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Posted: 2/6/2021 7:43:46 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 2/6/2021 7:51:52 PM EDT
[#2]
You answered your own question. If you want it “bomb proof” you’re going to pay for it.
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Posted: 2/6/2021 7:54:40 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 2/7/2021 12:03:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Camping world has the P4 for $649 and free shipping. Not great but not terrible for prices these days.
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Posted: 2/7/2021 1:25:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Camping world has the P4 for $649 and free shipping. Not great but not terrible for prices these days. P4XI @ BattleHawk Armory $600 + $15 shipping - Not bad either, considering... |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 4:04:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: P4XI @ BattleHawk Armory $600 + $15 shipping - Not bad either, considering... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Camping world has the P4 for $649 and free shipping. Not great but not terrible for prices these days. P4XI @ BattleHawk Armory $600 + $15 shipping - Not bad either, considering... To think they use to be in the $400's. There are some other good options but not even as cheap as the P4 |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 8:00:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To think they use to be in the $400's. There are some other good options but not even as cheap as the P4 When I bought mine in Dec. of 2018 it was $589, but included a Midwest Industries 30mm Q/D scope mount. Personally for me at the new $800 price they are overpriced, but at 600-650 they are still worth it. That price puts it near the Gen II Viper 1-6 as well as a number of other quality LPVO. The Viper is heavier and goes to 6x, but I still feel the glass is better on the Steiner and the dot is brighter. Since I bought the Steiner it has lived on the same 10.5" SBR'd upper. My Viper I keep moving to different rifles to find where I like it the best. |
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Posted: 2/9/2021 4:09:21 AM EDT
[#8]
I've been dreaming that somebody produces a modernized Elcan (lightened, better mount, 4"+ eye relief). All they keep putting out every year is the same LPVO package but up the top end magnification at the expense of eyebox and worse 1x or low light capability. With all the interest in pistols, SBR's, & pin/weld 14.5" we could use an updated fast, clear, compact 1x-4x. How about a Nightforce at half the size, weight, and mag range of the NX8?
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Posted: 2/9/2021 4:28:36 AM EDT
[#9]
For the past year, every time someone asks this question, I recommend the Burris XTR II 1-5, which was heavily discounted after the 1-8 came out.
Seems like they are finally all gone. |
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Posted: 2/9/2021 9:35:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Supposed 'bombproof' and steiner p4xi are not mutual, per extensive user feedback.
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Posted: 2/9/2021 10:50:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been dreaming that somebody produces a modernized Elcan (lightened, better mount, 4"+ eye relief). All they keep putting out every year is the same LPVO package but up the top end magnification at the expense of eyebox and worse 1x or low light capability. With all the interest in pistols, SBR's, & pin/weld 14.5" we could use an updated fast, clear, compact 1x-4x. How about a Nightforce at half the size, weight, and mag range of the NX8? Yeah I'd be in for that 
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Posted: 2/9/2021 2:00:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the past year, every time someone asks this question, I recommend the Burris XTR II 1-5, which was heavily discounted after the 1-8 came out. Seems like they are finally all gone. Awesome scope |
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Posted: 2/9/2021 4:23:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the past year, every time someone asks this question, I recommend the Burris XTR II 1-5, which was heavily discounted after the 1-8 came out. Seems like they are finally all gone. I think you pushed me over the edge, glad I own one, thanks. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:21:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryThanks for posting that! |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 3:57:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for posting that! Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for posting that! Thank you for making it! 
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Posted: 2/23/2021 5:17:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the past year, every time someone asks this question, I recommend the Burris XTR II 1-5, which was heavily discounted after the 1-8 came out. Seems like they are finally all gone. That was the answer. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 9:05:47 PM EDT
[#17]
A lightweight 1-4 with HD glass, daylight bright illumination, off settings between levels,, and a compact length would be my dream optic. Throw in a modified German #4 with low profile BDC hash marks added and I'd drool.
