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Originally Posted By stone-age: Has anybody tried a Sig 320? It looks like the fire control housing thing is the important part that needs to be finished. Everything else is added to that. And that part is used to make a lot of different configurations. I looked at the 220 but it is expensive, labor intensive, and rare. There's an active cloning movement of the P250 & P320 FCS modules, as it's just a small piece of bent steel w/ holes drilled. Parts add up to more than a complete factory new gun, however, but no SN. |
Well, isn't this a fine kettle of fish.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: There's an active cloning movement of the P250 & P320 FCS modules, as it's just a small piece of bent steel w/ holes drilled. Parts add up to more than a complete factory new gun, however, but no SN. Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By stone-age: Has anybody tried a Sig 320? It looks like the fire control housing thing is the important part that needs to be finished. Everything else is added to that. And that part is used to make a lot of different configurations. I looked at the 220 but it is expensive, labor intensive, and rare. There's an active cloning movement of the P250 & P320 FCS modules, as it's just a small piece of bent steel w/ holes drilled. Parts add up to more than a complete factory new gun, however, but no SN. archived arfcom Sig P320 80% caveman thread archived thread P320 JSD Supply MUP1 |
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Say a friend had 12 80% lowers to cut. If he were to buy a new 5d tactical jig, router, kit, etc for what $450-$500. After cutting a happy dozen pieces of pie, assuming he's not a moron, how much damage can be expected on the jig? Like would the package be worth $300 or so on the open market or should I, I mean he, write off the value of the jig package? Short version, how many lowers can one expect to cut starting with a new jig before noticeable degradation? |
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The jig itself will hold up just fine, well past a dozen. It’s the drill bushing that you need to be very careful with. Use a drill press to drill the holes and it will help minimize any wear, but after 12 lowers you may begin to see some wear. Use lube with the mill bits and they will last longer, I have seen 6+ lowers milled with the same bit before changing. The price of the jigs have come down and you do see them on sale, today they were 20% off so resale may not be what you think but you never know what someone will pay. |
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I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job!
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While this seems to be mainly jig discussion, here is some ghost gunner 3 experience: Ordered in November of 2020 and arrived in October of 2021. I have run over 25 80% lowers through it and done clean up on another 15 and am still using the same bits. Bought the Defense Distributed code for some additional code for items I wanted to do. Goal from my end is to make clones of military lowers as close to the real thing as the law allows. Forgings were chosen to replicate as closely as possible the style of forging in use at time of military production. The Nodak AH, other Cerro and AH forgings used from suppliers such as Right to Bear, Daytona Tactical, and Modulus. First task, mill out FCG pocket (the code allows for AR15 or M16 cut) and rear take down area - time almost one hour. I did the selector and trigger/hammer holes with jig and drill press as it takes more time to set up the cut with the GG3 than it is worth for less than a minute of drill press time. Attached File Engraving - I have a friend in the jewelry business with a laser engraver - takes about an hour. Also had engraving done with traditional cut. For the most part, the traditional engraving turns out not close enough to the size used on .mil weapons. For reference, text height of 3mm on the magwell text, and 2.5mm on the FCG sides seem to come out the closest. Font is Helvetica Condensed Bold for most of the type, and Helvetica Bold for SAFE / SEMI / AUTO or BURST. Attached File Then I wanted Type 3 hardcoat anodizing. This requires temps in a cold room not typically available at home, so a local business that does that (sadly no FFL so have to walk in and schedule) did the work for me: Attached File Example of completed work: Attached File |
"No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people." William Rawle
