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Posted: 1/29/2022 9:59:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m guessing that was his point, that you may have missed in his sarcasm Oh I didn't miss the sarcasm but I've seen a lot of butt-hurt over that word before, not just about this particular product/topic. |
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Posted: 1/29/2022 10:36:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just might take you up on that offer. What say ye ARFCOM? Would you be interested in me doing an accuracy evaluation of M855A1 through multiple barrels, along with chronographing? ... I would absolutely love to see that. I only have a few rounds of it. Maybe 5 or so. Enough for one group and I think each one is different years  so useless for an accuracy test.Then later on in the post compare it to 855 since that's one of the biggest grips and pros about 855 and 855a1. I've been told 855a1 is vastly more accurate than 855. |
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Posted: 1/29/2022 11:43:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are/were a lot of rumors that it was/is loaded hotter than most any other service round . . .   .... |
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Posted: 1/29/2022 11:53:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryInteresting, thank you! It has been a while since 2013, I wonder if there have been rolling changes since. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 9:50:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would absolutely love to see that. I only have a few rounds of it. Maybe 5 or so. Enough for one group and I think each one is different years so useless for an accuracy test.Then later on in the post compare it to 855 since that's one of the biggest grips and pros about 855 and 855a1. I've been told 855a1 is vastly more accurate than 855. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I just might take you up on that offer. What say ye ARFCOM? Would you be interested in me doing an accuracy evaluation of M855A1 through multiple barrels, along with chronographing? ... I would absolutely love to see that. I only have a few rounds of it. Maybe 5 or so. Enough for one group and I think each one is different years so useless for an accuracy test.Then later on in the post compare it to 855 since that's one of the biggest grips and pros about 855 and 855a1. I've been told 855a1 is vastly more accurate than 855. I doubt that. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 9:57:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is it called the "John Wick Profile"? And how/why is the hodge defense barrel "optimized" for 855a1? I'm genuinely curious. Marketing for the gullible. Well it’s likely the steel isn’t different than all other fn made chf barrels as well as the chrome lining/bore/rifling is the likely the same. I’d say gas port size and profile are the only differences over the rest. The only other difference that there could be would be chamber, but I doubt that is different either. ETA: and they say the ports are Military spec so I doubt that’s ‘optimized’ either. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 10:30:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Chuck Pressburg (sniper for 5 of his 26 years of SOF service) and Jon Canipe (currently a director of project management at Magpul). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do these gentlemen have names? Yes. Chuck Pressburg (sniper for 5 of his 26 years of SOF service) and Jon Canipe (currently a director of project management at Magpul). Didn't Pressburg work for Hodge? Or they are at least familiar through that series of podcasts all the old guys trying to stay relevant do. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 10:44:36 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't Pressburg work for Hodge? Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't Pressburg work for Hodge? Not that I'm aware. I've been a Patron of Chuck's for a couple years and have listened to most of his Q&A sessions and I've never heard any indications that he's worked for him. Chuck has done consulting for a lot of companies/organizations so maybe Jim asked Chuck for some input at some point, but that is pure speculation on my part. Or they are at least familiar through that series of podcasts all the old guys trying to stay relevant do. What? |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 10:50:36 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not that I'm aware. I've been a Patron of Chuck's for a couple years and have listened to most of his Q&A sessions and I've never heard any indications that he's worked for him. Chuck has done consulting for a lot of companies/organizations so maybe Jim asked Chuck for some input at some point, but that is pure speculation on my part. What? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Didn't Pressburg work for Hodge? Not that I'm aware. I've been a Patron of Chuck's for a couple years and have listened to most of his Q&A sessions and I've never heard any indications that he's worked for him. Chuck has done consulting for a lot of companies/organizations so maybe Jim asked Chuck for some input at some point, but that is pure speculation on my part. Or they are at least familiar through that series of podcasts all the old guys trying to stay relevant do. What? Primary and secondary |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 11:06:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Primary and secondary You're trying to ask if they are familiar with each other only through P&S? I don't know the specifics of their relationship but I'm pretty sure they knew each other before Jim showed up on the podcast. Jim carried a weapon at some point for some gov organization and seems to know quite a lot of people in the SOF community and industry from which his company/project grew from. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 11:16:07 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're trying to ask if they are familiar with each other only through P&S? I don't know the specifics of their relationship but I'm pretty sure they knew each other before Jim showed up on the podcast. Jim carried a weapon at some point for some gov organization and seems to know quite a lot of people in the SOF community and industry from which his company/project grew from. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Primary and secondary You're trying to ask if they are familiar with each other only through P&S? I don't know the specifics of their relationship but I'm pretty sure they knew each other before Jim showed up on the podcast. Jim carried a weapon at some point for some gov organization and seems to know quite a lot of people in the SOF community and industry from which his company/project grew from. I wasn't asking anything. Now I have questions about the "some government organization". That should be a simple thing to determine right? |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 11:25:10 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wasn't asking anything. Now I have questions about the "some government organization". That should be a simple thing to determine right? I see. How is trying to stay relevant working out for them do you think? Jim mentioned some bits of his background in an interview. I don't know how simple it would be to determine the details of his career if he didn't post it publicly. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 11:27:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see. How is trying to stay relevant working out for them do you think? Jim mentioned some bits of his background in an interview. I don't know how simple it would be to determine the details of his career if he didn't post it publicly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wasn't asking anything. Now I have questions about the "some government organization". That should be a simple thing to determine right? I see. How is trying to stay relevant working out for them do you think? Jim mentioned some bits of his background in an interview. I don't know how simple it would be to determine the details of his career if he didn't post it publicly. Evidently he is current SOF. ODS is a small family business that is active SOF owned. https://www.opdsource.com/AboutUs.asp |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 11:33:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryI'm pretty sure Jim isn't currently active SOF. I'm not seeing the evidence on ODS's page. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 1:15:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see. How is trying to stay relevant working out for them do you think? Jim mentioned some bits of his background in an interview. I don't know how simple it would be to determine the details of his career if he didn't post it publicly. I have no clue. I dont follow everyone who appears on it, so go ahead and tell me. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 1:17:53 PM EDT
[#16]
@molon
Have you tested DSA arms barrels by chance? I don't have any data at all to back it up. But I feel at sub $180 they cannot be beat. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 1:33:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @molon Have you tested DSA arms barrels by chance? I don't have any data at all to back it up. But I feel at sub $180 they cannot be beat. So only carbine and rifle gas stuff, no mid lengths? I'm out. But I'll be sure to show people who ask and are on a budget. Use "arfcom free shipping" in the order comments if you didn't already know. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 1:45:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @molon Have you tested DSA arms barrels by chance? I don't have any data at all to back it up. But I feel at sub $180 they cannot be beat. I have not. Maybe if I get caught-up on The List this summer I'll take a look at one. ... |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 1:49:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So only carbine and rifle gas stuff, no mid lengths? I'm out. But I'll be sure to show people who ask and are on a budget. Use "arfcom free shipping" in the order comments if you didn't already know. Yeah I wish there were some mid length options. Again no data and I only have a 2 one in 10.3 and one in 16" and they're accurate enough for me. But I didn't know if they hold up to others. They also sell FN barrels but I think they're just factory FN and not made for DSA. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 4:40:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no clue. I dont follow everyone who appears on it, so go ahead and tell me. Well most of them are on there in the first place because they are doing great things, often behind the scenes. Truthfully it's been a while since I've regularly tuned in, but it really is a great resource network, even if everything/everyone isn't relevant to one's particular needs/niche. Why did you post the ODS website? Did something lead you to believe that was Hodge's personal store? |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 5:10:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well most of them are on there in the first place because they are doing great things, often behind the scenes. Truthfully it's been a while since I've regularly tuned in, but it really is a great resource network, even if everything/everyone isn't relevant to one's particular needs/niche. Why did you post the ODS website? Did something lead you to believe that was Hodge's personal store? That was my mistake, thats the first place that popped up in a Google search. I didnt find out a lot about Hodge in my cursory search. |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 5:20:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was my mistake, thats the first place that popped up in a Google search. I didnt find out a lot about Hodge in my cursory search. Ah, no problem. Here are a couple interviews and the Modcast with the man himself: https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/hodge-defense-interview-jim-hodge/ https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/hodge-defense-systems-a-2021-update-with-jim-hodge/  P&S ModCast 84 - Gun Nerds 1: History & Advancement In Firearms |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 10:36:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mark Smith shot his Hodge 12.5 on video with chronograph. A 10-shot average of IMI 77gr was 2,498fps for him. Is that about consistent with your experience? https://www.instagram.com/p/CY9IsJPBJW_/ I’m getting 2,535-ish with a 77gr hand load, so that’s about right. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 9:47:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If this is the same RL15/52gr SMK load you’ve used, VihtaVuori N135. ... |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 10:32:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryWhat i find interesting about the charts is that while the chamber pressure has a variance of 10k psi on average, the port pressures vary by approx 800psi (adjusted) average. Meaning that the extra velocity if the A1 is achieved with a much faster burning powder that nearly completely expends by the time the bullet reaches the gas port. This also means the bullet reaches near max velocity prior to the gas port with any residual powder burn providing sustainment, not an increase in velocity. Which explains why the M4A1 only requires a heavier buffer and not a substantially stronger action spring. Even then, bolt speed does increase enough that a new disco spring was required as part if the M4A1 MWO upgrade. And this also explains the modification of the throat erosion gauge for guns running M855A1 allows for a far greater reading than normal because the higher pressures equal higher temperatures and greater erosion in the same round count as standard M855. Barrel life is a consideration of two factors. Velocity and accuracy. The two do not necessarily equate. Barrels are good until they aren't and predicting when they fail is not an exact science. Given the years of data the Department of Defense has gathered, they have created a baseline if approximately how much throat erosion can occur before a barrel GENERALLY fails to perform one of of those two functions. A barrel can remain very accurate well beyond the throat erosion gauge failure, but will not meet velocity spec OR, conversely, it may remain within velocity spec, but go above acceptable accuracy standards. With the much faster M855A1, easily maintaining the same velocity standards, the primary driving standard becomes accuracy. Meaning the DoD has determined that with M855A1, accuracy is maintained even with significantly more throat and bore erosion. On another note, gas port erosion remains a non-issue on military guns and remains an esoteric exercise in mental masturbation in these very tech forums.
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Posted: 2/5/2022 1:35:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is it called the "John Wick Profile"? . The Colt pencil barrel is the John Wick profile. ... |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 6:34:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Coming 2nd quarter 2022 . . .
 ... |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:42:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Coming 2nd quarter 2022 . . . https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/coming_2nd_quarter_2022_001_resized-2275835.jpg ... VERY Nice !! |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 1:26:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been told 855a1 is vastly more accurate than 855. Almost anything is.  ... |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 3:58:18 PM EDT
[#30]
 ... |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 11:56:30 AM EDT
[#31]
 ..... |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 1:05:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Thank You.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 1:36:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryGravities? Please educate me.
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Posted: 3/5/2022 7:46:19 PM EDT
[#34]
 .... |
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Posted: 3/26/2022 1:12:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gravities? Please educate me. In this case, it's the ratio of the density of the bullet compared to the density of distilled water. Since the M855A1 bullet is constructed of copper and steel (no lead) it has a lower specific gravity than lead-core copper-jacketed bullets. .. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 4:16:21 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: That was my mistake, thats the first place that popped up in a Google search. I didnt find out a lot about Hodge in my cursory search. Hodge Defense is more of an R&D firm. It's really Jim and his designs, it's his approach to the AR15 series of rifles. He has many close contacts in the industry and has worked on different projects. He has ties with many companies one of which is FCD. He is not a manufacturer and never has claimed to be, but he owns the dies to his receivers and he has designed rails like the wedgelock, pinch lock and spine lock. His barrels are made by FN to his spec with a taper that is more unique to design. ODS, Weapons Outfitters Big Tex Ordance and OP Tactical all carry his parts. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 10:58:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryM855A1 ? |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 1:43:34 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M855A1 ? Quote HistoryQuoted: M855A1 ? Yep, Esstac offered some to Molon to test. |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 9:23:15 PM EDT
[#39]
 .... |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 10:28:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gravities? Please educate me. Google Archimedes for more info. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 8:23:32 PM EDT
[#41]
The individual squares in the red grid below are 1/10th of an inch.
