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Posted: 1/10/2021 2:26:36 PM EDT
After failing to fix the issue with my 22 nosler in the thread HERE i built up my other 22 nosler with the same Mega MML Upper assembly, SLR adjustable gas block, 20" Wilson Combat barrel, and AIM BCG.
Zeroed yesterday with appx 20 rounds, zero malfunctions. Locked back on last round every time (at least 8 times). Hunted yesterday and had the following malfunction on back to back hunts; i even tried a different mag the second hunt just for the hell of it and the malfunction was identical. The spent casing is caught but the next round is partially chambered. After the two malfunctions i purposely did the next sit with my dust cover open and fired 5 rounds with zero issues. I also opened the gas block 3 clicks Im lost; in 30 rounds yesterday i had 2 malfunctions in back to back sits with different mags. We have tried everything and the only thing i can figure at this point is it is somehow related to the Mega MML upper or dust cover. |
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Looks like a weak extraction that may be slipping past the extractor possibly to a tight chamber . Try the BCM Spring and O ring upgrade.
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Quoted: Looks like a weak extraction that may be slipping past the extractor possibly to a tight chamber . Try the BCM Spring and O ring upgrade. View Quote I used this bcg on a 22 nosler build (the build in the other thread) all coyote season last year with zero issues. The only change was going from a rainier billet upper and geissele handguard to the mega MML upper. This is a different barrel but the issues were a nightmare on the ballistic advantage barrel with the same bcg that worked great last year. |
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Either short stroking due to gas problem, binding, rough or fouled chamber, ammo load problems, etc.
The extractor not hanging onto the spent case during the pull or ejector binding up in the bolt face channel. Or bolt face retracting back past the back of ejection port rear edge on stroke, with the spent casing hitting the back ejection port edge to defect the spent case back into the action. |
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Weak or sticky ejector spring or rough extractor holding on to the rim?
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Do you have a decent phone camera? What I did to diagnose an issue I was having when the lock-back test failed me was to shoot it off a bench with my camera in slow-mo mode. Then you can go back and get a good idea of whats happening (bolting coming back far enough, feeding, etc). The trick is to get the angle right, want the camera far enough forward to see the bolt catch, but not too far so you fail to see the majority of the chamber.
Also, I had this same issue when my 10.5 was severely over gassed. THe BCG was coming back so fast it wouldn't fling out the spent case, and instead just pulled it out of the chamber and left it rattling around on top of the fresh round. BCG comes forward and they get pinched together. I was able to see this using the method above. |
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Quoted: Do you have a decent phone camera? What I did to diagnose an issue I was having when the lock-back test failed me was to shoot it off a bench with my camera in slow-mo mode. Then you can go back and get a good idea of whats happening (bolting coming back far enough, feeding, etc). The trick is to get the angle right, want the camera far enough forward to see the bolt catch, but not too far so you fail to see the majority of the chamber. Also, I had this same issue when my 10.5 was severely over gassed. THe BCG was coming back so fast it wouldn't fling out the spent case, and instead just pulled it out of the chamber and left it rattling around on top of the fresh round. BCG comes forward and they get pinched together. I was able to see this using the method above. View Quote Follow up question: What's your normal ejection pattern? |
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Quoted: Follow up question: What's your normal ejection pattern? View Quote I have planned to do the camera slow mo trial but haven't accomplished it yet. So far in the last 2 weeks i've shot about 12 rounds without an issue (upgraded to an HD extractor spring on the current bcg). The weather is less than ideal for a range session and my 22 nosler ammo isn't what i want it to be. Our coyote season goes until march 15th and thats this guns only purpose. My plan is to run it as is with out doing any modifications right now and if i have a failure; drop in a new bcg. I get consistent, 4:00 ejection |
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Factory Ammo ? .. or your reloads ?
Can you post pics of the fired cases ?.. looking for scuffs, scratches, or even odd marks on your cases necks. |
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How long is your buffer? If you okay rod down the barrel and push the bolt all the way back to its farthest rearward travel how far back past the end of the ejection port does the bolt face end up?