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Originally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks: While this seems to be mainly jig discussion, here is some ghost gunner 3 experience: Ordered in November of 2020 and arrived in October of 2021. I have run over 25 80% lowers through it and done clean up on another 15 and am still using the same bits. Bough the Defense Distributed code for some additional code for items I wanted to do. Goal from my end is to make clones of military lowers as close to the real thing as the law allows. Forgings were chosen to replicate as closely as possible the style of forging in use at time of military production. The Nodak AH, other Cerro and AH forgings used from suppliers such as Right to Bear, Daytona Tactical, and Modulus. First task, mill out FCG pocket (the code allows for AR15 or M16 cut) and rear take down area - time almost one hour. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/GG3_jpg-2290428.JPG Engraving - I have a friend in the jewelry business with a laser engraver - takes about an hour. Also had engraving done with traditional cut. For the most part, the traditional engraving turns out not close enough to the size used on .mil weapons. For reference, text height of 3mm on the magwell text, and 2.5mm on the FCG sides seem to come out the closest. Font is Helvetica Condensed Bold for most of the type, and Helvetica Bold for SAFE / SEMI / AUTO or BURST. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/ghostguns_jpg-2290436.JPG Then I wanted Type 3 hardcoat anodizing. This requires temps in a cold room not typically available at home, so a local business that does that (sadly no FFL so have to walk in and schedule) did the work for me: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/batch1_jpg-2290438.JPG Example of completed work: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180398/Colt_A4_jpg-2290439.JPG Attached File |
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Originally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks: ... Then I wanted Type 3 hardcoat anodizing. This requires temps in a cold room not typically available at home, so a local business that does that (sadly no FFL so have to walk in and schedule) did the work for me: ... @HenryKnoxFineBooks does the local business you mentioned for anodizing, do they take mail-in unmolested 80% lowers for anodizing? looks like they did an outstanding job. |
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Originally Posted By rpoL98: @HenryKnoxFineBooks does the local business you mentioned for anodizing, do they take mail-in unmolested 80% lowers for anodizing? looks like they did an outstanding job. I'll ask as I will be visiting them in the next few days with my next batch. Might IM me as I may forget about this thread. |
"No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people." William Rawle
| I read over the link on borrowing equipment Legality of borrowing equipment for completing "80%" lowers. and as far as I can tell it is very specifically referring to businesses. Is that right? Is it legal for one guy to loan another guy his jig to finish a lower? It looks legal to me. Or is there something else I'm missing? The language in the link talks about stuff like charging a fee and using cnc equipment. |
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Originally Posted By stone-age: I read over the link on borrowing equipment Legality of borrowing equipment for completing "80%" lowers. and as far as I can tell it is very specifically referring to businesses. Is that right? Is it legal for one guy to loan another guy his jig to finish a lower? It looks legal to me. Or is there something else I'm missing? The language in the link talks about stuff like charging a fee and using cnc equipment. Whatever you do it’s at your own risk, ATF makes rules as they go. |
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| Hello I am new to the forum. I am trying to purchase complete or build a 350 legend side charger with an 18 inch barrel. Not having any luck from the major manufacturers. Looking to use it for deer hunting. The idea is to be able to poke out a little further than my 12 gauge. Anyone have any advise or can point me in the right direction? |
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Originally Posted By Oscoda: Hello I am new to the forum. I am trying to purchase complete or build a 350 legend side charger with an 18 inch barrel. Not having any luck from the major manufacturers. Looking to use it for deer hunting. The idea is to be able to poke out a little further than my 12 gauge. Anyone have any advise or can point me in the right direction? This is not the thread you're looking for. Welcome to ARFCOM. Got any Legos? |
Death to quislings.
