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M16a4 (clone) picture thread (Page 88 of 152)
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I don't see how that pic relates to anything in this A4 thread, but maybe that's just me...
ETA: <sighs>I guess I'll have to take a new pic of my A4s this afternoon... apologies until then. 
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
Not something you see every day. I have seen A2's with waffle stocks. I think CD posted those and said they have a new weight buffer for that called an H6 I think it was. I think they were A2's and not A4's..... I don't know, but I rarely see an A2 with an ACOG on top. Man that must be one front heavy gun. If there is a light on the other side of those handgaurds, wow. Originally Posted By JJREA:
Not something you see every day. I have seen A2's with waffle stocks. I think CD posted those and said they have a new weight buffer for that called an H6 I think it was. I think they were A2's and not A4's..... I don't know, but I rarely see an A2 with an ACOG on top. Man that must be one front heavy gun. If there is a light on the other side of those handgaurds, wow. Can confirm that, even with an A2 stock to balance it out some, that gun would be front heavy as hell. [:o) I've only ever seen waffle stocks used on military 20" guns in person, as well. Originally Posted By 03RN:
Was this the only pic? Or was it cropped? Couple points It's a M203 (A2) No muzzle in picture makes me think it has a BFA. Also doesn't look like he has plates in so might be conus It was the only picture posted, unsure if it was cropped. Originally Posted By FlDiveCop71:
I don't see how that pic relates to anything in this A4 thread, but maybe that's just me... ETA: <sighs>I guess I'll have to take a new pic of my A4s this afternoon... apologies until then. It's tangentially related. Appears to be an early attempt at doing roughly what the A4 is doing, and I thought it may be interesting to have a conversation in this thread, rather than let it die until it gets bumped again next moth with a single comment. |
SGT Mike Knapp Dec 2, 1983-May 18, 2012.
How will I laugh tomorrow, when I can't even smile today?
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I've never seen DCU's with an American flag that isn't subdued. Airsofter?
Edited, I've never seen them post Gulf War I (Desert Shield/Desert Storm). OEF/OIF era had subdued issued, in my experience. Maybe NG/AR weren't issued. |
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Originally Posted By OnlytheTip:
I've never seen DCU's with an American flag that isn't subdued. Airsofter? Real dude. He's fighting a disease (I forget which one); this was the pic posted online in the article about him. ETA: Justin Dodson. Fighting ALS. |
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Originally Posted By miwafr:
I really screwed up & bought a RRA A2 NM Hbar 20 incher in hopes of installing triangle handguards...no fitty,too big OD of bsrrel FF sleeve. Any ideas if this will fit the RRA? You have to modify mod every handguard to mount on a NM sleeve. In what way was it too big? ETA: Does anyone have pictures of the early A4s that still had plastic handguards? I don't think I've ever actually seen one in service. |
SGT Mike Knapp Dec 2, 1983-May 18, 2012.
How will I laugh tomorrow, when I can't even smile today?
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Originally Posted By OnlytheTip:
I've never seen DCU's with an American flag that isn't subdued. Airsofter? I remember having a full colored flag on my DCUs around 03-04' IIRC. MP-44 
M4A1s (Sable and Dawn Marie WWE) 
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| This may have been asked, but has the GDI RCOM E-Model been used on the A4? I picked one up when they were cheap and plan to buy the TA31 this tax season. All the pics I see show the larue or stock mount. Also, is it the stock larue mount? I remember reading somewhere the A4 uses a different Larue mount with the leveers on the opposite side. |
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Originally Posted By STL_Nik:
If memory serves me some Army units had aimpoints on A4's, did they not? I'm trying to keep my A4 authentic, but I can't convince myself to drop the coin for an ACOG. I already own an Aimpoint. M68 CCO are already in the system and would be easily find its way unto a M16A4. CD |
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Originally Posted By STL_Nik:
If memory serves me some Army units had aimpoints on A4's, did they not? I'm trying to keep my A4 authentic, but I can't convince myself to drop the coin for an ACOG. I already own an Aimpoint. There's a couple pictures of that setup in use earlier in this thread, I thought I had it saved but I can't find it. |
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Early Army A4s first used the detachable carry handles - then the Comp M2-type M68 Aimpoints, while some of the last A4s in Army use used the Comp M4 & M4S-type M68 Aimpoints.
