly the same. I will do the same thing outdoors when it gets dark out. All testing was done in my house under various lighting conditions. I figured any OBVIOUS changes or variances would be apparent, and they were not. Again, the only differences were specific to the head itself. More later. |
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Posted: 4/15/2020 9:36:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the reasons aftermarket tail caps are offered is as you mod lights the tail cap switches can’t handle the added amp load. I believe they ARE telling the truth, but you aren’t going to tell the difference with your eyes. One trick I used back years ago when modding MagLite’s for high amp draw “hot wire” bulbs was to solder a copper braid from the top to the bottom of the tail cap spring as that was a major resistance area. I had a Surefire tailcap. I could tell the difference. |
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Posted: 4/16/2020 6:06:25 AM EDT
[#15]
Hold up a sec... I don't believe that electricity works as is being described in this thread. The battery does not "push" a fixed power and the resistance in the wiring or tailcap "stop" it, limiting power to the LED. The LED head "pulls" power... ALL that it needs, ALL of the time. If the switch is inadequate, it has more resistance, which causes more battery drain and more heat lost to the resistance as the LED head must "pull" more electricity through the wiring to get what it needs. I don't see how it COULD dim your light. Your light will draw more power due to inadequately thin wiring up to the max amps the battery will output without going into protection. If voltage sags, the voltage regulator will compensate. I guess if your battery went into protection it would be an issue, but it does not, so it cannot. The only negative would be runtime and heat/durability, not output if this true. If this is not the case, then what am I missing?
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Posted: 4/16/2020 6:52:43 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hold up a sec... I don't believe that electricity works as is being described in this thread. The battery does not "push" a fixed power and the resistance in the wiring or tailcap "stop" it, limiting power to the LED. The LED head "pulls" power... ALL that it needs, ALL of the time. If the switch is inadequate, it has more resistance, which causes more battery drain and more heat lost to the resistance as the LED head must "pull" more electricity through the wiring to get what it needs. I don't see how it COULD dim your light. Your light will draw more power due to inadequately thin wiring up to the max amps the battery will output without going into protection. If voltage sags, the voltage regulator will compensate. I guess if your battery went into protection it would be an issue, but it does not, so it cannot. The only negative would be runtime and heat/durability, not output if this true. If this is not the case, then what am I missing? |
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Posted: 4/16/2020 7:04:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hold up a sec... I don't believe that electricity works as is being described in this thread. The battery does not "push" a fixed power and the resistance in the wiring or tailcap "stop" it, limiting power to the LED. The LED head "pulls" power... ALL that it needs, ALL of the time. If the switch is inadequate, it has more resistance, which causes more battery drain and more heat lost to the resistance as the LED head must "pull" more electricity through the wiring to get what it needs. I don't see how it COULD dim your light. Your light will draw more power due to inadequately thin wiring up to the max amps the battery will output without going into protection. If voltage sags, the voltage regulator will compensate. I guess if your battery went into protection it would be an issue, but it does not, so it cannot. The only negative would be runtime and heat/durability, not output if this true. If this is not the case, then what am I missing? Came to post this, but DevL locked it down very well. |
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Posted: 4/16/2020 3:20:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Tried them in darker settings. To my eyes, same as it was in lighter conditions.
If there is a difference, I can't tell. |
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Posted: 4/16/2020 4:35:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Thanks for everyone's input. I think I'll keep my setup the way it is then.
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Posted: 4/16/2020 5:25:49 PM EDT
[#20]
A good read on the eye and perceived brightness....LINK
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Posted: 5/2/2020 11:14:51 PM EDT
[#21]
I have 4 Modlites in all the offered variations....PLH V1 and V2 and along with an OKW. I use them with Modbuttons and Surefire switches and tailcaps along with Arisaka tailcaps and Unity Hotbuttons. I am a HUGE Modlite fan and I fully believe that they have scientific data to back up their claims.....However.... I have tried every one of the heads, with every tailcap and every switch and button, and I cannot see any difference that can be attributed to this issue. There are huge differences in each model of head, but any given head looks the same with any switch.