Most people are shooting LPVO's at 100 yards off a rest so 1-10 will unfortunately become the new standard. The P4xi is your closest choice, but it's a rip off now. The Accupoint fails your illumination standards but might be worth trying. |
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Posted: 2/23/2021 9:15:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Trijicon AccuPoint TR24 1-4x is basically this.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:02:01 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Trijicon AccuPoint TR24 1-4x is basically this. Not daylight bright |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:28:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the past year, every time someone asks this question, I recommend the Burris XTR II 1-5, which was heavily discounted after the 1-8 came out. Seems like they are finally all gone. How the hell was this made years ago, discontinued, and now no one makes something similar. It truly is an awesome sope. I think part of the answer is that, like an above poster said, most people shoot from a bench and just want more and more mag. For those who want something that works as a CQB gun with reach I guess we are still searching. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:53:42 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the past year, every time someone asks this question, I recommend the Burris XTR II 1-5, which was heavily discounted after the 1-8 came out. Seems like they are finally all gone. I still love my XTR-14... |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 12:11:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not daylight bright It is and it isn't. I had a 1.25-4 Accupoint ages ago. If I was shooting from under an awning it wouldn't be red dot bright at all but was still obviously red. Shooting in the open even on a cloudy day it lit up decent enough, but electronic illumination will always be superior. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 12:47:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How the hell was this made years ago, discontinued, and now no one makes something similar. It truly is an awesome sope. I think part of the answer is that, like an above poster said, most people shoot from a bench and just want more and more mag. For those who want something that works as a CQB gun with reach I guess we are still searching. The Burris XTR 1-5 was an awesome scope but a tad heavy and long for what it was. It would have done much better if it had a 6x top end now that everyone nowadays is fixated on more and more mag whether they need it or not. The $450 clearance price was an absolute steal for them and it's ridiculous that nobody can replicate the nuclear bright etched reticle illumination 5 years later in a scope that's not $1500. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 2:28:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: It is and it isn't. I had a 1.25-4 Accupoint ages ago. If I was shooting from under an awning it wouldn't be red dot bright at all but was still obviously red. Shooting in the open even on a cloudy day it lit up decent enough, but electronic illumination will always be superior. When it comes to true LVPO it ieither is.... or is not.... There is no try. It's the whole point of a LVPO... Look at a S&B Short dot... the grand father of all LVPO's. And the bench mark for daylight illumination. Trijicon is not trying... all those ACOG contracts makes them fat and happy.... But I betcha if Big Army put out a solicitation and that was one of the requirments, they would. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 2:48:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Trijicon has a new dot illuminated 1-6 Creedo HX.
https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/crhx624-c-2900018 I am told it is nuclear bright. They finally are trying. I have two on the way now. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 2:52:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I have several guns set up with the Razor 1-6 HD. I have a couple guns that I would like to set up with simple 1-4 LPVO. Here is what I would like: 1-4x Cross hair reticle that doesn’t require illumination at 1x Daylight bright dot illumination Razor type illumination control, no push buttons Bomb proof Razor durability No forward illumination signature The closest thing I can find is the Steiner. But, they want a ridiculous price for it now. Any suggestions? Steiner is $589 shipped from DVOR (gotta sign up) Also, Trijicon Credo HX 1-6. Check out the Trijicon Credo thread.... The Credo 1-6 HX SFP dot illumination is different (BETTER) than the other Credo/Accupowers. As far as bombproof, it is Trijicon, LOW Japanese made, so some boxes are checked but it is new, so??? |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 2:58:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Cordrew - your comments helped me decide to order two of the Creedo HX 1-6 dot illuminated scopes in green this morning.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 4:44:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When it comes to true LVPO it ieither is.... or is not.... There is no try. It's the whole point of a LVPO... Look at a S&B Short dot... the grand father of all LVPO's. And the bench mark for daylight illumination. Trijicon is not trying... all those ACOG contracts makes them fat and happy.... But I betcha if Big Army put out a solicitation and that was one of the requirments, they would. I'll put it this way. It will almost always have the illumination level you need, but it will never be capable of more than that. Any instance where you need a Razor on 11, the Trijicon is going to be daylight bright. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 4:48:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When it comes to true LVPO it ieither is.... or is not.... There is no try. It's the whole point of a LVPO... Look at a S&B Short dot... the grand father of all LVPO's. And the bench mark for daylight illumination. Trijicon is not trying... all those ACOG contracts makes them fat and happy.... But I betcha if Big Army put out a solicitation and that was one of the requirments, they would. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 5:27:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cordrew - your comments helped me decide to order two of the Creedo HX 1-6 dot illuminated scopes in green this morning. Cool, I expect you'll like them. I really like mine. I just posted some pictures in the Credo thread for reference |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:08:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: I'll put it this way. It will almost always have the illumination level you need, but it will never be capable of more than that. Any instance where you need a Razor on 11, the Trijicon is going to be daylight bright. That mental gymnastics to say it's not truly Daylight bright. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:08:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Is that not what happened when they chose the Sig Tango6T 1-6x? And Trijicon did not get the award.... 
