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Posted: 3/15/2024 12:55:07 AM EDT
Ì have an 11.3 AR, ballistic advantage 1/7 twist barrel, what would be some good defensive ammo for this barrel length?
All I have is standard 55 gr 5.56 and 223, green tip, and 75gr TAP ammo. |
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The interweb says heavier rounds like 75/77gr are the right choice.
That being said human body doesn’t like holes ![]() There’re some good gel test vids on YouTube they’re worth watching |
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My 11.5 stays loaded with the Hornady 75gr SBR load
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Quoted: Ì have an 11.3 AR, ballistic advantage 1/7 twist barrel, what would be some good defensive ammo for this barrel length? All I have is standard 55 gr 5.56 and 223, green tip, and 75gr TAP ammo. View Quote |
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Quoted: The interweb says heavier rounds like 75/77gr are the right choice. That being said human body doesn’t like holes ![]() There’re some good gel test vids on YouTube they’re worth watching View Quote In my testing on large northern whitetails, 77gr TMKs to the chest out of shortys are devastating. Match the projectile to your needs - ex: obviously bonded if you need more penetration, etc. There are a ton of great projectiles these days. ![]() ![]() ![]() Top is last year's buck, middle is a yote from a week or so ago, bottom is last year's buck. All 77gr TMKs. It's my standard deer and yote hunting ammo. Deer hunting here it is only legal in pistol form, and those are out of a 10.5" barrel. |
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I have several mags of both Black Hills 50g TSX or Federal 64g TBBC. I’m comfortable with either.
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Any purpose built SD round will be fine.
I prefer 77 or 75 gr OTMs out of my 10.5". 75 TAP is one. If you can find 75 TAP get it. I still working through some IMI 77gr. Nothing wrong with good 62gr or 68gr SD loads. |
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We tested loads to FBI protocols for our SBRs and settled on 75gr Gold Dot for the department
Several loads performed well and since most police work would be shots inside 100y any good defense ammo should work fine. Shot placement is obviously key but the heavier rounds 62-77gr seem to perform the best |
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Quoted: My 11.5 stays loaded with the Hornady 75gr SBR load View Quote |
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Quoted: In my testing on large northern whitetails, 77gr TMKs to the chest out of shortys are devastating. Match the projectile to your needs - ex: obviously bonded if you need more penetration, etc. There are a ton of great projectiles these days. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481528/20240226_112618_jpg-3160013.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481528/1000003827_jpg-3160014.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481528/1000002042_jpg-3160017.JPG Top is last year's buck, middle is a yote from a week or so ago, bottom is last year's buck. All 77gr TMKs. It's my standard deer and yote hunting ammo. Deer hunting here it is only legal in pistol form, and those are out of a 10.5" barrel. View Quote I really wish PSA would start making their 77gr TMK again. I got some last summer and haven't seen it since. OP 77gr is a great choice, TMK is ideal, but OTM is good, too. |
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I’ve got a mag of the PSA 75 gr Hornady bullet in my 14.5 HD gun . I figured it would give someone pause .
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Pretty much any of it is going to wreck someone's day.
M193 is pretty devastating on soft targets out to fragmentation range. And pretty cheap to train with. The 62 grain M855ish stuff is better for some scenarios, but worse against soft targets. For 5.56 I would choose a fragmenting round design over an expanding round design for home and personal defense. |
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AAC 75 gr Hornady BTHP consistently chrono very close to 2,500 FPS in my 11.5" Criterion using a Labradar I'm really impressed with the velocity and accuracy for the price, I think I paid around $12/box.
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At home defense distances, loss in velocity of the 11.3 barrel is not a factor.
ANY ammo is going to be more than effective at across the room distances. Purpose built hunting/ self defense ammo as well as 55 gr FMJ is going to be devastating. Also 11.3 will double as a flame thrower. |
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All the same rounds that are best for a 16" or 10.5" barrel...
77 TMK loads 62 Gold Dot loads 75/77 BTHP loads Etc. |
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Speer Gold Dot 75 or BH MK262.
With a 50 yard zero with the GD, I can hit steel with either at 200 easily with similar POA/POI (the 262 was hitting higher at 200 though) Out of a BCM 11.5 SS410: GD75 2302.2 FPS 12.3 STD MK262 2521.2 FPS 25.1 STD |
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Simply define your scope of engagement, such as within 100 yards, find loadings maintaining above 2200 FPS impact velocity at that distance, and seek a bullet construction demonstrated to achieve reliable and ideal performance at that velocity. For this reason I exclude many heavier bullet loads in short barrels, such as the Hornady SBR loading because it is literally pistol performance in tissue past contact distance, as it starts out with a muzzle velocity just above 2200 fps in a short barrel. The 62 gr Speer Gold Dot is my go-to for a shorter barrel.
OTMs, FMJ, cup&core SPs, and monolithic copper bullets (at slow speeds) are generally outclassed by a huge margin if you are using a short barrel and can compare to bonded and tipped projectiles, such as Gold Dots and the 77 TMK. |
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Quoted: Ì have an 11.3 AR, ballistic advantage 1/7 twist barrel, what would be some good defensive ammo for this barrel length? All I have is standard 55 gr 5.56 and 223, green tip, and 75gr TAP ammo. View Quote I like browntip and mk318mod0. |
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Quoted: I really wish PSA would start making their 77gr TMK again. I got some last summer and haven't seen it since. OP 77gr is a great choice, TMK is ideal, but OTM is good, too. View Quote Has it been confirmed that PSA stopped making the TMK? You can get the 75gr BTHP all you want (which is good, it's a fine round) but the TMK is unobtainium, a long with their TSX 70gr. Any particular reason for that? |
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Quoted: Has it been confirmed that PSA stopped making the TMK? You can get the 75gr BTHP all you want (which is good, it's a fine round) but the TMK is unobtainium, a long with their TSX 70gr. Any particular reason for that? View Quote Just because it isn’t in stock for consumer purchase does not mean they quit making it. This is how bad rumors start. |
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I’ve shot lots of guys with m855 in a mk18 but I do have a case of m855a1 and 3 cases of 62 grain gold dots.
