A few days ago I received my 2x Evolution Weapons System bufferless carrier assemblies.




Included were:
- Extra springs to mess around with upon my request (for my multiple calibers and setups): strongest 1x 8 coil flat main spring, stronger 1x 9 coil flat main spring, lighter 2x 10 coil flat main spring (installed), and lightest 1x RW round main spring, 2x full power round side springs, and 2x lighter round springs (installed). The 10 coil flat main spring and lighter round side springs were the ones I used as they were recommended and pre-installed.  According to EWS, they're still making sure springs are perfected.



- Recoil catch




- End plate assembly






- Completed bolt carrier assembly (retaining pin, firing pin, firing pin safety catch/spring, bolt, proprietary cam pin, slide weight, rear carrier rods)




- 3x allen wrenches for assembly

Along with the springs, the other internals can be subject to change in the future.

There's a few things EWS doesn't tell you or about in the website,nothing's that I learned, and things that EWS taught me in our interactions. Here are those things:

- Entire assembly is free floated in the upper as a result of the 2 side springs and 1 main spring tension.

- There's a recoil catch that keeps hammer from hitting the springs, prevents carrier overtravel, reduces carrier jiggle in the upper, and fixes carrier/spring misalignment during fire. All of this creates a smoother recoil feeling and ensures consistency. This gets placed and screwed into the upper, just enough to not be popped out by a finger.




- There's a spring-tensioned slide weight at the end of the carrier that creates a deadblow effect.  This effectively reduces bolt bouce, slows dwell time, and helps feed mags with lighter springs.  This mechanism is held in place by the gas key and can only be removed if the key is removed.  It interfaces with a spring that keeps forward tension into the carrier.




- There's a firing pin spring mechanism similar to those seen in the IWI Tavor, HK416, Sig MCX, and 9mm platforms. The mechanism has a spring that interfaces with the catch that then interfaces with the firing pin.  The slide weight holds the firing mechanism from falling out.  When the slight weight is removed, so can the spring/catch.



- The system does work with the law tactical folder

Now on to first shots:
1. I only ran about 35 rounds because my Elftmann triggers have been giving me issues with light primer strikes. I fired 4 Fed 5.56 brass 55gr green tip FMJ and 3 of them LPS. I fired about 30ish Tul 223 steel and 2 of 30 were LPS. I can confirm these issues were 100% as a result of my Elftmann trigger and have contacted Elftmann to get it replaced as I was having issues before I installed this system.

2.  Most mags work, but I reached out to EWS and they told me that the only ones they've tested that didn't work (besides those Chinese crapmags) were Hexmags. They actually told me this months back, but I had forgot about it so I asked them again.  I tried various generations of PMAGs and had zero feeding issues. I did try a Hexmag just in case and it didn't work, as expected.

3.  Spring sproing sound is non-existent.

4.  I followed their instructions and adjusted my gas block all the way down and slowly crept the screw forward. When gas was dialed in to my liking, it shot perfectly somewhere between 3:00 - 4:30.

5.  I hadn't installed a stock yet, so it's hard for me to gauge perceived or felt recoil as a result of the system. What I can say is I test both one handed and two handed with the handguard removed for testing purposes because my gas block set screws cannot be accessed with the handguard on.  From what I can tell given what I have so far, thing was probably the lightest recoil I've experienced. I have experience with captured recoil springs, light springs, light buffers, hydraulic buffers, different lightweight carriers, adjustable gas blocks/gas keys, and piston vs. DI. I can't wait to try all this with my handguard and stock installed.  Keep in mind, I tested this on a lightweight AR15 build with a VG6 Epsilon Ti muzzle brake w/o a stock and handguard.

6.  Charging the carrier is smooth. At the 90ish% mark it needs a little extra "umph" if charging slowly.

7.  Installation was a breeze. Took maybe 5 min max after I remove my buffer tube assembly from my previous build.  To install the carrier, the front/rear pivot pin need to be removed and the upper needs to be slid forward.



I will try to keep this updated as I put more rounds through it.

*UPDATE: 06.23.2020*






*UPDATE: 07.01.2020*






*UPDATE: 07.03.2020*

Cool.

Would be great if you could post an update after a few thousand rounds.

That was the plan, but my trigger was failing me hard.

How much?

I have always wanted a way to make ARs shorter. I have a Law, I have SBRs,  but never found something worth the price or trouble

Good deal.  Thanks for the insight.  I've got one on order and am eager for it to arrive.

The slide weight that's only connection is the gas key concerns me.

What do you mean?

The slide weight doesn't touch the gas key at all. Underneath the gas key are cuts where all the interaction occurs.

I don't understand how it is supposed to offer any dead blow affect. Is there really any room for it to do so with the whole setup? It really comes across as a carbine weight buffer and super duper heavy spring combination. Not saying it won't work, that kind of combination has worked and can work, just that it's not optimal, if that's what really going on with this new all in one bolt carrying buffer group.

