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Posted: 11/3/2018 9:19:45 PM EDT
So Ive never noticed any of my other gas tubes getting wear on them. However, on this rifle I noticed an excessive amount of "scratching" on the gas tube. I did send it back to the manufacture after talking with them. They function tested and replaced the gas tube. I ran it through a class with no issue but when I brought it home to clean noticed that the new gas tube again had some unusual wear.

I contacted the manufacture again and they asked for me to send it back (on their dime). I received an email that let me know they removed and replaced the gas key, replaced the upper and again replaced the gas tube. Upon inspection I noticed again an abnormal wear spot. This time I took it to the range and ran a different carrier and didn't notice it making the wear worse but I had only run about 100 rounds through it.

Has anyone seen this before? Is this a long term concern? nothing to worry about? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

https://qq0u.app.link/e/mwGGgQlDyR
Link Posted: 11/3/2018 9:49:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Your pic isn’t showing up.

As for wear, screw it. Shoot the damn thing. You’ll know if something is wrong if something breaks or wears out. 100 rounds isn’t nearly enough rounds to know if there is abnormal wear or not.
Link Posted: 11/3/2018 9:51:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Your pic isn’t showing up.

As for wear, screw it. Shoot the damn thing. You’ll know if something is wrong if something breaks or wears out. 100 rounds isn’t nearly enough rounds to know if there is abnormal wear or not.
View Quote
That's kind of were I am with the whole thing since functionally it's not been an issue and the gun is lights out accurate with no feeding or ejecting problems. Figured I would just see what the masses had to say. Sorry about the pic. New here.....

Fixed the link
Link Posted: 11/3/2018 10:16:59 PM EDT
[#3]
There appears to be a small divot or the like just back from the upper receiver. Honestly I wouldn’t sweat it. It’s not hard or expensive to replace a gas tube if it does turn into something. Highly unlikely it will ever cause an issue though.
Link Posted: 11/4/2018 10:57:19 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 11/4/2018 11:44:31 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/009044644066/media/114160196791/medium/1541294227/enhance

Can't tell if the problem is that the gas tube is not indexed with the carrier key, if there is a problem with a Bur on the entrance of the key at bottom of chamfer that is causing the divot, if the problem happened from a piece of blow primer~flake of brass finding it way between the key and the gas tube isntead, or if the problem is just the key center bore line not on the same plain as the center line of bolt isntead.

Myself since I do have a mill and indicators, would clamp the carrier with key in the mill on Center line of the carriers bolt channel passage, then using a rod, would indicate the center line of carrier key passage.  If the two are way off, easy enough to indicate off the top of the carrier flat for the Key to see if the problem is there, of if the problem is the key passage to it bottom flat off instead.

Problem in the upper carrier flat, B/C goes back for a replacement.  Problem in the key passage to bottom flat not parallel or bur at the entrance of the tube channel, walk in the part to clean that if its not too bad.

Being that the gas key was already replace, would bank that the problem is in the carrier itself, unless they just got a bad batch of keys that  have  the same problems isntead.

P.S. would help to know the manufacturer, since may be one that is just buying defective/import parts that are know problems to start with.
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The picture is of the first time this problem occurred. I’ll upload pictures of the other gas tubes later today since it’s been back from the manufacturer twice now and continues to show the same issue.  Again the manufacturer has been great about checking function etc and it passed all of their tests.so I don’t know if this is just cosmetic and not something to worry about. The rifle has had NO functioning issues and is dead accurate!

This is a BCM rifle and BCG.
Link Posted: 11/4/2018 2:16:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Okay so here is the new gas tube. Again this is after BCM replaced the Upper, Gas tube and Gas Key. I have a new carrier on order (Colt) to see if that halts the wear. To be honest I feel like a pain contacting BCM AGAIN! for a simple gas tube.

Newest gas tube
Link Posted: 11/4/2018 2:44:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 11/4/2018 3:43:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/009044644066/media/114161720743/small/1541355097/enhance

A, Make sure gas tube wiggle in the upper receiver through channel, and not being bound up by the barrel nut channel/spines.

B, Really looks like the center passage for the key is not on center line of the carrier channel.  
As stated, could be the flat on the top of the carrier for the key not square to center line of the carrier, or could be problems in the key milling instead.

