User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
MI, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:25:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: turner56]
Not sure how many people saw the news about TCE being linked with a 500x risk of developing Parkinson's (which has dramatically increased in the population since the 1970s). I found that CLP and some Hoppes products contain trichloroethylene so I'm looking for an alternative product. Ballistol seems to be the safest alternative I've found. If anyone has another suggestion I'd love to hear them.
https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-warn-common-cleaning-chemical-linked-to-500-increased-risk-of-parkinsons-disease/ Edit: seems like this effects older CLP products (<2016) base on SDS information available online. Gunslick Gun Flush Aerosol; wondering if this is specific to aerosol products? |
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Posted: 3/16/2023 10:35:49 AM EDT
[#1]
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2023 10:40:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hoodfu]
[#2]
I know everyone has their pet cleaning product, but I've just always used some rem oil and various nylon brushes. I've never had a problem getting things clean enough. I also use those things after every range trip, so I'm not letting things get caked and hardened.suppressor parts get dawn/lemishined and put in the ultrasonic cleaner or wet tumbler. No crazy chemicals.
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Posted: 3/16/2023 10:41:40 AM EDT
[#3]
No matter what I use to clean, I always wear some type of latex or nitrile medical gloves.
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Posted: 3/16/2023 10:47:32 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 3/16/2023 10:52:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#5]
Originally Posted By turner56: Not sure how many people saw the news about TCE being linked with a 500x risk of developing Parkinson's (which has dramatically increased in the population since the 1970s). I found that CLP and some Hoppes products contain trichloroethylene so I'm looking for an alternative product. Ballistol seems to be the safest alternative I've found. If anyone has another suggestion I'd love to hear them.] I think that TCE was removed a few MIL-PRF 63460 revisions ago, so CLPs meeting either of the current standards (bio and not-bio) for .mil CLP, or the previous revision, should be fine, and will clean both the bore and moving parts adequately, and lubricate/prevent corrosion. Alternatively, Lubriplate FMO-350 AW is available in reasonable quantities via Lubrikit. ALG Go Juice makes a claim of being non-toxic. Plain mineral oil (least preferred alternative) is available at the drug store. Any of these lubricants are suitable for cleaning the moving parts and lubricating them/preventing corrosion. Wear gloves. |
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Posted: 3/16/2023 10:52:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: No matter what I use to clean, I always wear some type of latex or nitrile medical gloves. This is the correct answer. Everything has something in it. Just because they say one thing is bad, it doesn't mean something else isn't. Trichloroethylene didn't suddenly become bad. They just got around to doing a study. |
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Posted: 3/16/2023 10:57:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Mpro-7
Excellent product. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2023 11:00:56 AM EDT
[#8]
https://feeds.brownells.com/userdocs/MSDS/080-000-588.pdf
this is the safety sheet for breakfree clp from 2014, not sure if it has changed the formula since then, gloves aren't going to help you against VOC fume exposure. IMO, as a father, not really worth it if there are alternatives. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2023 11:11:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 556Cliff]
[#9]
I use Break-Free CLP. I wonder if that's why my memory has gone to crap.
 I'm always wearing gloves when I'm applying it, but not when I'm handling firearms away from the cleaning bench. Still nothing else I can think of to switch to. I would have made the switch to Slip2000 if it worked as well as Break-Free. Edit: Wait, you said Parkinson's not Alzheimer's... Maybe my memory issues are not BF CLP related. |
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Posted: 3/16/2023 11:24:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By turner56: https://feeds.brownells.com/userdocs/MSDS/080-000-588.pdf this is the safety sheet for breakfree clp from 2014, not sure if it has changed the formula since then, gloves aren't going to help you against VOC fume exposure. IMO, as a father, not really worth it if there are alternatives. Couple problems with your link. 1) it contains SDSs for several products, some of which declare the TCE from OP. The Safariland Break-Free CLP on the first page does not declare that chemical. 2) it is from Aug 2014. In Nov 2014, MIL PRF 63460 was revised, and again in 2017. Break Free CLP, among other CLP brands, was revised to meet the newer requirements for reducing toxicity. 3) Because of MIL PRF 63460, military CLP is the only gun-specific oil that has extra regulation and oversight on the topic of toxicity, and thus the only gun-specific oil that is subject to extra scrutiny and testing external to the manufacturer above the degree applicable universally to consumer and workplace chemicals. The FMO-350 AW I mentioned above has similar, but not precisely the same, scrutiny due to being designed for food-processing machinery, but it is not a cleaner like CLP, and thus not an exact substitute. |