I run the Modbuttons where they work the best for my setup. I do not run them for their advertised higher output. |
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Posted: 5/2/2020 11:40:24 PM EDT
[#22]
All thing being similar, according to the Guru’s at Candlepowerforums.com it takes approximately a 35% change in Lumens for the human eye to perceive a difference.
Most members there have forgotten more than I’ll ever know about lights! |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 1:25:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevL: Hold up a sec... I don't believe that electricity works as is being described in this thread. The battery does not "push" a fixed power and the resistance in the wiring or tailcap "stop" it, limiting power to the LED. The LED head "pulls" power... ALL that it needs, ALL of the time. If the switch is inadequate, it has more resistance, which causes more battery drain and more heat lost to the resistance as the LED head must "pull" more electricity through the wiring to get what it needs. I don't see how it COULD dim your light. Your light will draw more power due to inadequately thin wiring up to the max amps the battery will output without going into protection. If voltage sags, the voltage regulator will compensate. I guess if your battery went into protection it would be an issue, but it does not, so it cannot. The only negative would be runtime and heat/durability, not output if this true. If this is not the case, then what am I missing? Something can’t pull all the power it needs if the wire/ connection can’t handle it. It is the same reason all competitive vehicle audio people upgrade all their cables to 00 in most cases. The amp is trying to pull so much power and the 2ga wire can’t handle it that is in most vehicles power and ground wires. Also, length of the wire and the connection points make a difference. It’s like trying to suck water through a needle sized straw compared to a McDonalds straw. |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 1:32:14 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PursuitSS: All thing being similar, according to the Guru’s at Candlepowerforums.com it takes approximately a 35% change in Lumens for the human eye to perceive a difference. Most members there have forgotten more than I’ll ever know about lights! You are 100% correct. People always seem to think they can tell the difference in light output when there is a small difference. I was into high end flashlight collecting for a long time and also worked in the LED industry. You would be surprised how a 400 lumen module looks exactly like a 550 lumen module to the human eye. |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 8:24:48 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm with DevL. I use Acebeam L16's. They draw a lot of current. Their battery is the ACEBEAM ARC18650H-310A with Max Discharge Current: 20A. I mod their switch to remove the curly section. The wires are just two thick'ish Black and Red ones - Chinese. IMO, for Surefire switches to impact light output from a less powerful (than the Acebeam) Modlite - the SF wires would have to be less than Chinese quality, which I don't see happening? Then again, if they *are* some thin ones, who knows... Anybody have pics of bare SF wires?
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Posted: 5/3/2020 8:51:32 AM EDT
[#26]
PLHv2 18650 body with modlite cap
 PLHv2 18650 body with Surefire dual cap  I took the picture with the Modlite first and set the camera exposure to lock on that exposure. In person I could not tell a difference. I'm not sure if this is an accurate way to see the difference but if they had the same output, the picture would look the same. If you download the two pictures and switch back and forth you can see there is a slight difference and it looks like the bit of spill in the Surefire cap is a little dimmer. |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 10:52:44 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PineappleDevil: PLHv2 18650 body with modlite cap https://i.imgur.com/HVERkSG.jpg PLHv2 18650 body with Surefire dual cap https://i.imgur.com/ffYV4Sr.jpg I took the picture with the Modlite first and set the camera exposure to lock on that exposure. In person I could not tell a difference. I'm not sure if this is an accurate way to see the difference but if they had the same output, the picture would look the same. If you download the two pictures and switch back and forth you can see there is a slight difference and it looks like the bit of spill in the Surefire cap is a little dimmer. The central hotspot looks smaller as well. |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 12:54:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PineappleDevil: PLHv2 18650 body with modlite cap https://i.imgur.com/HVERkSG.jpg PLHv2 18650 body with Surefire dual cap https://i.imgur.com/ffYV4Sr.jpg I took the picture with the Modlite first and set the camera exposure to lock on that exposure. In person I could not tell a difference. I'm not sure if this is an accurate way to see the difference but if they had the same output, the picture would look the same. If you download the two pictures and switch back and forth you can see there is a slight difference and it looks like the bit of spill in the Surefire cap is a little dimmer. WOW....thats way more noticeable with the camera than anything I saw with the naked eye. Thanks for posting