 .... |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:16:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The individual squares in the red grid below are 1/10th of an inch. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/m855_powder_022-2342586.jpg .... |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 6:44:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any guess as to what powder they're (I'm assuming LC) using for 855A1? If we can believe this, SMP-842.  .... |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 8:54:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Very interesting thread as always.
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Posted: 5/18/2022 11:05:29 AM EDT
[#45]
M855A1 cuts the cleanest bullet holes in paper targets that I've ever seen for 5.56mm/223 Remington. It's like a wadcutter for rifle rounds.
 ... |
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Posted: 5/18/2022 4:02:42 PM EDT
[#46]
I am going to chime in to this. have some questions and comments.
i recently purchased a hodge 14.5 barrel new from a retailer for far less than i have seen anywhere else. just a bit over what we see other CHF CL barrels for. I have yet to decide if i am going to keep it but if i don't i will either return and sell on EE for the a bit cheaper than what i bought it for as someone may want the barrel. I was listening to some barrel makers talk about CHF process. some were for AR barrels others were bolt actions. Both were on youtube and and described that a tapered bore is ideal for CHF as it is easier on the equipment to pull out the mandrel from the barrel. they made it sound like all CHF barrels were this way or just could be theirs. One was in is subtitles as they were in some European country. the FN barrels i think are all tapered as it was found more cost effective on the equipment they use. if i am wrong please tell me. second on the hodge barrel would you consider the flutes inside the before before the rifling the optimized part for the higher pressure m855a1 ammo? doesn't HK do this on their barrels for easier extraction? does anyone know if it is 4150 or 9310H steel on the barrel? third back on the optimized part of the marketing. i know it gets thrown out a lot but i don't see how it is optimized for for supressor use for high pressured ammo? gas ports measure at 0.076 same as my DD barrels, unless they say due to the profile and steel it can handle being heated up barrel. just picked up the BRT 13.9 HF barrel and it was 0.075. Both passed the all my testing great but the inside of the bore didn't look as flawless as my DD barrels which look hand lapped. i don't care what people say about certain items really until i test them. stats don't mean $h!t to the individual. i test out my gear to see what it does and if it want to my standards/expectations. with saying all that i am curious to know why the hate on hodge barrels when they are technically cheaper than the noveske barrels? |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 3:47:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we can believe this, SMP-842. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/m855a1_powder_chart_001-2345854.jpg .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Any guess as to what powder they're (I'm assuming LC) using for 855A1? If we can believe this, SMP-842. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/m855a1_powder_chart_001-2345854.jpg .... General Dynamics also states that SMP-842 is the powder used in M855A1.  ... |
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Posted: 7/10/2022 11:07:13 AM EDT
[#48]
 .... |
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Posted: 7/10/2022 2:05:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Criterion barrel review by Molon:
The three, 10-shot groups fired in a row from the Criterion 16” CORE barrel from a distance of 100 yards had the following extreme spreads: 1.15” 1.09” 1.13” for an average 10-shot group extreme spread of 1.12”. Also the Colt 6920 turned in a group with an ES of 1.19, although not typical. The Hodge had an ES of 1.24 with its secret special sauce. Hmm. Molon, you sure are an eye opener. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 1:46:29 AM EDT
[#50]
Texas space magic, indeed. ??
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