The reason I was asking is because I've had similar problems that were in my case cured by a longer buffer. And my gun I was using the heaviest buffer I could get my hands on but it just so happened to be a carbine length. When I switched to a rifle length buffer my problems completely went away. I don't suppose we're lucky enough to have this be your exact problem but I would look very closely at your buffer and spring. |
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Quoted: How long is your buffer? If you okay rod down the barrel and push the bolt all the way back to its farthest rearward travel how far back past the end of the ejection port does the bolt face end up? View Quote Just pulling the charging handle all the way back, does the same thing, without having to drive anything down the barrel in the wrong direction. Hence on full charging handle pull on a 223 rig, face of bolt should stop 1/8"~1/4" in front of the back edge of the ejection port window. If the face of the bolt is even with the back edge of the window, then under self cycling recoil/buffer bumper compression, then face of bolt will be behind the back edge. Here with the bolt retracting too far back, as the spent case if begin pivoted off the bolt face at rear stroke stall, spent case will tag the back ejection window edge on the pivot off the bolt. |
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Quoted: Factory Ammo ? .. or your reloads ? Can you post pics of the fired cases ?.. looking for scuffs, scratches, or even odd marks on your cases necks. View Quote Ditto here on photo's of the spent case, including the area where the extractor was pulling on the rim, since the later will show if the extractor is being pulled off the rim of the spent case and the problem at hand. Also, photo of the spent primer, since 22N chamber can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and what may run fine in one barrel, may have problems in other barrel that its chamber/leade is tighter instead (even with factory ammo). |
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Yeah we've done most of that in this thread or the other.
Bolt is visible in the port door by about a 1/4". standard carbine buffer (have tried other buffers). I dont have pics of my recent brass but it has all looked pretty good aside from a small mark from the ejector. No marks or issues with recent brass in regards to ejections, etc. Factory loads only; two different loads. Right now i'm still monitoring this issue but things have been working after adding the HD extractor kit (granted the sample size is low; appx 14 rounds over 3 weeks) ***one thing to note is that most of the hunting season i've been leaving my gun loaded between places we hunt so there are times where the round fired has been in the chamber for 3-4 hours in 20 degree weather. While odd; it is a possible difference vs last year when i had no issues. I've gone back to unloading the gun after every sit and thus far, no issues. So to summarize. It's been 3 weeks, several hunts, and appx 14 rounds without any malfunctions and the only changes have been the HD extractor kit and unloading after every sit. |
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Quoted: Just a recent update: Went out hunting last night but did not pull the trigger. It was -2 to -7 without the windchill and multiple times i had issues extracting the live round at the end of each hunt. This has not happened before; it has always been spent casing issues but these were live rounds that were in the chamber for 40-6 minutes. Said rounds: https://i.imgur.com/jOvsYwU.jpg @megasexual Do you have any recent casings of mine that you could post up some pics? View Quote EDIT.. I am reading your other thread... so some of my below comments are redundant. IMO, those cases are far more scuffed up then I would expect from chambering and un-chambering. Are you letting the bolt chamber from the bolt release ? ... or racking the Charging handle ? ... or by chance riding the charging handle while chambering ?..... not judging, just trying to figure out the scratches. Some of the things I see are The large horizontal scraps... sharp edge at the end of the chamber ? The chatter marks at the shoulder... ... another sharp enough edge to cause the marks. The length wise marks are most likely from the magazine feed lips. The little various dings around the shoulder end of the case body, are probably from the locking lug at ejection port side. The reason I asked about fired case pics, was because the neck on your fired / FTEject cases looked like they are a snug fit.. Another thing to check... is the extractor claw... make sure the ends are rounded off, which allows for easy roll off of the case. I wish I remembered whose photo this is... they deserve all credit for it. |