I can't really speak for any of that deadblow effect as longevity of use will earn it's weight in gold.  It would be cool to be able to remove the weight and change it out as we would see fit. Like changing it to a titanium weight vs tungsten weight, vs aluminum weight or changing out the spring.

However I can tell you that it doesn't feel like the springs are heavy at all. It feels maybe a slight amount more heavy than a carbine spring or about the same, with a slight "hump" at the end when charging.  Not like a hydraulic buffer "hump" . It's not quite Sprinco white, but it's not even close to Sprinco blue.  The feeling kind of reminds me of the Armaspec silent captured springs with less tension than the carbine version.  I haven't tried the other springs as I only had the lightest main flat wires installed and also lightest side springs installed. I'm 100% to say that I can't really describe how it feels to charge the system or how the recoil feels. It's not bad by any means. It's different. I haven't had enough time and rounds through it take make a final assessment, hence my first impressions thus far.

That was another point I was going to ask about as well, if the slide weight is interchangable with other ones as changing buffer weight is about the quickest, easiest and cheapest way to adjust cycling issues.

I mean 35ish rounds isn't a lot but the only issues I had were with Hexmags. I already went into it knowing it wouldn't work though.  As to how much it weighs, it's not a lot but it seems to be enough have an effect from the amount of force the weight exerts.

I did reach out to EWS and they said it's 4140 chromoly and they wanted to try tungsten because it seemed the most idea but 1. It is brittle during impact and 2. Expensive 3. Hard to machine.

The kit looks like it's pretty high quality. Have they made any claims about durability/round count testing? I'm pretty impressed with how short it is and it's compatibility with Sig pic rail stocks, etc. Can orders/preorders still be made?

You can't right now because they're going to offer their own dust cover eventually.  It's to my understanding the rods go right through that area.  I'll ask what the idea behind extra ports are.

I actually had a chance to shoot this again yesterday because I got my replacement triggers. I had 0 issues with steel or federal xm193 and shot a couple hundred rounds.  I brought a lot lightweight ARs with me and this AR had the smallest recoil out of all of the guns I brought, about 1/3 of my MCX Rattler 5.56. It fired between 3-430o'clock and had zero issues. Mind you, still didn't have my handguard or stock on it (all the Sig minimalists are out of stock).

I'm very impressed so far and excited to out everything back together.

I think the guy I've been talking to said he's ran 6k through his personal one. He's said the reason why it's taking so long to release for most is because they keep testing and making improvements.

I'd rather that then they go the Desert Tech route and release a hot pile.

I'm getting more and more excited

When they told me they believe felt recoil is better, I didn't believe them. They don't claim it on their website. My above build is a lightweight AR so being that it is 4 LBS before the stock and it feels this good, I can't wait to get my JMAC Customs stock and really test this baby out.  The stock weighs around 10-11ish oz

Didn't realize they were shipping, been ~12 years since I built my first bufferless upper, guess i should have gone all in back then

Green handguard guy? Think I remember.

Went through a few iterations
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I wrote them an email, but haven't got a response. It would be awesome if I could call and talk to a person at EWS about this stuff. Anyway, maybe someone in here knows the answers, or maybe EWS is in here. Here are my questions:

1) Are any of these BCGs in stock at this time? Will the order be fulfilled within 8-10 weeks of order placement, as it says on the site, or could it take longer?

2) Will the system work with the Q Honey Badger 7" 300 Blackout barrel with pistol length gas tube and adjustable gas block assembly, or do you suspect it would need a different gas "Pig Tail" tube for reliable tuning?

3) I noticed the BCG doesn't work with standard AR dust covers. Is an ejection port dust cover being developed that will work in conjunction with the EWS BCG?

1.  I don't think so. I was one of the first pre-orders when the website wasn't being offered to the public.

2.  I asked them this question previously. 300 BLK pistol needs an adjustable gas block or gas key + special springs. Essentially, the same one mine is set up with. It should also function with 7.62x39 and mid length setups as well.

3.  They told me they were developing a specific polymer or aluminum dust cover, but they wanted to fulfill shipments first.  There's not a lot of R&D with a dust cover in comparison to a bolt carrier, being that it either works or doesn't work with 1 carrier (EWS)

It's just a separate weight on the carrier that is still moving after the forward half of the carrier/bolt goes into battery, so bolt bounce has to work against that as well as the energy transferred into the carrier once the weight impacts it. Think the tungsten fillings in an H&K bolt carrier, there's not a lot of space for them to shift around in, either.

I just ordered one of those JMAC folding stocks for one of my setups (14.5 p/w in OP). Should be in (hopefully) by next week. If so, I'll be recording some video of the system soon.

Thanks for making this post and being a guinea pig. I'm very interested. Although I feel like the benefits of this will not really shine until we see more options in terms of collapsible braces. An mp5 style brace with carbon fiber rods could be lightweight and allow for an ar pistol configured with one of these to go ultra compact..

The folding stock and braces are a cool feature and is why I purchased it to begin with.

