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Posted: 2/1/2021 3:58:44 PM EDT
So far the solution seems to be one of various extensions that attach to your existing bayonet lug and extend forward. I wrote to two companies that make those adapters and both assured me they were solid and secure, but the concept just seems like a weak point to me. Whereas before you had a solid mount at the flash hider and one at the lug, you're now introducing two hinge points - one behind the bayonet and another where the extension mounts to the lug. There are also clamp-on lugs, but they look pretty ugly to me.
pics courtesy TripleR Products   I have an alternative for you that should be inexpensive and stronger. I was bored and looking for a project using the endless extra parts I have accumulated and came up with this, attached to the middle rifle below.  I took an old A2 FSB that I paid $25 for and ground off everything except the lug and the barrel band above it. I then drilled out the pin hole and tapped it for two small set screws (44 cents from Ace). Some rattlecan finish and it's done. Now the rigid mount for the bayonet is back, no hinge points. It just so happens that if you mount it right where the barrel starts to taper down, the bayonet will be perfectly positioned. I don't know if this is offered by any company. I know the two I approached with the idea were happy with what they already had on the market. |
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Posted: 2/1/2021 4:15:56 PM EDT
[#1]
LOL, the middle picture is mine. Is Triple R using it now?
and I did the cut down FSB too.  |
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Posted: 2/1/2021 4:26:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/5205/28B777F7-D4A0-45A7-9673-563840DBD911-1381092.jpgLOL, the middle picture is mine. Is Triple R using it now? and I did the cut down FSB too. Ha! I guess they are using your pic...the pic had their link on it. You did a great job on yours. I had thought about drilling another hole, but maybe at the bottom, but once I did the two at the pin holes, it was TIGHT. |
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Posted: 2/1/2021 5:08:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha! I guess they are using your pic...the pic had their link on it. You did a great job on yours. I had thought about drilling another hole, but maybe at the bottom, but once I did the two at the pin holes, it was TIGHT. That picture was part of an article I wrote at the New Rifleman https://thenewrifleman.com/your-rifle-needs-a-bayonet/ Triple R now offers a split ring clamp on barrel mount, which might be the better way all around. |
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Posted: 2/1/2021 6:11:59 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't like the look of the split ring types. Doesn't look right to me.
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Posted: 2/1/2021 7:41:25 PM EDT
[#5]
I once heard a Army 1st Infantry combat vet who did multiple tours in Afghanistan and Iraq in the Sand Wars talking to a young guy in the gun store the vet worked at.
The kid asked if he had a good way to mount a bayonet on a M4. The retired soldier replied........... "I have a 30 round magazine in my rifle and plenty of spares. Mister, I don't don't want to STICK someone at close range, I'm looking to SHOOT them before they get close". |
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Posted: 2/1/2021 7:58:15 PM EDT
[#6]
silly soldier
a sharp point on the end of a stick is psychologically effective because everyone has been cut or stuck before not everyone has been shot, |
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Posted: 2/1/2021 8:48:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Looks like it would be a good & rigid way to mount the bayonet.
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Posted: 2/1/2021 10:38:51 PM EDT
[#8]
I don't trust the clamp-on style lugs to stay in place securely if you actually had to use the bayonet, and they tend to be rather unsightly, too, being rather bulky for what they are.
The set screw option looks much better, but I'm still not sure I trust the set screw to handle the impact that can come with using the bayonet. The path I went was to harvest the bayonet lug and ring above it from a FSB like you guys did, but have it drilled and taper-pinned to the barrel just like a FSB. I did this so I could have a bayonet lug on a build without a FSB and using a free-float handguard. It's 16" mid-length, so if it had a FSB, it wouldn't have the issues the carbine-length 16" barrels have. But in its configuration, a standalone lug is required. No one seems to make standalone lugs that can be attached this way for individual sale, only for use on certain complete rifles they sell (LMT, for example, on their NZ rifles, or the HK-416F). It'd be nice if someone did, but with the trend favoring rails that extend well past the gas block journal, and also disfavoring 16" carbine-length barrels, the demand likely isn't there. Then again, clamp-on ones are made, and I'm not sure that it would truly be that much harder to make something like this instead, in 0.625" and 0.75", at least. This is how mine looks:  
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Posted: 2/1/2021 10:52:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Properly done.
