How many lumens is enough?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How many lumens is enough?

Posted: 11/27/2018 1:46:13 PM EDT

Hi all

Getting a light for a 10.5 pistol and I am truly hesitating between TLR-3 and TLR-7.
TLR-3 has those great rocking switches and it is super compact and I know it will fit beautifully under the guard, just in front of the hand stop. But it is only 125 lumen as it is made for a handgun. The TLR-7 is even lighter and smaller, but it has 500 lumens - but everyone is complaining about the switch, witch isn't a "toggle" style.

I currently borrowed my TLR-1 HL from another weapon just to try on the pistol, and it is great - but I want something shorter and lighter, and both 3 and 7 seem to fit the bill. It's just that 125 vs 500 lumens issue - otherwise i would be getting the 3 without hesitation.

So - will 125 lumen be enough for a "pistol" AR?

Thanks in advance!

Posted: 11/27/2018 1:58:02 PM EDT

[#1]

"how much is enough"

More. More is enough. We have yet to find the point of having too many lumens/lux/candella.

I have a TLR-7, and while I don't hate the thing, it's definitely not my top choice. Partly because switches, and partly because of the beam pattern, but it's about the only light I could get to fit on an HK45C with a custom key. It's better than a Viridian, which is the only other option.

For an AR pistol, you've got tons of room comparable to a handgun. You could easily at least get an X300U with an Unity EXO and be putting down 1000 lumens.

Or there's the M600DF, where you can be dumping 1500L. If I could get that much light on my pistol, I happily would. For a rifle, I'd like to run a DF or the Cloud Defensive OWL or such.

More lumens = more better.

Posted: 11/27/2018 2:13:03 PM EDT

[#2]

"How many lumens is enough?"

All of them

Posted: 11/27/2018 2:17:55 PM EDT

[#3]

More = better.

In before the "you'll blind yourself with a mirror or white wall people."

Posted: 11/27/2018 2:28:45 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
More = better.

In before the "you'll blind yourself with a mirror or white wall people."

View Quote

But you will! (Said just so taulce02 could be in)

Posted: 11/27/2018 2:56:43 PM EDT

[#5]

"So - will 125 lumen be enough for a "pistol" AR?"

I'd want much more outdoors. I have satin, light-tan walls in most areas of the house and 800 lumens is no problem regarding "bounce" back to my eyes. If never outdoors, I'd go 400 or so.

Posted: 11/27/2018 3:15:21 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
More = better.

In before the "you'll blind yourself with a mirror or white wall people."

View Quote

Well, you will. My nightstand ARs have 500 lumen lights. They're bright enough that when I get out of bed at 3am to investigate a sound the wife heard, they dazzle the shit out of me. I'm not even looking at mirrors and white walls. Just turning on a light that bright is enough. I'm basically blind for 10-30 seconds just from the indirect light. If you shine one of these at your eyes, even in broad daylight, you can't see anything for at least a minute. All you see are big white spots.

More = better until you get to too much.
Need proof? B boobs, nice. C boobs, niiice, DD boobs, fucknig sweet. ZZZ boobs? disgusting, veiny, stretched out, sagging.

The "right" amount of lumens is different depending on the situation. For inside the house at night time, 500 is what I'd consider too much.

Posted: 11/27/2018 3:28:40 PM EDT

[#7]

Sounds like you need an Olight PL-Mini

Super small, rechargeable and 400 lumens

Posted: 11/27/2018 3:39:21 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sounds like you need an Olight PL-Mini

Super small, rechargeable and 400 lumens

View Quote

Agree with everyone else, the most you can get. I have this light btw on my pistol. I love it except how hard to use the momentary rocker is, I have to use my left thumb instead of my right finger like I am used to.

Posted: 11/27/2018 5:49:53 PM EDT

[#9]

To put it in perspective, I have a single AA keychain light that's about 10 years old that's 115 lumens.

To me 125 lumens is not enough.

I put a Surfire G2X tactical on one of my shotguns last summer. It's 600 lumens, has kind of a flood style beam, and a constant on clicky tailcap. I like it, I plant to put another on my AR pistol.

Posted: 11/27/2018 6:38:05 PM EDT

[#10]

I remember my first ''good'' flashlight was 125 lumens. I thought it was amazing at the time, still have it.
125 lumens is laughable compared to modern flashlights. I have some rechargeable Revtronic flashlights that are 800 lumens and they only cost like $25. They are truly 800 lumens, have a few settings and are very durable. I stick a scope ring on them and they are ready to throw on a rail when needed. You can change out the rear push button for a pressure pad if you wanted to. I generally use them as hand held but the ability to throw them on a rail is also handy.
As cheap as you can get extremely bright high quality flashlights I would just buy one.