that. |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 9:15:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PineappleDevil: PLHv2 18650 body with modlite cap https://i.imgur.com/HVERkSG.jpg PLHv2 18650 body with Surefire dual cap https://i.imgur.com/ffYV4Sr.jpg I took the picture with the Modlite first and set the camera exposure to lock on that exposure. In person I could not tell a difference. I'm not sure if this is an accurate way to see the difference but if they had the same output, the picture would look the same. If you download the two pictures and switch back and forth you can see there is a slight difference and it looks like the bit of spill in the Surefire cap is a little dimmer. Very interesting. This is with different caps, not switches. If the Modlite cap itself is better, that kind of sucks since we all have to use Surefire switches for any other switch activation. I wonder if that issue could possibly be exacerbated if Modlite was to release a better cap that was also capable of accepting the ModButton. |
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Posted: 5/3/2020 10:21:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tgoodwin84: Very interesting. This is with different caps, not switches. If the Modlite cap itself is better, that kind of sucks since we all have to use Surefire switches for any other switch activation. I wonder if that issue could possibly be exacerbated if Modlite was to release a better cap that was also capable of accepting the ModButton. Yeah, even the mod button doesn't come with a cap. |
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Posted: 5/4/2020 8:01:46 PM EDT
[#31]
I purchased my first plh v2 modlite a couple months ago when they first released. When I got it the light would turn on whenever I moved the light. As if using it as a light saber the light would flicker on and off without actually turning it on. I contacted modlite and they said it could be a tailcap issue and to try a Surefire tailcap. That fixed the issue. I tried the Surefire tailcap and the light stopped flickering.
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Posted: 5/4/2020 11:20:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevL: Hold up a sec... I don't believe that electricity works as is being described in this thread. The battery does not "push" a fixed power and the resistance in the wiring or tailcap "stop" it, limiting power to the LED. The LED head "pulls" power... ALL that it needs, ALL of the time. If the switch is inadequate, it has more resistance, which causes more battery drain and more heat lost to the resistance as the LED head must "pull" more electricity through the wiring to get what it needs. I don't see how it COULD dim your light. Your light will draw more power due to inadequately thin wiring up to the max amps the battery will output without going into protection. If voltage sags, the voltage regulator will compensate. I guess if your battery went into protection it would be an issue, but it does not, so it cannot. The only negative would be runtime and heat/durability, not output if this true. If this is not the case, then what am I missing? IR=VD an equation from Ohms Law. Current (I) times resistance (R) equals voltage drop (VD) A resistance converts the energy flow through it into heat. This energy cannot be used to power the load, in this case a LED. If you put a resistor in series with a lamp it gets dimmer. All of us have seen this when a tailcap or head get loose...the light gets dim...and this is because the resistance has been introduced in the poor connection. A switch good for 5 amps will get hot at 10 amps...voltage drop occurs and the light dims. High power flashlight modders have used spring bypasses in tailcaps for years because the springs get hot which lowers efficiency and lowers output. Using the formula I posted shows clearly that as you raise the current, even a small resistance has a bad effect. I can easily see why a tape switch designed for lower current use would be a problem when you try to use it at very high current. ETA. Current in amperes, Voltage drop in Volts, Resistance in Ohms. |
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Posted: 5/7/2020 6:31:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PineappleDevil: PLHv2 18650 body with modlite cap https://i.imgur.com/HVERkSG.jpg PLHv2 18650 body with Surefire dual cap https://i.imgur.com/ffYV4Sr.jpg I took the picture with the Modlite first and set the camera exposure to lock on that exposure. In person I could not tell a difference. I'm not sure if this is an accurate way to see the difference but if they had the same output, the picture would look the same. If you download the two pictures and switch back and forth you can see there is a slight difference and it looks like the bit of spill in the Surefire cap is a little dimmer. Unfortunately our phone's cameras are very very very smart. If you can post the metadata for both photos, that would help. If the settings of the camera changed (which they do automatically on mostly every camera commonly used), they're going to look different. Im seeing some difference, but its more in the yellow hue of the second photo. |
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Posted: 5/7/2020 10:54:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Well good luck ever finding a modlight switch or hot button ever in stock anywhere.
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