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Posted: 2/1/2021 11:03:39 PM EDT
[#10]
 JT can do it! |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 11:06:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't trust the clamp-on style lugs to stay in place securely if you actually had to use the bayonet, and they tend to be rather unsightly, too, being rather bulky for what they are. The set screw option looks much better, but I'm still not sure I trust the set screw to handle the impact that can come with using the bayonet. The path I went was to harvest the bayonet lug and ring above it from a FSB like you guys did, but have it drilled and taper-pinned to the barrel just like a FSB. I did this so I could have a bayonet lug on a build without a FSB and using a free-float handguard. It's 16" mid-length, so if it had a FSB, it wouldn't have the issues the carbine-length 16" barrels have. But in its configuration, a standalone lug is required. No one seems to make standalone lugs that can be attached this way for individual sale, only for use on certain complete rifles they sell (LMT, for example, on their NZ rifles, or the HK-416F). It'd be nice if someone did, but with the trend favoring rails that extend well past the gas block journal, and also disfavoring 16" carbine-length barrels, the demand likely isn't there. Then again, clamp-on ones are made, and I'm not sure that it would truly be that much harder to make something like this instead, in 0.625" and 0.75", at least. This is how mine looks: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49763360632_524cba1cbc_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50869328827_603853b4f5_b.jpg Great job!!! I would prefer the pinned and taper pin method also. I have thought about doing the same thing with a rifle that has a 16" carbine gas heavy barrel. The problem is the barrel steps down to 0.725" diameter in front of the sight base. Most M4 and heavy barrels do. Pencil barrels step down to about 0.610-0.615" diameter. So, you couldn't use standard base journal sizes like you suggest. (Yes, you could bore out the pencil's 0.625 to fit the M4 barrel) There is a company that makes one piece stand alone bayonet lugs ( Edit: It's Dinzag Arms. Here They make adaptors to fit M7 & M9 bayonets on Aks and Saigas. Why??? But, you can specify the ID. Also, not cheap. |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 5:59:29 PM EDT
[#12]
I thought about doing a taper pin as well, but I wanted something I could remove if I later decided my "mod" looked stupid. A taper pin would have left a permanent groove/hole in the barrel and I didn't want to risk it. The set screws are pretty solid, but unless I stick a fat liberal, I may never find out how truly strong it is. Right now, adding a lug by using an old FSB and securing it with set screws or a pin is a simple, inexpensive solution to a common problem.
Here's a closeup of my setup.  If I had my own shop, I'd make one of these with the lug under a shroud - the same diameter as the barrel - that would extend back to the front sight. I think that would give it a cleaner appearance and survive any impact. I'd also offer a replacement FSB where the shroud and new lug are part of the assembly. Forgive my poor graphics capabilities, but you get the idea. Modified FSB on the left and shroud with FSB that can be added. 
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Posted: 2/2/2021 11:15:30 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 2/2/2021 11:40:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Shut up and take my money?
Where to purchase such a thing? It will adapt a 16" with carbine gas to a bayonet? and a sideways blade is best because it will go between the ribs |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 11:51:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shut up and take my money? Where to purchase such a thing? It will adapt a 16" with carbine gas to a bayonet? and a sideways blade is best because it will go between the ribs Don't you just turn the rifle sideways? Only a handful of service rifles have ever mounted the bayonet on the side. |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 11:59:58 PM EDT
[#16]
There is also that Tacticool22 muzzle sleeve adapter, disadvantage that the blade is not extended as far.
 And those extended handle bayonets that were always way too expensive. |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 12:04:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Are there any bayonet options that extend beyond a suppressor? My guess would be no but it doesn't hurt to ask.
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Posted: 2/3/2021 12:27:21 AM EDT
[#18]
I figured the people fixated on bayonet usage but unable to mount one to their rifles was the reason for this
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Posted: 2/3/2021 1:39:57 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't you just turn the rifle sideways? Only a handful of service rifles have ever mounted the bayonet on the side. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Shut up and take my money? Where to purchase such a thing? It will adapt a 16" with carbine gas to a bayonet? and a sideways blade is best because it will go between the ribs Don't you just turn the rifle sideways? Only a handful of service rifles have ever mounted the bayonet on the side. Side mounting has only been done to clear something under the barrel, like a ramrod or, in the case of New Zealand's rifles, a grenade launcher. Also has been done for folding bayonets where the stock design does not permit it to fold underneath the rifle. Otherwise, knife and sword bayonets are generally mounted underneath. ETA: Here's NZ's side-mounted lug. 