However, now that I've used this, I would almost rather have as a replacement over a traditional carrier specifically because of recoil impulse. It is that good.

Pretty innovative. Just when yout think the AR has reached its pinnacle, someone pushes the envelope further.

Yes and no. This design borrows a lot from the Sig MPX/MCX and the FN SCAR. It is cool that they adapted those design principles for the AR though. The first time I took apart my MPX I thought it would be cool if someone did this for an AR.

Thanks to the OP for all the info. I was looking at these the other day while planning a short AR build. The receiver extension, buffer and spring has always been the Achilles heal of the AR when it comes to making them shorter. Maxim has solved parts of this with their stock/buffer combo but its still hanging out there. Nothing like a true folder to really shorten things up.

Good to know about the dust cover. My build is a slick side upper without so it would be perfect for that.

I actually have an MCX Rattler 300 BLK/5.56. It actually is nothing like that. The MCX 2 spring design sits above the carrier, where this has 3 springs and sits behind and goes through he inside of the carrier. I don't know anything about the scar system. I would say MCX has harsher recoil by about 1.5-2x this, which isn't much given that it's a nice shooting platform.

I get my new stock Thursday so I'm excited to take pics once installed

That was my favorite build thread on ar15.com

Still to this day I like to see pictures posted of it and would one day like to be able to build one like it.

Which stock did you get? Is it this one?
https://www.jmac-customs.com/ss-8-skeleton-stock-8/

Gotta say it does look nice and appears lightweight as well. It says 5.3 oz but I'm guessing that doesn't include the mounting parts to attach it...what does it all add up to? Curious how much the bufferless BCG parts weigh as well

I got the SS8R. I think my lightweight build will be right around 5lbs. If you scroll to the OP I have the weights up there.

What’s the price point on one of these?

This is exciting for sure, keep us updated.

This has potential.

Not knowing exactly how the mechanics work, but would a piston conversion kit work with this?  I.e. an oprod and bolt on gas key replacement. Or does it “require” gas to operate the mechanism?

Piston would get rid of burnt debris on the lower and bolt assembly area, dramatically improving life and cleaning interval since you could grease the wear surfaces and it stays put.  Thats what I do with my Osprey Pistons with 5.45 corrosive.

Also eliminates 100% of gas cloud near your face when shooting suppressed.

Looks very clever and unique, nice work Evolving the platform!

I was one of many asking you to.

Allows your 14.5 to be a truck gun? Tamer recoil? It's cool?


I have the second one I purchased just lying there collecting dirt. I'm thinking of putting an Adam Arms strike key there with 180k psi and 170k psi McMaster screws (with those zinc plating) in so it doesn't shear. And then I'm thinking of having Superlative Arms make me a custom op rod that's flat to strike the surface. I'm already having them make me a pistol op rod for a pistol build.

Problem with doing this, is if it fails it is a potential if being a $600 mistake (could ruin upper, EWS buffer, op rod, and strike key). I don't mind being a guinea pig if y'all don't mind fronting the difference, lol.

The potential issue i see is carrier tilt, since there is no bolt tail to limit it.
The short carrier may dig into the upper and bind on the springs.

If they say not to use unrestricted pistol or carbine gas due to potential damage then a piston is probably out too.

If this ends up working with the Gibbz non-reciprocating side charging uppers my wallet is in for some serious pain

I don't see why it wouldn't.

I verified pistol, carbine, rifle length, and mid length is fine as long as there's an adjustable gas block. No pigtails.

I could see carrier tilt becoming a potential issue as well.

It does work.

It came early today. Stock was 10.4 oz and total rifle weight w/ buis is 4 lbs 11.1 oz. The aluminum end cap they're coming out with will knock about 1 oz down.

@ahrion I sent you a PM.

Someone asked about this system on Small Arms Solutions Q&A lastnight..coincidence? Lol.

Just waiting for more reports of reliability...

*UPDATE: 07.03.2020*
Before today I only had a couple of hundred rounds through this. Now I have about 300 or 400 or so. It was around 3:00 for ejection and I would have felt better being at around 400ish, but I didn't have the tools to adjust the gas with me.  The hogue grip was weird for me and I will probably replace for a more vertical grip because of the 8" stock.

I don't do videos often and my first attempt I forgot to hit record so you didn't see the full extent of 150ish rounds. I understand I am wordy and talk a lot so you don't need to remind me of that or the fact that I say "uhm" a lot.

Was this at the Rio Puerco?

I'm not from NM so I'm not familiar with the names. It was by 66 on the prison side.

EWS says you just use a pigtail gas tube on pistol length barrels, but have you tried seeing what happens if you just use an adjustable gas block?

I asked them a couple days ago and they told me it's not necessary. Adjustable gas block is fine. I wish there was a low profile pigtail gas tube setup available so I can test. Pigtails are currently pretty cheap.

I'm gonna test my SS 5R 7.62x39 9" pistol eventually.