I know fmj 5.56/.223 ammo will fragment within a certain distance of being fired, which provides terminal ballistics to end a threat. Soft point ammo is designed to expand, of course. If a person can choose between an inexpensive soft point ammo like Frontier spire point ammo below linked below, or another inexpensive soft point like PPU or Sellier & Bellot, is a person better off with such soft point ammo over fmj assuming shots are fired within close enough range that the fmj fragments?

Soft point ammo mentioned above is obviously better at distances that are too long for fmj ammo to fragment. Part of my motivation in asking the above question is for stocking up on ammo for SHTF scenarios, albeit I know such scenarios are unlikely.

https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/500-round-case-556-nato-62-grain-spirepoint-soft-point-hornady-frontier-ammo-

M193 is much cheaper and pretty dang effective when people get shot by it.

Wolf. Deep and cheap

223 sp is extremely effective.  It's what's in my HD mags actually.

The expensive stuff certainly is. I'm wondering about the inexpensive stuff compared to fmj.

I'm talking about the inexpensive stuff.

I reload 55gr SP to about 2900 FPS, and think it will do OK.

I think the answer varies bullet to bullet. Their are quite a few different designs, some are designed for small varmints and probably aren't the best choice for humans.

I’ve changed the way I think based on the devastation predator ammo creates when used on foxes, coyotes and other critters, even out of 10.5” and 11.5” barrels.

Might have to try some really light prairie dog bullets just to compare.

Thank you for clarifying.

I thought it was hollow points that are for small varmints rather than soft points.

OP, if you are wanting expansion, the cheapest and best ,in my opinion, are Gold Dots

What are the chances you'll need to defeat an enemy beyond the effective range of M193?

Terminally, non-bonded light or medium weight soft point may not consistently penetrate 12+". Doesn't make it useless, but it's a mark against their performance considering M193 practically always does reach the 12" mark.

FMJ of the same price may also have better QC or overall quality, so I'd usually go with it.

Barnaul (wolf, sgammo, herters, monarch, ect) 55gr or 62gr soft point can be had for 5 cents or so less than even Wolf Gold and does expand even out of short barrels.  Stack it deep and it's cheap enough to even be used for training.  :P

Silver Bear 62gr SPs are my loaner loads for night hunting when I loan out my spare thermal scoped 10.5” SBR. They are surprisingly accurate and provide reliable terminal performance. No function issues either.

I use 62gr Fusion for larger critters, including hogs, and 50gr VMax for predators. I wouldn’t sweat it if I had a magazine of VMaxes and needed to stop an intruder. But I’d rather have a magazine full of Fusions or Silver Bear.

Yes. If you go on YT and watch a bunch of gel test videos, generally speaking, SP always does better than FMJ. A lot of times FMJ will yaw and exit the gel block. Depending on barrel length, FMJ may not fragment. Check out the video below of a gel test with the Frontier 62gr SP from a 10.5" barrel. It does very well.

https://youtu.be/mlhM0QealJY

Here's another video listing the top 5 defensive loads.

https://youtu.be/jYISspjR9ps

FMJ's feed better in certain guns. Soft points will preform better on targets. I'd go soft point if reliability isn't a problem.

I forgot to mention the Bear ammos in my break down.  Barnual manufactures those as well.  Silver Bear, Brown Bear and all the other Barnaul ammo should perform pretty similarly.  I used to stock mostly their 62gr SP but moved to 55gr SP recently after the ammo I sent to The Chopping Block got tested and the 55gr seemed to do better on penetration.

Brass cased copper jacketed ammo...any make or model is fine for training ammo.

No steel in ARs unless you like throat erosion.

Molon did a test on it back when.

Any thoughts on that Norma fmj stuff compared to Wolf Gold?

Given the price of barrels and the price of steel ammunition, most bulk training is going to be cheaper shooting steel and replacing barrels when accuracy becomes unacceptable.

You have a good point there.

I’m debating myself regularly on time management for training. Everything eats time...organising gear, ammo types, targetry, batteries, kit...it’s all competing for my time.  It ends with little actual range time bc I’m constantly working on guns, ammo, or gear.

I need simple.

I need one or two types of ammo total...so I don’t have to constantly zero.

I need fewer rifles and to not swap setups.

I have a beater AR I run tons of wolf through...but it is a 4moa gun.  I think it’s time to trash it.

Thanks. I just watched the videos.

OP, I prefer the Frontier FR280 you reference

Very true; especially with steel jackets.

I am aware that Barnaul manufactures Silver Bear, that’s why I picked up the baton.

I bought the 62gr Silver Bear because I was sick and tired of doing a guy a favor by loaning him a thermal scoped rifle and then having him shoot $20 or $40 of my premier ammo. So I had the Silver Bear for range use and thought “wtf, it’s loaner ammo.” Then was surprised by the accuracy when sighting in for it and further surprised by the effectiveness. I live the stuff.

The soft point light weight varmint bullets can be pushed very fast.

I wouldn't try the thin jacketed versions (meant for the older 22 hornets, etc) in a 1 turn in 9" or faster barrel.

I used to use the Hornady and Sierra 45 grain spitzer flat based bullets for ground hogs and crows.  Never shot anything bigger with them.  I think (in those days) Hornady called their thin jacketed bullets SX and Sierra called their Blitz.