Posted: 11/27/2018 7:06:17 PM EDT

[#11]

I use 300ish lumen lights because they’re bright enough for anything within “self defense” ranges and because they’re gentler on batteries. I find the idea of a light that toasts batteries in a couple minutes silly.

Most of these gazillion lumen lights are only at that peak lumen for a few minutes anyways. Like 2-5 mins or so... then they fade back down to normal 500ish lumen number for awhile.

So I keep a TLR-1 on my nightstand gun and simple Surefire G2X Pro Duals on my two defensive long guns.

Posted: 11/27/2018 7:52:14 PM EDT

[#12]

I went with 500 lumens

Posted: 11/27/2018 8:03:21 PM EDT

[#13]

Posted: 11/27/2018 11:19:44 PM EDT

[#14]

Thank you all!
I went with Olight Pl Mini!
Always find good information here.

Posted: 11/28/2018 12:39:16 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

Well, you will. My nightstand ARs have 500 lumen lights. They're bright enough that when I get out of bed at 3am to investigate a sound the wife heard, they dazzle the shit out of me. I'm not even looking at mirrors and white walls. Just turning on a light that bright is enough. I'm basically blind for 10-30 seconds just from the indirect light. If you shine one of these at your eyes, even in broad daylight, you can't see anything for at least a minute. All you see are big white spots.

More = better until you get to too much.
Need proof? B boobs, nice. C boobs, niiice, DD boobs, fucknig sweet. ZZZ boobs? disgusting, veiny, stretched out, sagging.

The "right" amount of lumens is different depending on the situation. For inside the house at night time, 500 is what I'd consider too much.

View Quote

This has been gone over time and time and time again. Unless you’re a vampire you want all the lumens. If you’re blinding yourself you’re doing something wrong.

Blinding yourself from indirect, 500 lumen, light? I’m super light sensitive and I can take my Surefire 600df in a tight hallway some not sure how you’re blinding yourself.

Remember folks, you don’t know what you’re going to encounter. Even after shooting some rounds your light might need to punch through the resulting smoke. Going to be hard with your wimpy light.

Posted: 11/28/2018 3:25:08 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
This has been gone over time and time and time again. Unless you’re a vampire you want all the lumens. If you’re blinding yourself you’re doing something wrong.

View Quote

So lets break this down.
I'm turning on a 500 lumen light, indoors, at night, with no other light around. The light is bright enough to blind me for a short amount of time.
Based on your own statement, I've done something wrong. So which part of that was wrong? Turning on a light? Using a 500 lumen light in that situation?

There's no one light thats best in every situation. In this situation, you're left not being able to see for a little bit. Just hope that your eyes adjust and your vision works again before you need to pull the trigger.

Posted: 11/28/2018 3:45:30 PM EDT

[#17]

Sunglasses and hearing protection should be donned before engaging the intruder(s).
"Hang on a sec, please. Give me a moment to get geared up and I'll be right with you."

Posted: 11/28/2018 6:33:39 PM EDT

[#18]

Check out Sage Dynamics on Youtube. Aaron Cowan addresses this topic pretty extensively.

The best thing that you can do is go take a low light class and learn proper lighting techniques.

Here is his video where he pokes fun at the "too many lumens" crowd.
https://www.facebook.com/sagedynamics/videos/1650281378382834/

Posted: 11/28/2018 8:00:06 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Check out Sage Dynamics on Youtube. Aaron Cowan addresses this topic pretty extensively.

The best thing that you can do is go take a low light class and learn proper lighting techniques.

Here is his video where he pokes fun at the "too many lumens" crowd.
https://www.facebook.com/sagedynamics/videos/1650281378382834/

View Quote

Well the obvious difference is that guy's flashlight is not on his pistol. This being the pistol forum, and the OP asking about a light for his pistol, it doesn't make sense to just say 'point your gun at the ceiling if your light is too bright'. Sure, it helps keep you from blinding yourself, but a guaran-damn-tee you won't be winning any fire fights with your gun pointed at the sky.

Posted: 11/28/2018 9:10:48 PM EDT

[#20]

Sometimes a hi output weapon light is not desirable at all. Depends on the situation your in. Scouting a threat in an area where you do not want to say "Hey Here I'M' would not require Hi lumens weapons light but rather a low signature output light just to see and search with.