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Posted: 2/3/2021 1:42:01 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought about doing a taper pin as well, but I wanted something I could remove if I later decided my "mod" looked stupid. A taper pin would have left a permanent groove/hole in the barrel and I didn't want to risk it. The set screws are pretty solid, but unless I stick a fat liberal, I may never find out how truly strong it is. Right now, adding a lug by using an old FSB and securing it with set screws or a pin is a simple, inexpensive solution to a common problem. Here's a closeup of my setup. https://i.imgur.com/ScuP7pH.jpg If I had my own shop, I'd make one of these with the lug under a shroud - the same diameter as the barrel - that would extend back to the front sight. I think that would give it a cleaner appearance and survive any impact. I'd also offer a replacement FSB where the shroud and new lug are part of the assembly. Forgive my poor graphics capabilities, but you get the idea. Modified FSB on the left and shroud with FSB that can be added. https://i.imgur.com/q6kz8I6.jpg Might be easier to just have the lug installed separately in advance of the FSB, and use a no-lug FSB behind it. Probably a cleaner look, too, although your idea is interesting (and better than some of the adaptations that have come out). |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 1:46:10 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great job!!! I would prefer the pinned and taper pin method also. I have thought about doing the same thing with a rifle that has a 16" carbine gas heavy barrel. The problem is the barrel steps down to 0.725" diameter in front of the sight base. Most M4 and heavy barrels do. Pencil barrels step down to about 0.610-0.615" diameter. So, you couldn't use standard base journal sizes like you suggest. (Yes, you could bore out the pencil's 0.625 to fit the M4 barrel) There is a company that makes one piece stand alone bayonet lugs ( Edit: It's Dinzag Arms. Here They make adaptors to fit M7 & M9 bayonets on Aks and Saigas. Why??? But, you can specify the ID. Also, not cheap. ADCO did the work. Those lugs look like they don't have enough meat for pinning if desired. I get that the barrel sizes can differ. At least for heavier profile barrels, using a 0.625" one and having it opened up to fit on a larger barrel seems like a possible solution. Wouldn't work for a lightweight profile, or something even lighter up front like the Gunner profile Faxon uses (I think it goes down to 0.55" diameter). One company makes 3D-printed pinnable metal lugs for the Mini-14 that might work with some ARs, in 0.625" and some smaller size (for the older, skinnier Mini-14 barrels). Cogburn Arsenal, IIRC. |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 1:48:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are there any bayonet options that extend beyond a suppressor? My guess would be no but it doesn't hurt to ask. Geissele made something that could work if you have a longer handguard combined with a short can and a long blade. |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 2:26:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't trust the clamp-on style lugs to stay in place securely if you actually had to use the bayonet, and they tend to be rather unsightly, too, being rather bulky for what they are. The set screw option looks much better, but I'm still not sure I trust the set screw to handle the impact that can come with using the bayonet. The path I went was to harvest the bayonet lug and ring above it from a FSB like you guys did, but have it drilled and taper-pinned to the barrel just like a FSB. I did this so I could have a bayonet lug on a build without a FSB and using a free-float handguard. It's 16" mid-length, so if it had a FSB, it wouldn't have the issues the carbine-length 16" barrels have. But in its configuration, a standalone lug is required. No one seems to make standalone lugs that can be attached this way for individual sale, only for use on certain complete rifles they sell (LMT, for example, on their NZ rifles, or the HK-416F). It'd be nice if someone did, but with the trend favoring rails that extend well past the gas block journal, and also disfavoring 16" carbine-length barrels, the demand likely isn't there. Then again, clamp-on ones are made, and I'm not sure that it would truly be that much harder to make something like this instead, in 0.625" and 0.75", at least. This is how mine looks: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49763360632_524cba1cbc_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50869328827_603853b4f5_b.jpg Random aside, but what is with the 'claw' looking doodad on facing rearward from your flash hider? |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 3:58:07 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Random aside, but what is with the 'claw' looking doodad on facing rearward from your flash hider? Colt rifle grenade retainer spring. |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 10:13:11 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are there any bayonet options that extend beyond a suppressor? My guess would be no but it doesn't hurt to ask. A custom mount is needed to fit the Chassepot bayonet, but it can be done. |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 10:16:26 AM EDT
[#26]
Anyone else ever wondered how much the handguards reinforced the assembly to add rigidity? Talking about A1 & A2 handguards.
Seems without them the barrel would flex a lot more on a slash, but maybe that's just to me? |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 10:32:53 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone else ever wondered how much the handguards reinforced the assembly to add rigidity? Talking about A1 & A2 handguards. Seems without them the barrel would flex a lot more on a slash, but maybe that's just to me? A1s broke so many handguards in going prone there is a distinct lack of right (IIRC) handguards on the market. Basic training sites saw bent bbls on A1s that were repeatedly used for bayonet practice. A2s went to a top & bottom interchangeable handguard and a heavier bbl. |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 6:21:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Colt rifle grenade retainer spring. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Random aside, but what is with the 'claw' looking doodad on facing rearward from your flash hider? Colt rifle grenade retainer spring.  neat. I've never seen that before.
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Posted: 2/3/2021 7:35:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is also that Tacticool22 muzzle sleeve adapter, disadvantage that the blade is not extended as far. https://www.tacticool22.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Bayonet-Barrel-Adapter_1.jpg And those extended handle bayonets that were always way too expensive. A usmc Okc3s would help in this case  |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 8:41:45 PM EDT
[#30]
I have a bayonet and zero rifles I can put it on.
 I should  get a G super stabby thingy.
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Posted: 2/3/2021 9:07:12 PM EDT
[#31]
I have a CETME bayonet in perfect condition and no CETME to put it on as well. I also have a lot of AK bayonets, but not enough AKs to put them on.
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Posted: 2/3/2021 9:12:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a CETME bayonet in perfect condition and no CETME to put it on as well. I also have a lot of AK bayonets, but not enough AKs to put them on. I have an Arisaka bayonet, but no Arisaka rifle. It was my grandfather's uncle's. He used to carry it around for self-defense after buying it at a swap meet, even though bayonets are totally banned for civilian use in Mexico. Still sharp as heck. I use my CETME bayonet on my FR-8. |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 12:11:30 AM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 2/4/2021 12:50:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Ah, hence the questions about buttstocks. Can you weld? A 1" steel tube welded into a Flat Spot steel lower would add some strength.
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