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Quoted: EDIT.. I am reading your other thread... so some of my below comments are redundant. IMO, those cases are far more scuffed up then I would expect from chambering and un-chambering. Are you letting the bolt chamber from the bolt release ? ... or racking the Charging handle ? ... or by chance riding the charging handle while chambering ?..... not judging, just trying to figure out the scratches. Some of the things I see are The large horizontal scraps... sharp edge at the end of the chamber ? The chatter marks at the shoulder... ... another sharp enough edge to cause the marks. The length wise marks are most likely from the magazine feed lips. The little various dings around the shoulder end of the case body, are probably from the locking lug at ejection port side. The reason I asked about fired case pics, was because the neck on your fired / FTEject cases looked like they are a snug fit.. Another thing to check... is the extractor claw... make sure the ends are rounded off, which allows for easy roll off of the case. I wish I remembered whose photo this is... they deserve all credit for it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/171545/__________________________________________SuWHaxU-912480.jpg View Quote Thanks for you input. I wish this was simple but the other thread was my 22 nosler BA barrel with the AIM TiN bcg (it was run all last winter without a single issue). When rebuilt (different upper/handguard) this year i started having issues even though the bcg/barrel were the same and unaltered. This thread is with the same bcg but with a new WC 22 Nosler barrel but issues still exist. When i chamber a round i insert the mag and pull the charging handle all the way back and release or use the bolt release; no riding the charging handle. Those unfired rounds pictured are from this weekend only when it was -10 degrees out and i had issue removing the live round after each hunt (this is a completely new issue and has never presented before). Long story short, this bcg worked flawlessly for a 4 month coyote season last year with the BA 22 Nosler barrel so i can not grasp how it is a bcg issue. I will try to get some more pics tonight; my buddy has the spent brass from the last couple weeks and should chime in later. |
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I really don’t know the AR very well, but it looks like the next round is being pushed from the rear by the bolt. It does not appear that the bolt is riding over the top of the round. So what I’m seeing is proper extraction, enough rearward travel to allow the next round to rise, and the bolt pushing forward. What I’m not seeing is proper ejection. I’m used to AK-style fixed ejectors so I don’t know enough about ARs to be helpful. But I’m not necessarily seeing short stroking or under gassed, etc.
Whether this is ejector, too strong of an extractor, brass that’s somehow sized wrong at the base, I dunno. But it looks to me like the fired case is only being knocked out of the boltface by the next live round trying to take its place. It is odd you are getting extraction difficulties now as well. |
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Quoted: I really don’t know the AR very well, but it looks like the next round is being pushed from the rear by the bolt. It does not appear that the bolt is riding over the top of the round. So what I’m seeing is proper extraction, enough rearward travel to allow the next round to rise, and the bolt pushing forward. What I’m not seeing is proper ejection. I’m used to AK-style fixed ejectors so I don’t know enough about ARs to be helpful. But I’m not necessarily seeing short stroking or under gassed, etc. Whether this is ejector, too strong of an extractor, brass that’s somehow sized wrong at the base, I dunno. But it looks to me like the fired case is only being knocked out of the boltface by the next live round trying to take its place. It is odd you are getting extraction difficulties now as well. View Quote I have/had the same logic on all of this and agree. I can see -10 degree weather and leaving the gun outside for 6 hours potentially causing difficult in extraction |
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Quoted: Not seeing it myself, since have hunted in a lot colder, for a lot longer, and CLP cleaned and lubed rigs will not have problems. View Quote Any thoughts why extraction would be an issues starting saturday night? I haven't had the gun fail to remove a live round until then. Again, this is the same bcg that functioned flawlessly for 3 months last winter. |
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Quoted: I used this bcg on a 22 nosler build (the build in the other thread) all coyote season last year with zero issues. The only change was going from a rainier billet upper and geissele handguard to the mega MML upper. This is a different barrel but the issues were a nightmare on the ballistic advantage barrel with the same bcg that worked great last year. View Quote You just answered your own question. And no, I don't think it is the handguard |
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