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Posted: 7/25/2017 11:11:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRW:
I would expect chrome lined to last longer than Nitride on a full auto barrel due to chrome's ability to shrug off heat. Yet in my experience, nitride is inherently more accurate than chrome lined because the rifling can be machined with greater precision. I don't have any full auto rifles, and so nitride is fine with me. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2017 11:59:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilenceThis:
Yes because soooo many bolt guns are being built with nitride barrels nowadays. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilenceThis:
Originally Posted By MRW:
I would expect chrome lined to last longer than Nitride on a full auto barrel due to chrome's ability to shrug off heat. Yet in my experience, nitride is inherently more accurate than chrome lined because the rifling can be machined with greater precision. I don't have any full auto rifles, and so nitride is fine with me. 
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Posted: 7/29/2017 2:47:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilenceThis:
Yes because soooo many bolt guns are being built with nitride barrels nowadays. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 6:57:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run:
Ron how are you govnah gas blocks holding up? Since micromoa shut down are you using something new? 
The govnah gas blocks continue to work in the shorties and that wouldn't run with a standard gas block. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 6:59:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OldArmy:
Sooo I'm not going though this whole thread looking for it, is there any data on the Tavor or AUG? Just curious how a quality 5.56 D.I. 20" AR with proper sized (not over sized) gas port stacks up in terms of parts reliability/service life. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 7:50:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Damn.... they shut down
The govnah gas blocks continue to work in the shorties and that wouldn't run with a standard gas block. V/R Ron https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-11682%2B4294941259%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1&userItemsPerPage=48&persistedItemsPerPage=0 |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 9:11:36 PM EDT
[#7]
SLR rifleworks is pretty hard to beat when it comes to adjustable gas blocks
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Posted: 7/30/2017 11:28:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Damn.... they shut down
The govnah gas blocks continue to work in the shorties and that wouldn't run with a standard gas block. V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By 2tired2run:
Ron how are you govnah gas blocks holding up? Since micromoa shut down are you using something new?
The govnah gas blocks continue to work in the shorties and that wouldn't run with a standard gas block. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 11:37:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cjwwd2:
SLR rifleworks is pretty hard to beat when it comes to adjustable gas blocks Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cjwwd2:
SLR rifleworks is pretty hard to beat when it comes to adjustable gas blocks Originally Posted By jefflebowski:
Try Superlative, I like mine. https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-11682%2B4294941259%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1&userItemsPerPage=48&persistedItemsPerPage=0 |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 7/31/2017 12:23:57 PM EDT
[#10]
God bless you, Ron Burgundy.
Have you tried chrome silica buffer springs? They supposedly last 500k-750k cycles. They can be found cheap as hell, too. |
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Posted: 7/31/2017 3:20:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run:
Thanks guys....Not to derail but the switch block style like the Govnah was appealing. All the others I've seen are set screw style, I'm just surprised no makes a switch block style DI gas block similar to those used on a piston rifle. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run:
Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
SLR rifleworks is pretty hard to beat when it comes to adjustable gas blocks Originally Posted By jefflebowski:
Try Superlative, I like mine. https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-11682%2B4294941259%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1&userItemsPerPage=48&persistedItemsPerPage=0 |
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USA
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:34:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Hey OP, just read a few pages of great info that you've posted.