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Posted: 3/16/2023 11:46:16 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vellcrow: Gunzilla It replaced Breakfree CLP for me. Been using it for @ 14-15 years now. |
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Posted: 3/16/2023 12:07:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassman2: I went to the link to buy, but my browser says the site isn't secure. fyi. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassman2: Originally Posted By Vellcrow: Gunzilla It replaced Breakfree CLP for me. Been using it for @ 14-15 years now. I have bought from there several times, no issues. However, there is this option: Gunzilla on Amazon |
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Posted: 3/16/2023 12:36:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Ballistol may smell like ass but at least it won't kill you. I also use Hornady's One Shot but only outside, and with gloves.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2023 12:42:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: Couple problems with your link. 1) it contains SDSs for several products, some of which declare the TCE from OP. The Safariland Break-Free CLP on the first page does not declare that chemical. 2) it is from Aug 2014. In Nov 2014, MIL PRF 63460 was revised, and again in 2017. Break Free CLP, among other CLP brands, was revised to meet the newer requirements for reducing toxicity. 3) Because of MIL PRF 63460, military CLP is the only gun-specific oil that has extra regulation and oversight on the topic of toxicity, and thus the only gun-specific oil that is subject to extra scrutiny and testing external to the manufacturer above the degree applicable universally to consumer and workplace chemicals. The FMO-350 AW I mentioned above has similar, but not precisely the same, scrutiny due to being designed for food-processing machinery, but it is not a cleaner like CLP, and thus not an exact substitute. I found an updated SDS from April 2016. The formula was changed to 1-decene and calcium salt so newer bottles produced after that date seem to be safe. Mine is quite old because it was a huge amount when I bought it. It's an aerosol the size of a spray paint can so ill be tossing the rest of it. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2023 1:28:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dalle0001]
[#15]
I would just wear nitrile gloves and just continue to use what you're using. You can also do it outside or in the garage with the door open a little.
However, my personal recommendation is a friendly product like Slip 2000 or Froglube. I'm a personal favorite Froglube user and one reason for the switch is as you said, harmful chemicals. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2023 1:39:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dalle0001]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By turner56: https://feeds.brownells.com/userdocs/MSDS/080-000-588.pdf this is the safety sheet for breakfree clp from 2014, not sure if it has changed the formula since then, gloves aren't going to help you against VOC fume exposure. IMO, as a father, not really worth it if there are alternatives. If there's any group that loves to put VA claims in with dangerous chemicals, it would be the US military. I'm finding it hard to believe Breakfree CLP would cause as widespread of a problem considering they had over 20+ years of use in the military. I think they switched to G96 recently but overall Breakfree has been in service for a very long time. Long enough for people to feel whatever sort of negative effects of it and long enough for them to go to a lawyer to file a lawsuit, especially a class action one with many plaintiffs. With that said, I would imagine under normal use and care, you probably wouldn't get any negative even with the harmful properties. As I said in my other post, I think using nitrile gloves is a lot smarter than just trusting the chemicals, and I also think using a separate area, that's well ventilated like outside or in the garage with the door open. And I think using a separate trash bin and bag would be a very smart idea. And finally wash your dang hands and maybe change your clothes after a day at the range. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 6:54:02 AM EDT
[#17]
SLIP2000 has all you need from carbon killer to EWL. I don't work for them nor am I affiliated with the company in any way. Just someone who uses their products.
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Posted: 3/19/2023 12:03:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BratsundBier: SLIP2000 has all you need from carbon killer to EWL. I don't work for them nor am I affiliated with the company in any way. Just someone who uses their products. This |
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USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 12:19:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wildearp: Mpro-7 Excellent product. Slip 2000 Mobil 1 synthetic |
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USA
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Posted: 3/19/2023 1:10:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ColtSeavers]
[#20]
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Posted: 3/19/2023 1:58:01 PM EDT
[#21]
I really doubt that you'd get Parkinsons from it if you're just a hobbyist. Maybe if you use it every day or work in that factory or something.