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Originally Posted By Oscoda: Hello I am new to the forum. I am trying to purchase complete or build a 350 legend side charger with an 18 inch barrel. Not having any luck from the major manufacturers. Looking to use it for deer hunting. The idea is to be able to poke out a little further than my 12 gauge. Anyone have any advise or can point me in the right direction? @Oscoda welcome to Arfcomdom. you probably want to be posting in the AR Variants sub-forum. Arfcom AR Variants sub-forum |
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So I’m just now starting my first 80. I have access to mill and just bought my first two lowers. I need a jig, I thought that it would be something I could go with out, but I think I might of bitten off more than I could chew. I started looking into the price and holy freaking cow those are insane for a jig. After I spent the past 4 days finding one that was affordable, I realized that they don’t have them in stock anymore. The only ones I could find are either replacement parts or the 300+ kits. I’m pretty desperate here any help would be appreciated Another thing I’ve been considering is just making my own jig. But I don’t have a reference for it so maybe if someone’s willing to spend some time on zoom or FaceTime, I could just pull dimensions and Measurements off of a used one and fabricate one. I run a cnc laser so I could cut out the plates/holes and take it to the mill for the side plate holders. |
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I bought a couple of 80% lowers from Daytona Tactical just to have & found out that most of their stock is gone. With the way things are going, restocking might not be something they do till Joe is out of office. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't buy anything from Daytona Tactical as even the BBB has multitudes of complaints against them. If you do get anything, check closely as the specs are off in many ways. If you do still want quality 80% lowers for an AR, try Tactical Machining in the same area with great pricing, quick shipping, high quality items & service to back it all up. If your not happy with something, they will replace it or refund your money. Where can you go wrong with that? |
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Just search online for AR lower dimensions. Compare a few, there have been attempts to seed false dimensions on the internet. Some drawings you find are deliberately incorrect. Some, on the other hand, were changed in very small ways for what I would gather is to avoid an ITAR violation. Then, there was the version that was the Colt 1970 version, but with revisions up to the A2. Wow. Our previous generation was High!!! Some of the engineer drawings and blue prints I've seen from days long since gone are wild. Maybe it was done because of businesses spying on each other: only your machine shop had the correct secret decoder ring setting! If you have a lower where everything fits well, and its not too sloppy, use that one for comparisons as to what you may find on the web. Don't fall in love with mil-spec or mil-std. I know it's a great bragging point, but it's also something written to help a favored contractor win a contract. If it works, copy it!!!!! |
Like a midget at a urinal, I had to be on my toes--Lt. Frank Drebin
SixtyNine (7AUG21) "very interesting, thanks "
Pres. Joe Biden (16FEB21) Biden dismisses Uighur genocide as part of China’s ‘different norms’
SixtyNine (7AUG21) "very interesting, thanks "
Pres. Joe Biden (16FEB21) Biden dismisses Uighur genocide as part of China’s ‘different norms’
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If you're looking for good prices on some 80% lowers, ours will be hard to beat. We've got a lot of different options such as caliber, finish, color and original engravings as well. RTB 80% lowers |
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Originally Posted By FloridaAKM: I bought a couple of 80% lowers from Daytona Tactical just to have & found out that most of their stock is gone. With the way things are going, restocking might not be something they do till Joe is out of office. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't buy anything from Daytona Tactical as even the BBB has multitudes of complaints against them. If you do get anything, check closely as the specs are off in many ways. If you do still want quality 80% lowers for an AR, try Tactical Machining in the same area with great pricing, quick shipping, high quality items & service to back it all up. If your not happy with something, they will replace it or refund your money. Where can you go wrong with that? .. i had ordered from daytona last year, but everything came in safe and sound. Other one i use is durkin tactical. Good prices and pretty prompt. |
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Originally Posted By SailorJ: If you're looking for good prices on some 80% lowers, ours will be hard to beat. We've got a lot of different options such as caliber, finish, color and original engravings as well. RTB 80% lowers Back in the day I bought nothing but Tactical Machining. Never an issue. Then I went through a cycle of nearly any company offering them near an ffl lower price. A LOT of junk out there. All I buy now is RTB (the engraving options are a nice touch) and Anderson when I find them on the cheap. I did receive a batch of Andersons missing the bolt catch spring/detent hole, while I didn't care, just an extra op while clamped in the mill, I can see why router jig guys were disappointed. It's an easy fix even with a hand held drill, but QC disappoints. |
A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. IG @jimstagramguns
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Originally Posted By AFCarbon15: Back in the day I bought nothing but Tactical Machining. Never an issue. Then I went through a cycle of nearly any company offering them near an ffl lower price. A LOT of junk out there. All I buy now is RTB (the engraving options are a nice touch) and Anderson when I find them on the cheap. I did receive a batch of Andersons missing the bolt catch spring/detent hole, while I didn't care, just an extra op while clamped in the mill, I can see why router jig guys were disappointed. It's an easy fix even with a hand held drill, but QC disappoints. Originally Posted By AFCarbon15: Originally Posted By SailorJ: If you're looking for good prices on some 80% lowers, ours will be hard to beat. We've got a lot of different options such as caliber, finish, color and original engravings as well. RTB 80% lowers Back in the day I bought nothing but Tactical Machining. Never an issue. Then I went through a cycle of nearly any company offering them near an ffl lower price. A LOT of junk out there. All I buy now is RTB (the engraving options are a nice touch) and Anderson when I find them on the cheap. I did receive a batch of Andersons missing the bolt catch spring/detent hole, while I didn't care, just an extra op while clamped in the mill, I can see why router jig guys were disappointed. It's an easy fix even with a hand held drill, but QC disappoints. That's not an ongoing QC issue. That was a QC issue at the time Anderson submitted their non-gun sample submission to ATF, and they forgot to drill the bolt catch rollpin hole before hand. ATF approved it as is, so that's the pattern Anderson is stuck w/ for their 80%. 