I wanted to ask, and it's probably been mentioned in the last 29 pages, but I figured I'd just ask anyway.... KNS pins on a m16 lower: Do you use them, are they needed in your experience? Any wear to the hammer/trigger pin holes in the lower from extensive full auto use if your not using them? Also, do you shoot 9mm out of the m16's? Any issues you've come across, if so? |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 1:06:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bending_rodriguez:
Hey OP, just read a few pages of great info that you've posted. I wanted to ask, and it's probably been mentioned in the last 29 pages, but I figured I'd just ask anyway.... KNS pins on a m16 lower: Do you use them, are they needed in your experience? Any wear to the hammer/trigger pin holes in the lower from extensive full auto use if your not using them? Also, do you shoot 9mm out of the m16's? Any issues you've come across, if so? As for the 9mm M-16's, the armorers go through and make sure the BCG's are thoroughly ramped because if not, they will keep breaking hammer pins. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 1:07:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strangejames:
God bless you, Ron Burgundy. Have you tried chrome silica buffer springs? They supposedly last 500k-750k cycles. They can be found cheap as hell, too. V/R Ron |
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USA
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Posted: 8/1/2017 4:14:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I talked to the guys about this a few weeks ago as I noticed more and more KNS pins on the weapons out on the line. They said that some of the older guns (4-5 years old) have worn pin holes and they needed the KNS pins to keep them running properly. As for the 9mm M-16's, the armorers go through and make sure the BCG's are thoroughly ramped because if not, they will keep breaking hammer pins. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 6:51:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Do you have any FS2000s on the line and if so how have they done?
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Posted: 8/2/2017 12:13:26 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MiG-21:
Do you have any FS2000s on the line and if so how have they done? V/R Ron |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 10:08:33 AM EDT
[#18]
Is there a sub gun or CZ version of this thread? Looking for Scorpion Evo data.
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Posted: 8/2/2017 11:50:27 AM EDT
[#19]
I was out in Vegas last month and got to stop buy and shoot. Man, top notch place. I shot the M249 and M240. Doug was my RO, class act and all business. What kind of round counts do those guns see? Whats the maintenance schedule like? I understand the 240 started out as an OOH, but where did the 249 come from?
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SD, USA
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Posted: 8/2/2017 5:50:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jefflebowski:
Is there a sub gun or CZ version of this thread? Looking for Scorpion Evo data. |
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Posted: 8/3/2017 3:46:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Was not a fan but RUNS like a champ! V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By MiG-21:
Do you have any FS2000s on the line and if so how have they done? V/R Ron |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2017 10:21:31 AM EDT
[#22]
I'm not sure if this has been covered already but has there been any testimony to rather a billet charging handle will last longer than a regular GI style?
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Posted: 8/16/2017 1:29:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Oooh yes. Charging handle data points!
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Posted: 8/16/2017 3:21:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I talked to the guys about this a few weeks ago as I noticed more and more KNS pins on the weapons out on the line. They said that some of the older guns (4-5 years old) have worn pin holes and they needed the KNS pins to keep them running properly. As for the 9mm M-16's, the armorers go through and make sure the BCG's are thoroughly ramped because if not, they will keep breaking hammer pins. V/R Ron |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2017 2:19:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Vinewood]
[#25]
Ron,
I want to thank you for all the info about the endurance of multiple weapon systems. I searched all 29 pages of this post to find info about SIG USA's 556's and the Swiss SG 550/551/552/553. I am heavily invested in the SIG 556 line of pistols, carbines, and DMR'S, and since SIG is not producing them anymore, parts are very hard to get. I want to use your data and knowledge to narrow down the list of parts I need to procure while some can still be had. I won't wear out all my SIG's in my lifetime, but I want to keep them operational and pass them down to my children with spare parts to keep them running for years to come. On page 12 of this post, on 10-3-15 you stated the following about the SIG 556's you were running: "We've lost approximately two recoil/op rod springs per SIG in the last THREE years (as of 01 OCT 12). It's a great weapon in my opinion." And in response to a question about "non wear" parts breaking like takedown/pivot pins, detents etc, you said: "Actually, we have not. They continue to hold up to the abuse but we are surprised to be honest. They are either so tucked away inside or hard to "bang" against that we haven't had any issues to date. " On page 17 of this post, on 3-27-16 you stated the following about the durability of the USA SIG's and their Swiss counterparts: "We have both Swiss and US made variants in use. We have lost op rod springs (both US and Swiss) and a Swiss hammer spring. It took one of the armorers about an hour and half to put the Swiss full-auto lower back together. It's built like a...... Swiss watch" The above information was GREAT, and let me know that the most important thing I could have for each gun is a 556 "parts kits" that includes a recoil spring, pin, and washer to install the recoil spring, a firing pin and firing pin spring, and a couple other small parts. I also found a few hammer springs. Continued. . |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2017 2:22:21 AM EDT
[#26]
I also found the following information from the endurance trials of the SG 550/551 rifles at the following link: Bigger Hammer
2.- Weapon service life 2.1 Service life of individual components The service life or individual components is classified into 4 groups as follows: a) min. 10000 rounds for wearing parts of the bolt assembly b) min. 15000 rounds barrel life c) min. 15000 rounds for all other secondary components d) min. 30000 rounds for major components. 2.2 Extended service life / Functional safety - Experience indicates that depending on the grade of ammunition used, the barrel has to be changed after approx. 20000 up to 30000 rounds have been fired. -15000 rounds for wearing parts of the bolt assembly are quite feasible: other small components will last for anything up to 30000 rounds. -Major components such as trigger housing, bolt, receiver, plastic parts, the main components of the trigger action may readily be expected to withstand 40000 rounds. -We have weapons at our plant which have major components still fully functional after firing 80000 up to 100000 rounds. Continued. . . |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2017 2:24:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Vinewood]
[#27]
The military data, while helpful, is also not very specific, since it is only broken down into bolt, barrel, "major" and "secondary" components.