Since this is a factory built upper, send it back again to have the problem resolved.

If this is something that you built yourself,  then should have center line barrel socket to center line of gas tube for the upper at .625", and this numbers should match for the key passage to  center line  of carrier ID passage as well.

Hence here for the B/C with it on center line of the carrier bolt passage, we  put a snug straight drill rod into the Key passage to run an indicator down the drill rod to make sure that the key passage in the holding fast at .625" (center line of the drill rod and will slight higher since we are measure the top of drill rod) from the center line of the carrier itself.

From your photo, either receiver is out of spec with the distance to center line not at .625", or problem with the carrier and key center lines not on .625" parallel bored centers isntead.

Fact is with the way the gas tube is begin rubbed, would dare to bank that the key channel passage is cocked upwards to begin with, and a easy fix.  The downside, when you remove the key to address problems with it, you have to use new gas key bolts to reinstall the key again.

And yes, we are well beyond that of a basic parts changer armor talent level at this point; where all the parts are QC'd before hand by someone else, to make sure what they are installing are in spec to begin with.
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Thank you for the detailed feedback. I want to point out a couple of things to ensure we are on the same page.

This upper went back the first time and simply had the gas tube replaced. The second time it went back for the same issue (wear on the gas tube after 300 or so rounds during a class). Upon inspection BCM replaced the upper, the gas tube and the gas key, however it is having the same issue now. My instinct is telling me that it's either the whole bolt carrier, a bad batch of gas keys or could it possibly be out of spec gas tubes that they are installing?

Am I out of line contacting them yet again to correct the issue? Is it even an issue?  I don't want to be "that" guy.
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 2:11:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 3:29:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for the feedback. After talking with another Armor he agrees that the carrier it's self must be out of spec it is the only thing that would make sense. Or BCM has a bad batch of gas keys that are tearing up the gas tubes.

I've reached back out to BCM we will see what they say....
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 10:58:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 11/6/2018 5:48:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Could be upper receiver, with the center line of barrel socket and center line of gas tube channel not .625" as well.
View Quote
No Disrespect here as I know you are the AR God and have learned some things from your posts but sometimes people look at prints wrong. Ive been a machinist for over 32 years and sometimes I still do it.
But.................................
Your looking at the print wrong.
The .625 dimension is center of receiver bore to the bottom flat of the receiver.

Center of Receiver bore to center of gas tube hole is .783 plus or minus .005
Center of carrier bore to center of gas key hole is .781 plus or minus .005

1.408 is the dimension from the center of the gas tube hole to the bottom of the receiver.
1.408 - .625 = .783

Ran into this same problem not long ago with a PSA carrier where the centerline of the key bore to center of carrier bore was .795 and wore out gas tubes no matter how perfect I bent them.
Stood bolt carrier up on end in a vice on my mill and indicated bore centers to find it was out of spec at .795
The bores appeared to be parallel to each other so either the gas key was too tall or the flat to the bore dimension on the carrier was long.
I was just gonna mill .014 from the bottom of the gas key but PSA replaced the BCG.
I now check these dimensions on all my uppers and BCG's before assembly.
Link Posted: 11/6/2018 6:10:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

No Disrespect here as I know you are the AR God and have learned some things from your posts but sometimes people look at prints wrong. Ive been a machinist for over 32 years and sometimes I still do it.
But.................................
Your looking at the print wrong.
The .625 dimension is center of receiver bore to the bottom flat of the receiver.

Center of Receiver bore to center of gas tube hole is .783 plus or minus .005
Center of carrier bore to center of gas key hole is .781 plus or minus .005

1.408 is the dimension from the center of the gas tube hole to the bottom of the receiver.
1.408 - .625 = .783