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Death to quislings.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: That's not an ongoing QC issue. That was a QC issue at the time Anderson submitted their non-gun sample submission to ATF, and they forgot to drill the bolt catch rollpin hole before hand. ATF approved it as is, so that's the pattern Anderson is stuck w/ for their 80%. Wait, this is still happening? Due to the approval? All of the Andersons I've purchased in the last year of so (the anodized ones in the blister packs) are drilled correctly. |
A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. IG @jimstagramguns
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Originally Posted By AFCarbon15: Wait, this is still happening? Due to the approval? All of the Andersons I've purchased in the last year of so (the anodized ones in the blister packs) are drilled correctly. Originally Posted By AFCarbon15: Originally Posted By backbencher: That's not an ongoing QC issue. That was a QC issue at the time Anderson submitted their non-gun sample submission to ATF, and they forgot to drill the bolt catch rollpin hole before hand. ATF approved it as is, so that's the pattern Anderson is stuck w/ for their 80%. Wait, this is still happening? Due to the approval? All of the Andersons I've purchased in the last year of so (the anodized ones in the blister packs) are drilled correctly. Perhaps not. That's good news then. |
Death to quislings.
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Drill Press Question: in anticipation of the SCOTUS ruling in favor of 2A rights and against BATFE on the PMF Privately Made Firearms issue, I am considering purchasing a drill press. Once SCOTUS rules in favor of 2A, I'll be buying the gear I need. My question is what size benchtop drill press should I narrow my search to? I reckon I would need enough space between the bottom of the chuck and the surface of the drill press table to allow enough room for the jig as well as the drill bit/ mill bit. 8 inch seems too short. But would 10 inch or 12 inch do the job? Side Note: it seems there is a rough rule of thumb for pricing between 8 inch, 10 inch, 12 inch. 8 inch can be had for approx $100, 10 inch at $200 and 12 inch at $300. But here's the thing - it appears the only difference between the three sizes is the length of the metal tube that the drill head sits on and the table clamps to! WTH?? C'mon man! 
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Originally Posted By A-Aargh15: Drill Press Question: in anticipation of the SCOTUS ruling in favor of 2A rights and against BATFE on the PMF Privately Made Firearms issue, I am considering purchasing a drill press. Once SCOTUS rules in favor of 2A, I'll be buying the gear I need. My question is what size benchtop drill press should I narrow my search to? I reckon I would need enough space between the bottom of the chuck and the surface of the drill press table to allow enough room for the jig as well as the drill bit/ mill bit. 8 inch seems too short. But would 10 inch or 12 inch do the job? Side Note: it seems there is a rough rule of thumb for pricing between 8 inch, 10 inch, 12 inch. 8 inch can be had for approx $100, 10 inch at $200 and 12 inch at $300. But here's the thing - it appears the only difference between the three sizes is the length of the metal tube that the drill head sits on and the table clamps to! WTH?? C'mon man! What do you intend to do with the drill press? Those benchtop units are fine for drilling holes through bushings as on the side plates, but that is about it. |
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Originally Posted By A-Aargh15: Drill Press Question: in anticipation of the SCOTUS ruling in favor of 2A rights and against BATFE on the PMF Privately Made Firearms issue, I am considering purchasing a drill press. Once SCOTUS rules in favor of 2A, I'll be buying the gear I need. My question is what size benchtop drill press should I narrow my search to? I reckon I would need enough space between the bottom of the chuck and the surface of the drill press table to allow enough room for the jig as well as the drill bit/ mill bit. 8 inch seems too short. But would 10 inch or 12 inch do the job? Side Note: it seems there is a rough rule of thumb for pricing between 8 inch, 10 inch, 12 inch. 8 inch can be had for approx $100, 10 inch at $200 and 12 inch at $300. But here's the thing - it appears the only difference between the three sizes is the length of the metal tube that the drill head sits on and the table clamps to! WTH?? C'mon man! You might be better free-handing and use a drill because cheaper desktop drill stands aren't exactly 90°. |