The only people I know who have gotten Parkinsons were A) welders or B) smokers. I don't know any gun guys that have gotten it. On a side note, wood workers get liver cirrhosis pretty easily. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 4:00:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewsky: I really doubt that you'd get Parkinsons from it if you're just a hobbyist. Maybe if you use it every day or work in that factory or something. The only people I know who have gotten Parkinsons were A) welders or B) smokers. I don't know any gun guys that have gotten it. On a side note, wood workers get liver cirrhosis pretty easily. Both Parkinson and Parkinsonism are both listed as Agent Orange Presumptive Disease's. As a Vietnam Vet, I have a disability rating for Parkinsonism, and I'm a gun guy for the last 52 years. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/20/2023 7:14:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Mobile 1
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Posted: 3/20/2023 7:39:56 AM EDT
[#24]
The quantity and ingestion of TCE matters. Chronic vs acute exposures.
The sun is also a carcinogen - If you had an SDS for Sunshine you wouldn't go outdoors. Read an SDS for firearm related gun powders, projectiles, metals, and further (if even possible) the resulting combustion products in shooting. Science and common people don't mix. Oxygen fuels cancer growth - better avoid it. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:25:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 3/21/2023 8:34:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cherenkov: The quantity and ingestion of TCE matters. Chronic vs acute exposures. The sun is also a carcinogen - If you had an SDS for Sunshine you wouldn't go outdoors. Read an SDS for firearm related gun powders, projectiles, metals, and further (if even possible) the resulting combustion products in shooting. Science and common people don't mix. Oxygen fuels cancer growth - better avoid it. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 9:05:51 AM EDT
[#27]
But Hoppes smells so good.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2023 9:07:30 AM EDT
[#28]
If old (good smelling) break free is wrong, I don't want to be right.
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MT, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2023 3:46:43 PM EDT
[#29]
I have an old bottle of hoppes #9 from the early 70s that still has the benzene in it. One patch of that shit equals 5-6 patches of new hoppes. I only wish I had more of it.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2023 10:42:44 PM EDT
[#30]
BALLISTOL
Get used to the smell............. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2023 11:51:38 PM EDT
[#31]
As you've found newer CLP that meets the mil specifications are now safer.
Hoppes #9 in the orange bottle, the basic cheap stuff is about 45% kerosene, about 45% denatured alcohol, about 5% ammonia, and about 5% banana oil. You could make something similar with a 50/50 mix of kerosene and denatured alcohol. Mpro-7 is supposed to be non-toxic as is the similar Hoppes Elite. SLIP 2000 carbon cutter is also supposed to be non-toxic. Battle Born cleaner and oils are stated to be non-toxic by the manufacturer. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/24/2023 2:04:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: REGULARGUY556]
[#32]
I have been using Breakfree CLP since I joined the US Marine Corps in 1996 so I guess I am screwed because I continue to use it because it just works if it does falls into this category. I also highly recommend it to anyone asking for a high quality CLP. I have no connection to the aforementioned company I merely use some of their kit. Edited to add content.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/24/2023 5:46:43 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By REGULARGUY556: I have been using Breakfree CLP since I joined the US Marine Corps in 1996 so I guess I am screwed because I continue to use it because it just works if it does falls into this category. I also highly recommend it to anyone asking for a high quality CLP. I have no connection to the aforementioned company I merely use some of their kit. Edited to add content. Mother Green hooked me on it around the same time but the mil changed the spec and I don’t think the newer stuff is as good. ive still got a 12oz bottle of that OG 90s breakfree I ration carefully, |
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Posted: 5/24/2023 7:17:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TJRoush: BALLISTOL Get used to the smell............. Ballistol is good stuff. I don't understand why people have to chase the newest thing, when the original still works. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2023 3:57:28 PM EDT
[#35]
I mean I would say it kind of stinks to get Parkinsons or any sort of disease. Sometimes you can control it but others not so. I would say if you can minimize your contact with cleaners, then all the better. Just take it easy, try to wear nitrile gloves while cleaning, and I think you'll be okay. If you do get Parkensons or some other disease, then wouldn't you want to have lived the very best life as possible? It would be ironic and silly if you tried to avoid it all your life only to get it and die. So best to take it easy and just live as smart as possible.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 7/12/2023 10:04:57 AM EDT
[#36]
I have worn nitrile gloves for many years. Bore solvents with really mess up your finger tips, at least always did mine. With the gloves, no contact. Ballistol claims it is safe but I can't breathe around the smell. If using a boresnake, Hoppes makes a CLP specially for boresnakes. It seems to work great but still wear gloves with good ventilation.
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Posted: 1/4/2024 10:35:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NAM: If old (good smelling) break free is wrong, I don't want to be right. And I think of all the times we were elbow deep cleaning our M2s and M60s in that stuff. |
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