Posted: 11/28/2018 9:49:41 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sometimes a hi output weapon light is not desirable at all. Depends on the situation your in. Scouting a threat in an area where you do not want to say "Hey Here I'M' would not require Hi lumens weapons light but rather a low signature output light just to see and search with.

View Quote

It occurs to me that someone "out there" who is more likely to have already adapted their vision is going to see me whether I'm scouring with 1,000 lumens, or 125, or the key-fob light, or a kitchen match. Just trying to figure out why I'd want the latter two; really.

Posted: 11/29/2018 9:51:25 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
It occurs to me that someone "out there" who is more likely to have already adapted their vision is going to see me whether I'm scouring with 1,000 lumens, or 125, or the key-fob light, or a kitchen match. Just trying to figure out why I'd want the latter two; really.

View Quote

I am no Aaron Cowan by a long shot but the dry training we do at home where I would most likely use a weapon with a light, I have yet to encounter any light blindness or washout but have several times found I did not have enough light. On my shotgun I have an old surefire x200 60 lumen and it is about as inadequate as using a match. I have an 850 lumen streamlight and I would prefer it to any dim light any night in any situation in my home. That is handheld however. My AR has an X300 500 lumen and my pistol has a 400 lumen olight.

Posted: 11/29/2018 10:42:38 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
I am no Aaron Cowan by a long shot but the dry training we do at home where I would most likely use a weapon with a light, I have yet to encounter any light blindness or washout but have several times found I did not have enough light. On my shotgun I have an old surefire x200 60 lumen and it is about as inadequate as using a match.

View Quote

Yeah, kinda what I was getting at. Thanks.

Posted: 11/29/2018 7:33:48 PM EDT

[#24]

I have a new Surefire m600df on my 10.5 pistol.

You can never have enough and if you think you’re going to blind yourself get some training. If you’re getting training and the instructor says X lumens is too much get a better instructor.

Posted: 11/29/2018 7:36:21 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sometimes a hi output weapon light is not desirable at all. Depends on the situation your in. Scouting a threat in an area where you do not want to say "Hey Here I'M' would not require Hi lumens weapons light but rather a low signature output light just to see and search with.

View Quote

No. Like I said, better training. There are instructors out there that will still get you even if you’re hiding in the corner of a pitch black room and they are searching using a light with the equivalent of the sun.

Posted: 12/1/2018 11:05:13 PM EDT

[#26]

I noticed a huge difference when I went with an elzetta light. The color is amazing compared to my surfires for one. Never really noticed but now that I have, I really appreciate the color of the light coming out of the elzetta. Also even though I didn’t get the “flood” lense, my light has no hot spot. If I’m inside anything and turni it on it will light the place up without a blinding spot in the middle. Still have other lights but my elzetta is favorite and will buy more when I can.

Posted: 12/2/2018 3:58:00 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a new Surefire m600df on my 10.5 pistol.

You can never have enough and if you think you’re going to blind yourself get some training. If you’re getting training and the instructor says X lumens is too much get a better instructor.

View Quote

I agree to a point, for a dedicated weapon light, more is often better. If it's exceptionally bright(400+) and/or stealth is key in room clearing, consider using other techniques like strobing.

For the folks concerned about excessive brightness, or washout, I'd say that's what a handheld light is for. Incandescents/250s certainly have their place in the SAR/search toolbag.

Posted: 12/3/2018 8:25:31 AM EDT

[#28]

Streamlight TLR-1 HL 800 lumens. Was a surefire fan boy for years until I was shown the light, literally. Streamlight gets you more lumens for allot less than surefire.

Posted: 12/3/2018 8:28:16 AM EDT

[#29]

indoors 200 outdoors 500 or more.

Posted: 12/3/2018 9:38:09 AM EDT

[#30]

ALL THE LUMENS! Some of you guys must have very responsive eyes. I can pulse my 500L lamp indoors and have no ill-effects. Of course I'm usually pulsing at low-ready so splashback off a wall is unlikely. I also make it a point not to pulse walls 3 feet in front of me. If a wall surprises me at that distance, that probably means it's pitch black and I shouldn't be stumbling around without a light on anwyay.

Regardless, mount the brightest light you can in the available size format you want. Slap a filter on the thing if it's more than you want indoors. That way you have to option to flip the cap for full power. Other option is of course a programmable lamp with low/hi settings.