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:56:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most people are shooting LPVO's at 100 yards off a rest so 1-10 will unfortunately become the new standard. 
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:20:23 PM EDT
[#34]
The dot LED version is nuclear bright just like the Razor 1-6. The segmented circle versions are not good.
The dot LED puts Trijicon in the LPVO game. Finally. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:25:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That mental gymnastics to say it's not truly Daylight bright. In daylight, it's daylight bright. Fiber optics aren't that hard to figure out. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:35:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Credo seems very underrated. The glass is amazing, I have faith in the company and it's durability. Day light bright? Maybe not the top tier, but damn it's got to be close?
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:36:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For every person shooting on the move there's probably 100 with LPVO's that have never shot anywhere but a static range. I know you shoot 3 gun a lot. Do you think a 10x optic with a 24mm (or even 30mm) objective is going to be superior for most courses? If I'm dropping down to the dirt to fire a few rounds at 300 yards, I'm not going to flip it to 10X. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:57:06 PM EDT
[#38]
THE DOT VERSION IS DAYLIGHT BRIGHT.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:00:36 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And Trijicon did not get the award.... no shit Sherlock. But you're the one implying Big Army never put out the solicitation I really don't care who won. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:07:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For every person shooting on the move there's probably 100 with LPVO's that have never shot anywhere but a static range. I know you shoot 3 gun a lot. Do you think a 10x optic with a 24mm (or even 30mm) objective is going to be superior for most courses? If I'm dropping down to the dirt to fire a few rounds at 300 yards, I'm not going to flip it to 10X. My primary optics are 1-6. I don’t feel the need to upgrade yet to a 1-10. A 1-10 has additional utility but at a cost of $. The Razor 1-10 FFP would have the same performance at 3 or 6x as my Razor 1-6, except for the reticle differences of FFP vs. SFP. People shooting at a bench at 100 yards are equally suited with a 3-9 or 4-12. But there is very little degradation of performance of the 100 yard paper shooter of a good 1-6 vs a good 3-9. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:09:31 AM EDT
[#41]
I have shot in low light at matches with my 1-6 with a 24mm objective.
I have never had a problem resolving targets. The difference is academic. There is a 5 minute window of twilight where a larger objective lens gives better performance. After that 5 minutes, break out the NODs. If that is your metric for performance... ok. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:42:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have shot in low light at matches with my 1-6 with a 24mm objective. I have never had a problem resolving targets. The difference is academic. There is a 5 minute window of twilight where a larger objective lens gives better performance. After that 5 minutes, break out the NODs. If that is your metric for performance... ok. We were talking about 1-10's and eye boxes I thought. If I'm shooting from 0 to 300 yards, I don't need or want the weight, bulk, or even cost associated with mitigating those things to run higher magnification in an LPVO. Plinkers want more and more magnification and they want it out of LPVO's. Meanwhile the guys who want superlight run and gun stuff get neglected. It's economics that doesn't work out in our favor and I can't hate on that, but for 0-300 I'd rather have a lightweight compact 1-4 than a big and heavy, or significantly expensive 1-10. (And the Gen III had to be made by Skynet in 2046 or some shit and will never be the norm.) |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 4:47:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We were talking about 1-10's and eye boxes I thought. If I'm shooting from 0 to 300 yards, I don't need or want the weight, bulk, or even cost associated with mitigating those things to run higher magnification in an LPVO. Plinkers want more and more magnification and they want it out of LPVO's. Meanwhile the guys who want superlight run and gun stuff get neglected. It's economics that doesn't work out in our favor and I can't hate on that, but for 0-300 I'd rather have a lightweight compact 1-4 than a big and heavy, or significantly expensive 1-10. (And the Gen III had to be made by Skynet in 2046 or some shit and will never be the norm.) Yeah i can see your point about wanting a lighter and less expensive 1-4. I will accept more weight for optical performance and cut weight elsewhere if necessary. Different strokes for different folks. |
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