ETA: I managed to find 1 photo of an Acog being used on an Army A4... Attached File You could use an Aimpoint Pro mounted in a comp M2 mount & it would still carry the same overall appearance as that of using a comp M2. Here's one of my Army A4 clones which uses an Aimpoint Pro mounted in a comp M2 mount (later style) w/ early aimpoint cover/caps. Attached File ETAA: Here's a couple of other reposted Army A4 pics: This Army A4 is set up for left-hand use & is actually using standard A2 handguards rather than an M5 ras... Attached File The third soldier in this photo has a hand-held flashlight taped to his Comp M2.. You can just make out the knob of the M2 mount poking out from behind the light. There also appears to be a Kac 300m back-up iron sight attached to the rifle... Attached File Another Comp M2/M68 Army A4 in use... Attached File An early Army A4 pic...Note the use of the early (flat base) Comp M2 Mount on the M68CCO. Attached File One of the more recent Army A4 pics I've seen posted here. 
Hope this helps. |
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@MrMitch - Some GDI mounts have been used with A4 Acogs, though I am not sure if the E-model is one of them.
Here is a pic of an A4 using a GDI Acog mount, though I'm not certain which specific model this GDI mount is, ...it does have the appearance of an E-model from what I can tell.) Attached File Some other pics of the same style GDI Acog mount being used... Attached File Attached File Attached File Other known Acog mounts used with A4s include: Standard TA51 mount with knobs mounted facing to either the left (mostly early) or right (mostly later on) Bobro Quick-Release Acog Mount (lever-locked) A.R.M.S. ACOG mount (has 2 locking levers facing toward each other on the right hand side). Larue LT622 mount (Single pair of mount holes w/ levers facing aft on the right-hand side) Larue LT622-SDO mount (multiple mount holes, w/ levers facing aft on the right-hand side) *note: The LT622-SDO-A & LT799 mounts have a slightly different angle of approach to their mounting surfaces, and are designed for specific scopes & use applications. Larue LT100 mount (single pair of mount holes w/ levers facing aft on the left-hand side) *note: you may have trouble closing the aft locking lever when using this mount in conjunction with some buis such as the Matech. Larue LT681 mount (Single locking lever facing aft on the right-hand side, narrow aft mount section)*note: this mount is designed for using an Acog without a back-up iron sight in use so as to mount the Acog as far rear-ward on the top rail as possible, and still be able to easily access the charging handle. Hope this helps you |
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Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
M68 CCO are already in the system and would be easily find its way unto a M16A4. CD Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Originally Posted By STL_Nik:
If memory serves me some Army units had aimpoints on A4's, did they not? I'm trying to keep my A4 authentic, but I can't convince myself to drop the coin for an ACOG. I already own an Aimpoint. M68 CCO are already in the system and would be easily find its way unto a M16A4. CD Yup. I had an A4 like this. Shit I had an A2 with a M68 mounted in front of the carry handle (stateside only) when a deploying unit took our brand new M4s and gave us the A2s. ETA: pic thread 
Sorry it's not an exact clone. BCM complete upper LMT defender complete lower ACOG (gray because it was found $100 cheaper during a sale) KAC factory seconds rail Sling was my issued sling and still has NTC rotation sand on it Needs BUIS and I'm going to drop a Geissele in it at some point because I am a firearms instructor for my department and still qualify and occasionally carry this gun on duty. |
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Couple of new pics. Got the sling in last week. Only thing missing is a light, and not so sure I'm going to put one on.
Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By FlDiveCop71:
Early Army A4s first used the detachable carry handles - then the Comp M2-type M68 Aimpoints, while some of the last A4s in Army use used the Comp M4 & M4S-type M68 Aimpoints. ETA: I managed to find 1 photo of an Acog being used on an Army A4... http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/FLDiveCop71/33bg2fd.jpg You could use an Aimpoint Pro mounted in a comp M2 mount & it would still carry the same overall appearance as that of using a comp M2. Here's one of my Army A4 clones which uses an Aimpoint Pro mounted in a comp M2 mount (later style) w/ early aimpoint cover/caps. http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/FLDiveCop71/IMAG0704.jpg ETA: Here's a couple of other reposted Army A4 pics: This Army A4 is set up for left-hand use & is actually using standard A2 handguards rather than an M5 ras... http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/FLDiveCop71/22146_1230913652230_1210770065_3065.jpg The third soldier in this photo has a hand-held flashlight taped to his Comp M2.. You can just make out the knob of the M2 mount poking out from behind the light. There also appears to be a Kac 300m back-up iron sight attached to the rifle... http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/FLDiveCop71/M16A4ID.jpg Another Comp M2/M68 Army A4 in use... http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/FLDiveCop71/iraq05.jpg An early Army A4 pic...Note the use of the early (flat base) Comp M2 Mount on the M68CCO. http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/FLDiveCop71/military-wallpaper20096181524343778023.jpg One of the more recent Army A4 pics I've seen posted here. https://66.media.tumblr.com/cc5acd0e8119e33becf77d2188d2cca2/tumblr_oftn8wnnAb1tws180o1_1280.jpg Hope this helps. You kind of lost me on the mounts, but it may be the difference between military designation and civilian??? I didn't know they made a "flat" style early on. I thought the one you are referring to as a later style "Comp M2 Mount" was called a QRP mount. I thought the Comp M2 was the actual Aimpoint designation and the M68CCO was the Military designation for the Aimpoint Comp M2. I could see how the mount carried the same name if that's the mount that came with the sight, but I thought even military types call it the QRP mount. I almost couldn't see the difference between that last pic, but I guess it does look like there is no slant to it like the QRP or "Comp M2" mount. |
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
You kind of lost me on the mounts, but it may be the difference between military designation and civilian??? I didn't know they made a "flat" style early on. I thought the one you are referring to as a later style "Comp M2 Mount" was called a QRP mount. I thought the Comp M2 was the actual Aimpoint designation and the M68CCO was the Military designation for the Aimpoint Comp M2. I could see how the mount carried the same name if that's the mount that came with the sight, but I thought even military types call it the QRP mount. I almost couldn't see the difference between that last pic, but I guess it does look like there is no slant to it like the QRP or "Comp M2" mount. You are correct in that the proper term for the mount itself is a "QRP Mount", however - I use the term Comp M2 Mount because the current style mount for the Aimpoint Pro models is now also often being called a "QRP Mount" rather than it's proper term "QRP2 Mount" so to differentiate - I simply call the original a Comp M2 Mount. While the term M68CCO is a military term which can be ascribed to a number of different Aimpoint models (Comp M2, M3, M4, & M4S) - I wanted to be clear on the particular Aimpoint model being used rather than just using the generic term M68CCO. As for the differences between the early & late style Comp M2 mounts (QRP mount)... The original "QRP" mount which was first used on the Comp M2 Series had a much thinner, flat base to them which was prone to cracking across the line of the tensioning bolt if the mount was over tightened & then subjected to a sudden impact to the optic - say like a rifle falling over on it's side & hitting the ground after being propped up against a wall. Because of this weakness, they later developed the much more widely distributed, slanted-style base for the Comp M2 (M68CCO). Here is a close-up pic of the early "flat-base" & later "slanted-base" QRP mounts (Early flat base below & later slanted base above) - Note the much thicker, slanted profile of the (later) upper optic's base @ the tensioning bolt - Also note that the upper optic currently has a height spacer installed: Attached File |
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Any idea on the exact time frame when A4's started showing up at the School of Infantry?