It's no longer a pistol, but I run a Streamlight Protac Rail-1 on my shorty. 350 lumens. It's fairly compact on a Arisaka Defense offset mount.

Attached File

Posted: 12/3/2018 9:50:12 AM EDT

[#31]

indoors that is pushing the low end of functional.

not only do you want enough light to see and ID, but enough to also spill into other areas that may be hard to see.

jmho, but a super bright light designed for outdoors works fine indoors, a low power light designed for indoors SUCKS outdoors. for me 4-500lm seems to be the sweet spot for distance and indoor.

Posted: 12/3/2018 9:52:59 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Agree with everyone else, the most you can get. I have this light btw on my pistol. I love it except how hard to use the momentary rocker is, I have to use my left thumb instead of my right finger like I am used to.

https://i.imgur.com/j1v6SST.jpg

View Quote

just got one of these on the sale. i gotta admit i am impressed with it.

Posted: 12/3/2018 10:27:55 AM EDT

[#33]

The throw and spread of a light can effect how bright or blinding it appears indoors. I'm not sure why anyone would consider 5-600 lumens to be to much though. Indirect and reflected light from a 600 lumen light is not blinding at all to me. Unless your shining the light directly into a mirror and catch it in the face 600 lumens is nothing overwhelming.

Posted: 12/3/2018 10:55:21 AM EDT

[#34]

A sunny day is something like 10,000 lumens. So... Probably that.

Light is information. More light allowed more information to be gathered and processed.

The "too many lumens" crowd will cite mirrors and white walls. Learn how to use indirect lighting and don't look directly in the emitter and you'll be fine.

Posted: 12/3/2018 11:22:41 AM EDT

[#35]

The throw / hot spot of a light is just important as Lumens.

Posted: 12/3/2018 1:41:35 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
So lets break this down.
I'm turning on a 500 lumen light, indoors, at night, with no other light around. The light is bright enough to blind me for a short amount of time.
Based on your own statement, I've done something wrong. So which part of that was wrong? Turning on a light? Using a 500 lumen light in that situation?

There's no one light thats best in every situation. In this situation, you're left not being able to see for a little bit. Just hope that your eyes adjust and your vision works again before you need to pull the trigger.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This has been gone over time and time and time again. Unless you’re a vampire you want all the lumens. If you’re blinding yourself you’re doing something wrong.

So lets break this down.
I'm turning on a 500 lumen light, indoors, at night, with no other light around. The light is bright enough to blind me for a short amount of time.
Based on your own statement, I've done something wrong. So which part of that was wrong? Turning on a light? Using a 500 lumen light in that situation?

There's no one light thats best in every situation. In this situation, you're left not being able to see for a little bit. Just hope that your eyes adjust and your vision works again before you need to pull the trigger.

Umbrella illuminate and you won't blind yourself, even with lights well over 1000 lumens.

Posted: 12/6/2018 4:40:35 PM EDT

[#37]

Splashback is a real thing, son.

I used to work for Streamlight and will tell you it's very real.

If the pistol is for outdoors I'd want a lot of lumens...400 and up, but indoors i can live with under 100 lumens.

I made sure when I painted my house the walls were not a glossy color as gloss makes splashback worse.

Also consider that when you first wake up from a deep sleep your eyes need to get adjusted to the light...you dont need blinding lumens right when your first wake up.

Quote History

Quoted:
More = better.

In before the "you'll blind yourself with a mirror or white wall people."

View Quote

Posted: 12/6/2018 5:32:30 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
A sunny day is something like 10,000 lumens. So... Probably that.

Light is information. More light allowed more information to be gathered and processed.

The "too many lumens" crowd will cite mirrors and white walls. Learn how to use indirect lighting and don't look directly in the emitter and you'll be fine.

View Quote

if you know how to work it, it can be a bonus.

Posted: 12/6/2018 10:17:33 PM EDT

[#39]

Just Incase you haven’t got the hint yet, you want.....the sun.

I run a new Surefire 600df 1500 lumens on both my ar15 10.5 pistols. If I can find a good drop in head that has 2500 lumens I’d get it.

Posted: 12/6/2018 10:19:10 PM EDT

[#40]

Nvm.

Posted: 12/7/2018 10:30:06 PM EDT

[#41]

Just got a 1200 lume surefire handheld. With non-flood lense. Tir I think they call it. Anyway it’s amazjngly bright and would be perfect on my hd AR if it didn’t already have a 600 lume light on it.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How many lumens is enough?

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