Your previously posted "real world" experience is what convinced me that I needed at least one "parts kit" for each gun, (recoil spring, firing pin & spring). Ron, I would like to know if you had to replace any other parts since last year on your SIG's, or what in the following list, if any, you would suggest getting as spares: OP Rod, Gas Tube, Gas Valve Bolt, Extractor, Extractor Pin, Extractor Spring Bolt Carrier: (It seems like this may never wear out) Any other lower receiver parts or springs. For the above parts list, one part may be enough for three to five guns if the failure rate of that particular part is low. Lastly, what round count are your SIG's up to now, and have you worn out any barrels yet? Ron, thanks again for all your time and trouble posting all the info you do. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/8/2017 10:02:32 AM EDT
[#28]
Another Question sir
With your background in seeing you were to build your self a AR-15 for home defense, what kind of set up would you use? Any certain parts you would 100% say are needed for absolute reliability? Thanks again! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2017 4:56:47 PM EDT
[#29]
So I guess no news is good news, in reference to the charging handle data points?
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Posted: 10/14/2017 9:18:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Any experience with the Beretta ARX-100?
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Posted: 10/28/2017 8:06:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bigger_Hammer]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Goodelleric:
I'm also interested in the M400's performance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Goodelleric:
Originally Posted By FNBrowning:
YES! The Sig M400 has been available on the sporting good shelves a little over 5 years, and I'd ike to know how they are holding up. Thanks for this incredible thread. The knowledge shared by you & your company firing several lifetimes worth of rounds Vs average ArfCommer is amazing. BIGGER_HAMMER 
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Posted: 11/13/2017 12:20:00 AM EDT
[#32]
It's been covered somewhat and I realize their low usage but what brand 20in uppers and how are they running?
Thanks for all the great info Ron. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 11/16/2017 5:43:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Hey Ron, I know you mentioned previously that parts such as detent springs/pins in the lower receiver have not had to be replaced. Does that still hold true to this day? Thanks!
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Posted: 11/24/2017 1:42:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Nitride barrels, in OUR experience, don't last as long as the chrome-line barrel. I don't want to get deep into but that is OUR experience. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 11/24/2017 7:58:42 PM EDT
[#35]
in.
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Posted: 12/3/2017 5:39:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kikken: Would you be willing to spitball what the difference is? Like, do chrome-lined last around twice as long, or ten percent longer, or ...? V/R Ron |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 9:28:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Have you had any Beretta ARX-100s on the line? If so, how are they working?