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8 inches isn't the depth, it's the swing. "When it comes to choosing between an 8-inch or a 12-inch drill press, the main difference lies in the size and capacity of the drill. The measurement refers to the distance from the center of the chuck to the column, which determines the maximum size of the workpiece you can handle. An 8-inch drill press can accommodate smaller projects and materials, while a 12-inch drill press offers more versatility and capacity for larger projects." https://toolsadvisers.com/whats-the-difference-in-a-8-or-12-drill-press/ I picked up an 8" for small jobs and the portability of putting it away when not using it, plus the cost was a big factor. Have always wanted to try an 80% lower and going to start with a polymer kit with included jig to see how it works out. Fun project in my mind. I think this will cover the task well, runs smooth with no detectable runout. Made in Viet Nam and is finished quite well, way better than a HF unit by comparison. |
It's a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack
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Originally Posted By Dagger41: 8 inches isn't the depth, it's the swing. "When it comes to choosing between an 8-inch or a 12-inch drill press, the main difference lies in the size and capacity of the drill. The measurement refers to the distance from the center of the chuck to the column, which determines the maximum size of the workpiece you can handle. An 8-inch drill press can accommodate smaller projects and materials, while a 12-inch drill press offers more versatility and capacity for larger projects." https://toolsadvisers.com/whats-the-difference-in-a-8-or-12-drill-press/ I picked up an 8" for small jobs and the portability of putting it away when not using it, plus the cost was a big factor. Have always wanted to try an 80% lower and going to start with a polymer kit with included jig to see how it works out. Fun project in my mind. I think this will cover the task well, runs smooth with no detectable runout. Made in Viet Nam and is finished quite well, way better than a HF unit by comparison. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/279984/20241126_140736_jpg-3396796.JPG I use that model for the hammer, trigger, and selector holes. |
That's no way for guys like us to go out. We should go out in the midst of a desperate battle, doing great deeds. - COL Rick Rescorla
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Originally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks: I use that model for the hammer, trigger, and selector holes. Waiting on a 4" cross slide vise to arrive, should be here Friday. Was going to buy a used one but after looking at it, it was beat to shit and had a big crack in the boss that is threaded for the vise clamping screw. Pretty sure I can make it work with the small drill press, either on the adjustable base table or on the base itself. It shouldn't be under much stress as I don't plan on milling aluminum with it. Kind of a test to see if the setup will work with a polymer lower, I just couldn't wrap my head around hand bombing it with just a 4" drill press vise and a plastic jig. Let alone a hand drill or a Dremel. LOL |
It's a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack
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Got here a day early, had to do a test fit. If I raise it up 5/8" from the base it will work with both jigs. I have a 5/8" thick unused hardwood cutting board that is about to get repurposed. |
It's a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack
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Originally Posted By 4570govt: Have a 80% arms ar10 lower and lost the screw fot the bolt release. They are out of stock so I'm trying to find the correct thread size? https://www.80percentarms.com/products/bolt-catch-screw-kit/ https://www.5dtactical.com/products/308-bolt-catch-screw-kit/ https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018653637?pid=977338 The Midway USA site has a "Q/A" section on the page, and the answer on that page is 6/32 thread. |
Like a midget at a urinal, I had to be on my toes--Lt. Frank Drebin
SixtyNine (7AUG21) "very interesting, thanks"
Pres. Joe Biden (16FEB21) Biden dismisses Uighur genocide as part of China’s ‘different norms’
SixtyNine (7AUG21) "very interesting, thanks"
Pres. Joe Biden (16FEB21) Biden dismisses Uighur genocide as part of China’s ‘different norms’
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