I shot then in my M700 VS with a 24" barrel and 1 turn in 12" rifling.  Great accuracy, reloading manual velocity was nearly 3,600 fps.  I shot part of a box of them through my Ruger Mini 14 one day and we could see a "vapor trail" off the bullet shortly after it left the muzzle and some of them didn't make it all the way to the paper (100 yds.) before they blew up.  The vapor trail would stop and you'd be short one hole for the group.

Effects on the crows was just a puff of feathers and misty looking spray you could see the sunlight glint off of when the bullet impacted.  None blown in half, etc.  Just dead.

Effects on ground hogs was always terminal (all head shots those two years except for one).  Bullets do weird shit.  No shots past 225 yds.

No blown off heads.  Missing parts of the head?  Sure.  Shot two in the back of the head (standing up looking away from me).  No eyes, not lower jaw, no upper snout, teeth, etc.  Just a bloody red hole where the face had been.  Interesting thing was I missed the brain both times as the bullet it just to the left/right of the spine below the brain.  Both rain for 8 or 10 feet (in the direction they'd been looking) before they stopped, dead.  Looked like someone used a 4" wide paint brush to paint a bloody trail in the grass from where they where hit to where they stopped.

Hit one in the neck.  Picked him up, no exit wound.  Weird.  Bullet had turned 90 degrees and traveled down the spine just on top of the ribs on the left side.  Gutted him, cut his head off and found the muscles blown away from the ribs (looked like a piece of pita bread cut open) almost to his hips.  The bullet was lying in the bottom of the "hole" and I turned him up and the bullet fell out into my hand.

Had one just barely sticking his head out of a hole one day.  Crawled for a ways, got as close as I figured I could (65/70 yds.) and took the shot.  The bullet hit, the ground hog disappeared.  It was lying down in the hole where it turned to the side.  Pulled it out.  No nose, missing part of the lower jaw and while the eye sockets were partially there, the eyes were got.  Weird looking thing, but dead right there.

The one I didn't head shoot was hit right under the left front leg as it was standing up facing to my left.  The whole front of the ground hog was wasted.  The right leg/shoulder was mostly gone, left leg/shoulder was all busted up, too.  Bone slivers every where.  Cut him off just below the ribs and left the remains of the front end by the fence.  Worst looking wound of any of the groundhogs I killed over the years.

I have no idea of penetration on bigger animals.  I expect a big nasty hole a few inches into the meat/bone.  If a bone was hit the bone fragments would be blown all through the surrounding tissue/organs.

Up to now the ARs have only had Hornaday 55 grain FMJ, but I've been thinking the next 6,000 bullet box could be the Hornady 55 grain soft points.  Got a few carbines these days.  Hardly shoot the 20's any more.

Hornady 55sp is my stack deep bullet. It's done well for me on critters

I can buy 3 to 5 barrels a year with the money I save.  By the time I've shot the barrel out (it's not as fast as the lucky gunner test since I'm not doing a series of mag dumps) I've saved enough money to buy a bucket of barrels.

Once past the range at which M193 fragments, soft points are superior.

Which of the cheap Hornady sp is the one you are citing?

My preferred LGS has been selling it at 500rds for $150 which I've bought a couple of. Feeds well, clean, about the same accuracy. Granted, I only have access to 25 yards indoors so take that for what it is. But I would have no issues stacking more of it.

Although at close range the terminal effects of M193 cannot be denied, those of us not bound by the international laws governing armed conflict are foolish to use FMJ ammunition for serious defensive purposes when softpoint ammunition of nearly the same cost is available so readily.

Given that Speer Gold Dots can be had for 55-60 cents a round there is no reason to rely on FMJ unless it’s all you have. There are too many good options to rely on ball which is inconsistent and doesn’t always fragment.

Amazing what velocity will do. Massive transfer of energy whether you’re talking fmj or sp.

Soft point ammo that is nearly the same cost isn't as accurate as fmj, is it?

sp ammo can be more accurate than FMJ all is gun dependant

my opinion, if you can get soft point ammo as cheap or cheaper than FMJ, go for it. You then have options.

Hornady 55 Grain SP is also my go to round for almost everything these days. It's cheap, performs well on game, is accurate, etc.

I'm handloading these, so I'm not talking factory ammo, but in general, I get much better accuracy from the Hornady 55 Grain SP than I do from any FMJ bullet.

I've almost always found SP and JHP Bullets to be more accurate than FMJ bullets in long guns.

Oh yes!

Hornady 55gr Softpoints are extremely accurate for their price!

They outperform almost all FMJ's in the accuracy and terminal effect categories.

I have shot one hole groups with them at 100 yards out of my bolt action rifle and had about a 1.5 inch group with a red dot at 100 yards from a carbine.

I've never tried this Fed 55 gr Power Shok, but it's cheap at $7.99/bx, free shipping if you buy 10 boxes.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/federal-223-55gr-soft-point-fed-223a.html

I can get Frontier 62 gr SP in 5.56 shipped for 34 cpr. I know it does well in a 10.5" barrel. I'll take that over the Federal 55 gr Power Shok in .223 at 40 cpr any day.

https://www.wbarmory.com/product/frontier-cartridge-fr280-rifle-5-56-nato-62-gr-spire-point-sp-20-bx-25-cs/