At MCRD we had A2's but when I arrived for infantry training at SOI West in mid-July 2006, the A4's (with ACOG) looked brand new. Always wondered if I was in the first cycle to get them. If I remember correctly, the MCT guys were still issued A2s. I'm assuming boot camp started getting the rifles soon after too. |
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Originally Posted By Regulatori:
Any idea on the exact time frame when A4's started showing up at the School of Infantry? At MCRD we had A2's but when I arrived for infantry training at SOI West in mid-July 2006, the A4's (with ACOG) looked brand new. Always wondered if I was in the first cycle to get them. If I remember correctly, the MCT guys were still issued A2s. I'm assuming boot camp started getting the rifles soon after too. The official adoption date for the A4 for both the US Army & USMC was July 29th, 1997. While I'm not sure of the exact date that the A4 started circulating through the respective services' training camps, it was certainly before 2006. |
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If someone could assist me here I would greatly appreciate it.
I was 1ID and deployed to OIF 08-09. ETS in 2010. Being the squad SDM was my little side thing they had me do. I had an M16A4 and am trying to replicate (as close as I can) the exact rifle I was issued (minus the purple upper receiver lol). My issued rifle had a really old grey colt A2 lower (with a 4 literally stamped over the 2 to make it an A4), and an old faded FN upper. I bought an FN Military Collector M16 as a base to build off of. I have a Blackhawk stock mag pouch (as far as I can tell that is what I had), and I am ordering the Spec-Ops 101 3 point sling (I think that was RFI issued to us). This one: http://www.specopsbrand.com/sling-101-m16.html in black. The rifle came with the Matech BUIS, and as far as I can tell, the only thing left to complete my build is the ACOG. And, this is where I am really facing a dilemma. I don't care about what's better. I just want my build to be as close to what I had as possible. I know Trijicon has the RCO-A4 and the RCO-M150. The A4 "would" be perfect (bullet drop, etc) but that is the USMC optic, and the M150 "should" be exactly what I need for the Army accurate build as what was issued to me. I remember we were issued the same type of ACOG for M4's and for M16's. However, the M150 has external adjuster knobs, and I know for a fact my ACOG did not have external adjusters. My ACOG also did not have the lens covers, but it did have the laser filter / kill flash. So my problem is now I'm not really sure which ACOG I was issued. I was issued my ACOG in the 2008-2009 time period. It's been a few years. I thought it might have been just the base TA31, but I know for sure that my ACOG had the Mil lines along the side of the sight picture which I don't believe the TA31 base model has. Did the Army ACOG get changed at some point to add the external adjusters and lens caps? I remember adjusting mine with dog tags, and there were definitely no knobs to turn. I am leaning toward going with the M150, but I wanted to ask your opinion. Thanks for any responses. |
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Originally Posted By trperic:
Did the Army ACOG get changed at some point to add the external adjusters and lens caps? I don't know the exact date but pretty much all the ACOGs started getting "external" adjusters. The TA31-RCO-A4 for example, was originally issued with internal adjusters, though later ones came with external adjusters. If the ACOG you used had horizontal reference lines, then it was probably either the RCO-A4, or the M150, as the TA01-NSN's reticle is very distinctive & the TA31F doesn't have any horizontal references. Don't worry too much about the type of adjusters as you can't tell the difference between the two types when the adjuster cover caps are on anyways. As for the lens caps on the M150 - The harder thing you're going to find is obtaining one that doesn't have the RMR tabs on it, as all the commercial models now come with them. I suppose you could always just have the tabs ground off & repainted, but that's a lot of expenditure for such a small nuance. |
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Originally Posted By FlDiveCop71:
The official adoption date for the A4 for both the US Army & USMC was July 29th, 1997. While I'm not sure of the exact date that the A4 started circulating through the respective services' training camps, it was certainly before 2006. All I remember is our SOI SGTs being surprised at the armory when we first got them. Distinctly remember SgtMaj Vines yelling/complaining about the "new fancy rifles" (or something similar) in the chow hall too. haha |
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Originally Posted By FlDiveCop71:
I don't know the exact date but pretty much all the ACOGs started getting "external" adjusters. The TA31-RCO-A4 for example, was originally issued with internal adjusters, though later ones came with external adjusters. If the ACOG you used had horizontal reference lines, then it was probably either the RCO-A4, or the M150, as the TA01-NSN's reticle is very distinctive & the TA31F doesn't have any horizontal references. Don't worry too much about the type of adjusters as you can't tell the difference between the two types when the adjuster cover caps are on anyways. As for the lens caps on the M150 - The harder thing you're going to find is obtaining one that doesn't have the RMR tabs on it, as all the commercial models now come with them. I suppose you could always just have the tabs ground off & repainted, but that's a lot of expenditure for such a small nuance. Thanks, I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the M150, appreciate the response! |
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Sounds like your lower might have been an Anniston Army Depot refurb. I think they were marked ANAD somewhere. My wife is from Anniston and we see the Army Depot all the time when we go back. Although Ft. McLellan is no longer there.
Thank you for serving and hope your build goes well. Let us see it when she's done. Do you remember what ammo you used mostly? Was it M855? Did you get any Mk262? Or did you shoot M193? Just curious. |
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Originally Posted By FlDiveCop71:
You are correct in that the proper term for the mount itself is a "QRP Mount", however - I use the term Comp M2 Mount because the current style mount for the Aimpoint Pro models is now also often being called a "QRP Mount" rather than it's proper term "QRP2 Mount" so to differentiate - I simply call the original a Comp M2 Mount. While the term M68CCO is a military term which can be ascribed to a number of different Aimpoint models (Comp M2, M3, M4, & M4S) - I wanted to be clear on the particular Aimpoint model being used rather than just using the generic term M68CCO. As for the differences between the early & late style Comp M2 mounts (QRP mount)... The original "QRP" mount which was first used on the Comp M2 Series had a much thinner, flat base to them which was prone to cracking across the line of the tensioning bolt if the mount was over tightened & then subjected to a sudden impact to the optic - say like a rifle falling over on it's side & hitting the ground after being propped up against a wall. Because of this weakness, they later developed the much more widely distributed, slanted-style base for the Comp M2 (M68CCO). Here is a close-up pic of the early "flat-base" & later "slanted-base" QRP mounts (Early flat base below & later slanted base above) - Note the much thicker, slanted profile of the (later) upper optic's base @ the tensioning bolt - Also note that the upper optic currently has a height spacer installed: http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/FLDiveCop71/IMAG0716B.jpg FWIW, I know the difference and call out the difference between the QRP and QRP2 mount. I've had both now. I had not recalled seeing that older style. Thanks for the pic. I don't know exactly what the "ACO" mount is, but I'm pretty sure it's thinner at the bottom like that too. Not quite the same though. Cheaper knob and stuff. http://us.aimpoint.com/product/aimpoint-aco/ |
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
Sounds like your lower might have been an Anniston Army Depot refurb. I think they were marked ANAD somewhere. My wife is from Anniston and we see the Army Depot all the time when we go back. Although Ft. McLellan is no longer there. Thank you for serving and hope your build goes well. Let us see it when she's done. Do you remember what ammo you used mostly? Was it M855? Did you get any Mk262? Or did you shoot M193? Just curious. Were you referring to the rifle I mentioned in my post? I don't really remember how it was marked. It was definitely a refurb though. We used nothing but M855, and if I recall correctly, the last 2-3 rounds in each mag was a tracer (which I BELIEVE was M856 but I could be wrong). When I get everything installed I will definitely be posting pictures. I did scrounge up a few pictures of it if anyone wants to see it. I had a crap camera that I bought from the haji mart, and I was an awful photographer. Some of the pictures don't show the stock mag pouch, I think we got those mid-deployment. I had the laser filter and kill flash, but I always just left it in the box. We didn't have any kind of SOP for using either. Please forgive the grip and the bipod, I was dumb and we all thought it was high speed to bolt crap onto our rifles that wasn't standard. Toward the end of the deployment it went back to the stock grip and no bipod. 