Ran into this same problem not long ago with a PSA carrier where the centerline of the key bore to center of carrier bore was .795 and wore out gas tubes no matter how perfect I bent them.
Stood bolt carrier up on end in a vice on my mill and indicated bore centers to find it was out of spec at .795
The bores appeared to be parallel to each other so either the gas key was too tall or the flat to the bore dimension on the carrier was long.
I was just gonna mill .014 from the bottom of the gas key but PSA replaced the BCG.
I now check these dimensions on all my uppers and BCG's before assembly.
View Quote
This is great info! BCM has said that they will have two armorers and an engineer looking at the upper. I hope that they are this detailed when reviewing upper. Easy solution. Replaced gas tube and place my bolt in a new carrier. Problem should/hopefully solved.
Link Posted: 11/6/2018 10:05:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 11/12/2018 10:02:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Joe,

We could not find any issues with the BCG or upper receiver. We did replace the BCG and gas tube, but believe the issue is your charging handle making the marks on the gas tube. We sent you a new charging handle to use with the upper receiver group.
After test firing the weapon system, we checked the gas tube and everything appeared to be normal.
Wear, like you are seeing on the gas tube, is normal and will not affect the functionality of the weapon system.

Please let us know if you have any additional questions.

Bravo Company USA, Inc
www.BravoCompanyUSA.com
www.BravoCompanyMFG.com
American Gunfighter


So I'm confused...I told them the wear was present before I even used my charging handle. As in the wear is there when I get it back from them. Second, if the wear is normal why would you replace so much to fix a non issue?
Link Posted: 11/12/2018 5:12:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Okay, I emailed BCM back to get further clarification. According to BCM scratches and wear on your gas tube is 100% natural and a common wear point.

BCM,

First thank you for taking another look at the upper and thank you for replacing the parts as needed/requested. Your support counties to be on point! I look forward to seeing the issue resolved!

Just curious on this one point. All of the BCM uppers I have and all of the other AR’s I own have never seen wear on a gas tube other than the "mushroom" eventually wearing out (I get it’s a replaceable part). Thinking it was me I have asked countless others including local armors and smiths and they all agree that a gas tube should not show wear as evident on this particular upper. The area showing wear  in diameter is smaller than the diameter of the gas key so how and why would it show wear? Those two parts wouldn’t/should touch.  I’m actually looking for education here. I understand wear from possible “shrapnel”etc. but not from the gas key itself and not continued/worsening wear every time I shoot it.  Again just looking to learn.

Best,


Their Response....

Joe,

The area that is showing rub marks is at the very edge of gas key and wear the front of the charging handle sits when completely forward. Since the gas tube is a free floating part it can slightly move and rubs marks may occur.
This area that you are referencing is not a critical dimension of the weapon system and minor rub marks like what you are seeing will not affect the fit or functionality of the weapon system.

Bravo Company USA, Inc
www.BravoCompanyUSA.com
www.BravoCompanyMFG.com
American Gunfighter
Link Posted: 11/12/2018 10:05:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Damn you guys are good. I do see BCM's point. I was wondering earlier if it was nothing more than that (CH).
Link Posted: 11/13/2018 8:17:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Well I received my upper back today. As mentioned BCM included a free charging handle. As you can see from the picture the wear point is already there on the new gas tube.

Maybe BCM is right and this type of wear is completely normal. However none of my other rifles including other BCM's show it. At this point I am actually pretty disappointed because everything I have seen and everyone I have talked with said this isn't normal.
Link Posted: 11/13/2018 11:04:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 11/13/2018 11:23:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Would need upper in hand to mic a few things to figure it out.

Hence on lock up,  gas tube is in the key with it end button baring on the ID of the key channel somewhat, the Front channel of the charging handle is outside the  key, and the Charging handle pulls the carrier back via the front top flat on the carrier in front of the key.  The front of the OD of the key is even reduced so you don't have binding of the front of the key to the ID of the charging handle as the charging handle comes back to grab the top front carrier flat to pull the carrier back.

So for the rubbing to take place on the gas tube by the key (changing handle front channel gets no where near the gas tube), the front of the carrier has to cam upwards, or the back of the carrier downwards during the initial CH pull, for the front of the key channel to get off the axis line of the gas tube to mark the gas tube on the way back.
View Quote
To ensure I understand what you are saying, would changing out the carrier (not the bolt) theoretically stop the wear from happening? If not is it then a different issue and for all instances and purposes is this a matter of over thinking as in will the ever actually cause any real issue?
Link Posted: 11/13/2018 11:38:30 PM EDT
[#21]
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