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Posted: 12/4/2017 7:23:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
If I had to to choose one over the other (because they aren't a cheap purchase) I would take the AUG. They just go and go. V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By OldArmy:
Sooo I'm not going though this whole thread looking for it, is there any data on the Tavor or AUG? Just curious how a quality 5.56 D.I. 20" AR with proper sized (not over sized) gas port stacks up in terms of parts reliability/service life. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 12/4/2017 9:45:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense: In MY opinion.. I would say twice as long. That's comparing our Colt and Palmetto chrome-lined uppers to others that I don't know who is making them or their spec's because so many parts are contracted out. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 12/4/2017 11:37:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blain: You didn't answer how they compare reliability wise to the 20" AR15? V/R Ron |
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USA
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Posted: 12/5/2017 8:09:03 AM EDT
[#41]
Love this thread, best part is how real usage blows up some oif the marketing nonsense people have fallen for
Curious on the ch data as well but I suspect the regular is just fine |
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Posted: 12/5/2017 11:35:58 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I would still take the AUG over the 20" AR15 if money weren't an issue. V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By Blain: You didn't answer how they compare reliability wise to the 20" AR15? V/R Ron |
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Posted: 12/5/2017 5:53:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By cletussd:
Originally Posted By jefflebowski:
Is there a sub gun or CZ version of this thread? Looking for Scorpion Evo data. |
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Posted: 12/6/2017 12:42:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jefflebowski: No Scorpion Evo data. 
V/R Ron |
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Posted: 12/6/2017 7:27:28 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I am going to give my armorers access to my account so they can update all the threads with the latest info on all other weapons that I promised to provide information on. I wish there were more hours in the day
V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By jefflebowski: No Scorpion Evo data.
V/R Ron |
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USA
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Posted: 12/6/2017 9:23:18 PM EDT
[#46]
The question I really want to ask is how is business going in the wake of the mass-murder earlier this year? Any lashing out against you or any of the other ranges in town?
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Posted: 12/7/2017 4:54:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Is there anyway we could get pictures of some of these well worn firearms? I would love to see what the inside of a barrel/reciever/BCG etc looks like after 100k.
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Posted: 12/7/2017 10:45:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Is there anyway we could get pictures of some of these well worn firearms? I would love to see what the inside of a barrel/reciever/BCG etc looks like after 100k. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2017 9:35:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MS556]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilenceThis:
Yes because soooo many bolt guns are being built with nitride barrels nowadays. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilenceThis:
Originally Posted By MRW:
I would expect chrome lined to last longer than Nitride on a full auto barrel due to chrome's ability to shrug off heat. Yet in my experience, nitride is inherently more accurate than chrome lined because the rifling can be machined with greater precision. I don't have any full auto rifles, and so nitride is fine with me. Back to the point, thanks Ron for confirming that chrome lining is holding up about twice as long as nitride in your experience. Your reluctance to wade into this thorny subject is also appreciated. The typical back yard warrior or weekend range shooter with no FA or burst fire switch and not interested in bump fire or mag dumps will probably never see the extreme conditions your rifles are subjected to. Such lighter use would probably never produce data to support a difference in barrel life. It is reasonable to infer that those who do mag dumps and use bump fire semi auto stocks will benefit from CL barrels, while those placing more emphasis on accuracy might gravitate to more precisely rifled barrels with nitride hardening. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 2:38:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MS556: While this sarcastic post is off topic, it is also based on an implied false fact. Actually world class benchrest barrels in the top levels of competition are now being nitrided to extend barrel life. Those single point cut rifling custom barrels lose their super sub MOA (well below .2 MOA) accuracy very quickly. These single round loaded bolt gun barrels are being nitrided after break in to extend their usable life. One should be careful with facts when using sarcasm. Back to the point, thanks Ron for confirming that chrome lining is holding up about twice as long as nitride in your experience. Your reluctance to wade into this thorny subject is also appreciated. The typical back yard warrior or weekend range shooter with no FA or burst fire switch and not interested in bump fire or mag dumps will probably never see the extreme conditions your rifles are subjected to. Such lighter use would probably never produce data to support a difference in barrel life. It is reasonable to infer that those who do mag dumps and use bump fire semi auto stocks will benefit from CL barrels, while those placing more emphasis on accuracy might gravitate to more precisely rifled barrels with nitride hardening. It is interesting to hear that the CL last ~twice as long though. |
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