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In order i would go with
77 gr tmk 70 gr tsx 77 gr otm 75 gr 62 gr gold dot Then after that doesn't really matter. The 70 gr tsx is a great round that gets overlooked quiet a bit. |
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Quoted: 55gr softpoints. View Quote The vast majority of 55 grain soft points, and all that are not of bonded construction and specifically designed for penetration, will under penetrate. Some will only penetrate in the 6-8" range. It is a bad idea to just flat out reccomend 55 grain softpoints as a whole for self defense. Now, if we are talking Federal TBBC bullets or Gold Dots, that is another story. But the average Remington or Hornady 55 grain soft point is a horrible choice. |
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Quoted: Ì have an 11.3 AR, ballistic advantage 1/7 twist barrel, what would be some good defensive ammo for this barrel length? All I have is standard 55 gr 5.56 and 223, green tip, and 75gr TAP ammo. View Quote If by defensive ammo, you mean what you're gonna grab when something goes bump in the night and your choice is an 11.5" AR, my major concern would be not blowing out my eyes and ears when I set that thing off in the hallway. This really isn't anything to tear your hair out about. Pick something that is reliable that you can afford to practice with. Lots of good 62s out there that will make a mess at close distances. Plain old M855 does a pretty good job. I keep a bunch of AAC 62gr sabre blade around. It's cheap enough to shoot regularly and it acts a lot like M855 which you can shoot most of the time. At the very least, get something that closely mimics what you shoot a lot of. POA = POI. |
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My Winchester USA3162W ammo. Does 2650fps out of my CZ Bren 2Ms 11.3" barrel.
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75gr TAP is a great non barrier load I keep some on hand. 77gr TMK is also great for that and is more consistent. Definitely look at getting some Barrier blind ammo. Something like rounds mentioned by others in this thread such as bonded soft points like 55gr TBBC, 62gr Gold dot/ fusion or 62gr TBBC. Solid copper HPs are another option that preform well such as TSX or GMX. Me personally I prefer bonded soft points and after researching terminal ballistics and trying them in my Rifles I settle on 75gr Gold Dot. It’s not as easy to come by as 62gr but worth buying when it’s available. Definitely don’t listen to those who have suggested M855 ( green tip), lightweight or mid weight OTM, HP, PT or any type of Varmint/ Frangible ammo.
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Quoted: The vast majority of 55 grain soft points, and all that are not of bonded construction and specifically designed for penetration, will under penetrate. Some will only penetrate in the 6-8" range. It is a bad idea to just flat out reccomend 55 grain softpoints as a whole for self defense. Now, if we are talking Federal TBBC bullets or Gold Dots, that is another story. But the average Remington or Hornady 55 grain soft point is a horrible choice. View Quote ![]() .223 gel test: Hornady 55 gr soft point The 55gr Hornady performs perfectly in an 11.5 |
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View Quote 1. That appears to be handloaded, not commercially available, ammo. 2. In any case, 10.7" or 12.1" of penetration is "perfect"? |
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Quoted: 1. That appears to be handloaded, not commercially available, ammo. 2. In any case, 10.7" or 12.1" of penetration is "perfect"? View Quote The bullet doesn’t know it was hand loaded. Factory loading is about 100fps slower so will get even deeper penetration. And yes 12” is more than adequate. That is a widely accepted number as adequate. Regardless, it’s not 6-8” and it’s far from a horrible choice. |
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Quoted: The bullet doesn’t know it was hand loaded. Factory loading is about 100fps slower so will get even deeper penetration. And yes 12” is more than adequate. That is a widely accepted number as adequate. Regardless, it’s not 6-8” and it’s far from a horrible choice. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: 1. That appears to be handloaded, not commercially available, ammo. 2. In any case, 10.7" or 12.1" of penetration is "perfect"? The bullet doesn’t know it was hand loaded. Factory loading is about 100fps slower so will get even deeper penetration. And yes 12” is more than adequate. That is a widely accepted number as adequate. Regardless, it’s not 6-8” and it’s far from a horrible choice. 12 inches isnt more than adequate. It's barely adequate. |
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Quoted: Ask the FBI. Rifle ammunition should perform at least as well as pistol ammunition in order to incapacitate: penetrate 12"-18". Same threat, same organs in same locations. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Why do you think that it isn't? Ask the FBI. Rifle ammunition should perform at least as well as pistol ammunition in order to incapacitate: penetrate 12"-18". Same threat, same organs in same locations. If only the bad guys were static and facing directly at the muzzle in defensive situations, right? ![]() |
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View Quote velocity is key to rifle-level wounding v. Just pistol type wounds. 2200 FPS seems to be the floor. many heavy loads, like the 77s, have low velocity to start with out of a short barrel and that really limits their effective range. I use Hornady 55 SP (only hornady) or hot loaded 55 FMJ out of short rifles |
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