Here is a closeup of the ACOG: (I have no idea why my rear BUIS wasn't on...) 
And finally, the sight picture: 
I'm getting ready to order the M150 ACOG as I'm pretty sure that will be as close as I can get. Now I have to figure out how to tell the wife....... |
Yeah, I googled and found a pic but my memory was wrong. This ANAD refurbed lower is black. Not grey like you said yours was....... Although maybe they refinished some and not others. Anyways.....
You dudes are bad to the bone with all them AK's. 
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I know this isn't a correct clone, so feel free to kick me out.  The idea behind this build was an M16A4 dissipator. I think it turned out well.
Attached File |
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Originally Posted By SpazzyMcgee123:
I know this isn't a correct clone, so feel free to kick me out. The idea behind the behind this build was an M16A4 dissipator. I think it turned out well.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/317119/FullSizeRender-23--134720.JPG Should be in the dissipator thread. |
Not a perfect A4 clone, but that ALG trigger is smooth. The silver trigger just seems really out of place though. Maybe I'll just paint it black or something, idk.
Now I have come to an impasse, pay off student loans or buy an ACOG... ACOG seems to be the only rational choice in this situation, can't leave this build on the edge of completion. 
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Well here is my current M16A4 clone. I kind of cheated though, it's literally nothing more than the FN Military Collector M16 with a Blackhawk Stock Mag Pouch. My Spec-Ops 101 M16 sling will be in tomorrow, and my ACOG M150 will be in on Tuesday. So, as a placeholder, I expertly photoshopped an ACOG on until Tuesday lol. Once my ACOG comes in I will post an updated picture. I'm almost there!!!
(One thing that is kind of cool is the serial number begins with "M16SA") 
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
If you got that ACOG on the EE, I'd give that dude a bad rating. 
Nice build. LOL right, and thanks! Well everyone, my ACOG finally made it in! I installed it per the Army TM for the M150, finger tight then 1/4 turn. Link to manual in case anyone else would like it: http://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-9-1240-416-13-and-P.pdf I already took it out and zeroed it at my parent's farm @ 25m on an M16A2 target doing the 1.5 block offset that the manual talks about. One problem though, the sling I bought was NOT the right one! I thought it was, but after reviewing my old pictures I should have actually bought this sling: http://fireforceusa.com/slings/8342.htm NSN#1005-01-562-7396 It's OK though, I just converted the wrong sling into a 2-point and I'll leave it alone. I didn't really like all the straps of my old issued 3 point sling anyways. And like the other poster stated above, he was right, the commercial ACOGs do have the "ears" for the red dot sight. I'm OK with it though. The lens caps are new along with the external adjusters, and on my old ACOG just the chevron was illuminated (as I recall) and on this one, all the way down to 450m is illuminated. It's good though, I have no complaints. Parts: FN M16 Military Collector - $1589 (bought locally, around $1700 after tax) ACOG TA31RCO-M150CP - $1250 (bought from Gunbroker, for Army specific build otherwise I would have used RCO-A4) Blackhawk Stock Mag Pouch - $20 Spec-Ops Sling - $30 (wrong sling, for me anyways) -------------------------- $3000 total I am not rich by any means. The rifle was paid for by selling an FS2000 and a PS90, both were bought years ago. I know I could have done this for way cheaper, but I really wanted the FN rifle. Here she is after being zeroed: (It's cleared, so the selector is on "SEMI") 
M150 sight picture: 
This is the rollmark: 
And the safety selector switch: 
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M16a4 (clone) picture thread (Page 88 of 152)
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